T5: Morrow Project & All Others

[mhwittek]

After having a discussion over a cup of coffee, it occurred to me that one aspect of Traveller is not talked about to frequently. That is Marc's original concept for Traveller long before the publications of all the historical iterations of the Imperium. Traveller was a generic set of rules to be used to play any science fiction genre supported through Traveller 's technology levels. For example, stories from Doc Savage to Star Wars to Cyber Punk. During my discussion over coffee, the Traveller fan pondered if we lowered the tech level enough and Traveller was published before D&D, would we be using Traveller mechanics for the fantasy genre? Traveller is a generic universal role playing system with a focus on sci-fi. So, I am going to branch out to other stories starting with Morrow Project with the use of Traveller 5th Edition rules.

I still have much love for the ubiquitous Imperium, but I am going to experiment with Marc's original concept for Traveller. The reason why "Morrow Project is I just acquired a newly published 4th edition of the game, and I have always loved the story, but liked the simplicity of Traveller's mechanics in most editions.

So, your thoughts? Your ideas for T5:Morrow Project or (you fill-in here)? Your insults?

 

[aramis]

After having a discussion over a cup of coffee, it occurred to me that one aspect of Traveller is not talked about to frequently. That is Marc's original concept for Traveller long before the publications of all the historical iterations of the Imperium. Traveller was a generic set of rules to be used to play any science fiction genre supported through Traveller 's technology levels.
[snip]

So, your thoughts? Your ideas for T5:Morrow Project or (you fill-in here)? Your insults?

I'm not so certain. Even in the 1st ed, there is strong setting encoding going on in the Traveller mechanics.

Just as D&D was essentially Dying Earth with Tolkien's races and a touch of Cthulhu and Fafhrd & the Grey Mouser, Traveller looks very much like there was a clear setting type, distinct from everything else, almost a Foundation + Star Wars mash up, with a dose of Starship Troopers.

Yes, it could be adapted to other settings (Trek was a popular choice, for which it was really poorly suited, because the tech scale for trek is about 17-20....), but that doesn't mean that was the intended use.

 

[Dagrill]

I still have much love for the ubiquitous Imperium, but I am going to experiment with Marc's original concept for Traveller. The reason why "Morrow Project is I just acquired a newly published 4th edition of the game, and I have always loved the story, but liked the simplicity of Traveller's mechanics in most editions.

So, your thoughts? Your ideas for T5:Morrow Project or (you fill-in here)? Your insults?

Hi,

I've noticed Mongoose have made Hammer's Slammers, Judge Dread and Babylon 5 versions of their Traveller, so I don't see problem with the concept,
indeed it might be beneficial. I'm not sure if Morrow Project (or T2300) get my vote though as I grew up anticipating nuclear destruction(MAD), so it's not something I'm keen on gaming.

Kind Regards

David

 

[Licheking]

I have always felt that survival settings in particular need more detailed rules not less, so i would think that T5 wouldn't be too good at the Morrow Project. I'm hoping to get my hands on a set of 4th edition MP rules as i love the setting and the rules from the 1st edition the one i currently own.

 

[dalthor]

I have copy 80, out of a total of 100 shrink-wrapped signed editions, for the Morrow Project original edition. This was the loose-leaf version, before TM-1 came out.

Still have all the stuff I could lay my hands on, including the Prime Base module.

Was offered $500 for the signed copy, and have at least one other interested party. Still waiting on the original offer to reply "Yes" to buy; he hasn't come up with the cash yet.

 

[Timerover51]

Hmm, been a while since I had my Morrow Project stuff out, but I thought that the game was interesting, and played some. Problem was finding a competent GM, who did not hand out goodies like demolition packs like candy.

 

[mhwittek]

I'm not so certain. Even in the 1st ed, there is strong setting encoding going on in the Traveller mechanics.

Just as D&D was essentially Dying Earth with Tolkien's races and a touch of Cthulhu and Fafhrd & the Grey Mouser, Traveller looks very much like there was a clear setting type, distinct from everything else, almost a Foundation + Star Wars mash up, with a dose of Starship Troopers.

Yes, it could be adapted to other settings (Trek was a popular choice, for which it was really poorly suited, because the tech scale for trek is about 17-20....), but that doesn't mean that was the intended use.

That is interesting that you pick up on the strong setting in CT. I look at the original three books and I sure get a rather plan and generic story line. I think that the representation of tech levels and higher tech levels then we are with space flight, PMPGs, and self-aware artificial intelligence. I can not speak about The Foundation Trilogy from Issac Asimov, but I can speak for the the other two. If CT ever had a Star Wars or Starship Troopers story line, it was due to the Referee campaign design, and nothing that I read out of the LBB 1 - 3. I think that my first Traveller campaign was more of a mix of Star Wars meets Space Opera.

