T5 Mayday Kickstarter now live

[K.B.]

Several reasons.

Skepticism is strong due to the organizational and broken combat issues of T5.0, I do so hope Marc has it together.

It is not really a fully new edition and those who have 5.0 will be getting 5.1 pdf files automatically so some might not be as enthusiastic for another physical copy.

I kicked in for the original Kickstarter for several hundred dollars back in 2012 and what I got was highly disappointing and pretty much unusable. I never was able to play it and have been angry about it ever since.

I'm tempted because I LOVED the original Traveller and I still remember when High Guard came out and changed everything for us.... and I'd love to have a solid, updated version of that game but I'm leery that he's not gotten enough feedback and test played this version ---

I really would like to get in on this but I, as you say, am skeptical.... really skeptical.

 

[whartung]

Several reasons.

Skepticism is strong due to the organizational and broken combat issues of T5.0, I do so hope Marc has it together.

Wait, you haven't seen it?

Are you not a beta player? I mean, honestly, at this point, the PDFs should be DONE, and now it's just a matter of getting things ready for printing or the most minor of edits.

It would behoove the effort if some "independent" reviewers can speak to the quality of the product, given all of the skepticism around it. (And yes, I'd consider most any one here independent -- Aramis, Robject, etc.).

If the Beta group is still under NDA, that should be lifted to promote this thing, frankly.

There's no reason they should not have "pretty darn final" PDF galleys to look over and comment upon.

 

[aramis]

I do have PDF ... less than 2 weeks ago Marc sent it to the inner circle. Robject and I both are in that group.

I have only skimmed it, and only looked at a few sections.

T5 starts with a pair of what are, for me, fatal flaws - using the