Now, once the supplements started rolling off the printing press, and every version of Traveller that came since had some variation of the Imperium not just encoded, but built into the Traveller system.

I will have to get your further input on your "dying earth" theory for D&D, but that is off topic.


Regards,

 

[aramis]

That is interesting that you pick up on the strong setting in CT. I look at the original three books and I sure get a rather plan and generic story line. I think that the representation of tech levels and higher tech levels then we are with space flight, PMPGs, and self-aware artificial intelligence. I can not speak about The Foundation Trilogy from Issac Asimov, but I can speak for the the other two. If CT ever had a Star Wars or Starship Troopers story line, it was due to the Referee campaign design, and nothing that I read out of the LBB 1 - 3. I think that my first Traveller campaign was more of a mix of Star Wars meets Space Opera.

Now, once the supplements started rolling off the printing press, and every version of Traveller that came since had some variation of the Imperium not just encoded, but built into the Traveller system.

I will have to get your further input on your "dying earth" theory for D&D, but that is off topic.


Regards,

I see no Story Line in CT 1E - but I do see a lot of setting materials encoded mechanically.

Just from Character generation, the following setting inferences can be made:

• The Army, Marines, and Navy are separate services.
• There is a system of nobility
• There is a draft
• Shiboard combat tends to be right up close and personal
• The Scouts are not a military service, despite the draft
• Pensions based solely upon length of service - this implies pay may likewise be.
• No up-or-out policy, at least for officers
• Most Army and Marine troops do not have significant practical vacuum experience
• The Merchant Spacers are unpopular enough that they, too, are beneficiaries of the Draft
• Organized Crime prevents being drafted.
• Organized crime also participates in a similar pension system, if not the same one, as the military - this implies a universal retirement system that is bought into.
• General medical and longevity seems to cap, and is mostly knowledge based, rather than technology based (since there's no TL effect, and all imperials use the same tables)
• Marines tend to have lots of free time.... and spend a lot of it gambling.
• Marine Armor is either wheeled or tracked, not gravitic
• Army units sometimes use gravitic vehicles.
• Scouts don't use ground vehicles, but use plenty of gravitic ones.
• Merchants, Scouts and Navy can dabble in a lot regardless of educational background.
• Organized Crime tends to not give the uneducated a chance to dabble.
• Army and Marines tend to be pretty focused.
• No one has a whole lot of control over what they do in their jobs.

And that's just HALF of Book 1.

 

[rancke]

I see a lot of generic rules that aren't detailed enough to cover specific settings (without expansion). Also rules that are game artifacts rather than specific to any setting. The Draft is a poster boy for the latter. There may or may not be a draft in any of the military organizations covered by the rules, but the draft in the rules is far more likely to be a game artifact that reflects the vagracies of fate. Fate may force you to "enter" the Others but I can't imagine any Imperial Other Service that gets one sixth of all Imperial draftees. Nor do I believe in an Imperial draft that distributes its intake equally between its six services.

Later writers made the mistake of using the generic rules without considering the ramifications, leading to such strange features as Grand Admirals of the entire Imperium -- of which there may be a few dozen all told -- who were the rank-equivalent of planetary army generals -- of which there must be scores on each high-population world.


Hans

 

[Dagrill]

I see no Story Line in CT 1E - but I do see a lot of setting materials encoded mechanically.

Just from Character generation, the following setting inferences can be made:
And that's just HALF of Book 1.

But that's not a specific setting and can be used as background for pretty much any other SF setting, especially Asimov & Firefly, but Blake's 7 works as well. It's not until HG you get the Big Ships for Star Wars/Trek type games.

To me the supplements and adventures brought the 3I (MM OTU) alive
the 3I has a very cold war feel to it with the human empire surrounded by hostile powers, which is why the breakup shook me, still the same thing happened to the Russian Empire, so Marc is a prophet.

Regards

David

 

[Dagrill]

I see a lot of generic rules that aren't detailed enough to cover specific settings (without expansion). Also rules that are game artifacts rather than specific to any setting. The Draft is a poster boy for the latter. There may or may not be a draft in any of the military organizations covered by the rules, but the draft in the rules is far more likely to be a game artifact that reflects the vagracies of fate. Fate may force you to "enter" the Others but I can't imagine any Imperial Other Service that gets one sixth of all Imperial draftees. Nor do I believe in an Imperial draft that distributes its intake equally between its six services.

Later writers made the mistake of using the generic rules without considering the ramifications, leading to such strange features as Grand Admirals of the entire Imperium -- of which there may be a few dozen all told -- who were the rank-equivalent of planetary army generals -- of which there must be scores on each high-population world.
Hans

Excellent points, I never considered the Draft to be a Draft as such.

In world building specific tables are needed for each type of world. Government should not be 2d-7+population. A low pop world needs to be a
Government type 0, 1, 3, 6 or possibly even an A, B or D for starters,

Regards

David

 

[Timerover51]

In world building specific tables are needed for each type of world. Government should not be 2d-7+population. A low pop world needs to be a
Government type 0, 1, 3, 6 or possibly even an A, B or D for starters,

Regards

David

Depending on how low the population is, types 4, 5, and 7 also would work. I am using basically a Type 5, Feudal Technocracy for a population 4 world I am developing.

Bureaucracies would definitely be a non-starter without fairly high populations, say 6 to 7 as a minimum.

 

[Dagrill]

Depending on how low the population is, types 4, 5, and 7 also would work. I am using basically a Type 5, Feudal Technocracy for a population 4 world I am developing.

Bureaucracies would definitely be a non-starter without fairly high populations, say 6 to 7 as a minimum.

Hmmm, I made the assumption that under 10,000 is a single settlement (or very minor settlements spreading from a centre) 'colony', with a specific type of leader or leadership team, I was thinking 6 would be the default mode, which doesn't give much scope for democracy, similarly not enough infrastructure for a feudal technocracy, but I am conscious that type of government is somewhat open to interpretation.

Also I forgot I was in t5 rather than CT and it's pop +flux, which gives government types 0-5 for a pop 1 world, a 10 person representative democracy a distinct possibility? I think not

Regards

David

 

[Dagrill]

Also I forgot I was in t5 rather than CT and it's pop +flux, which gives government types 0-5 for a pop 1 world, a 10 person representative democracy a distinct possibility? I think not
David

Ahem, 0-7 for a pop 1 world (blushes)

 

[aramis]

Ahem, 0-7 for a pop 1 world (blushes)

Flux is a maximum +5... so 0-6.

 

[Dagrill]

Flux is a maximum +5... so 0-6.

er yes, I knew that, for some reason despite two attempts I couldn't actually type it, embarrassing enough to have to correct it, but to get the correction wrong as well.

David

 

[mhwittek]

Hi,

I've noticed Mongoose have made Hammer's Slammers, Judge Dread and Babylon 5 versions of their Traveller, so I don't see problem with the concept,
indeed it might be beneficial. I'm not sure if Morrow Project (or T2300) get my vote though as I grew up anticipating nuclear destruction(MAD), so it's not something I'm keen on gaming.

Kind Regards

David

Hello David,
I too am a part of the generation that was waiting for the other shoe to drop as it applies to MAD. However, Morrow Project did have an interesting story line, so that is why I am trying that story. My normal Traveller game is with the TNE story arc. I can not get enough of it. If you like the end of the Imperium, TNE has it. If you like more CT-third Imperium, TNE has it with the Regency. And, if you just like to explore or re-explore new planets, well there are a lot of Bone yard planets outside of Coalition Space. TNE, you got to love it!

Regards,
Mike W.

 

[mhwittek]

I have always felt that survival settings in particular need more detailed rules not less, so i would think that T5 wouldn't be too good at the Morrow Project. I'm hoping to get my hands on a set of 4th edition MP rules as i love the setting and the rules from the 1st edition the one i currently own.

Hello Licheking,
I sure agree with you on the MP story line. It was a uniquely done apocalyptic story. And you may be correct on the need for more detailed rules to do the deep dive the Morrow Project story. This is why I would like to try the T5 rules to see if it works. You and I separate ways on the idea on how good the 1st edition rules where. I think that they were so bad that the group in Florida that I played with switched over to GURPS. Makes me wonder though what other stories that Traveller 5 could support.

Game Well,
Mike Wittek

 

[Licheking]

The basic rules set was a little character light, no skills as such, but the combat system was very detailed as was most of the support material, world, groups, radiation etc. GURPS would have been my choice to add skills and a more detailed character system if i was going to convert something to the MP universe but as it is i will wait for a copy of 4th edition to make it to the uk and buy it.

 

[Orionruse]

I think this is a brilliant idea I was just talking to a buddy of mine about this (we have some of the old 2e material) and we were commenting on how cool your idea is.

I think we even have a map of North America, with the locations of some of the major redoubts marked out.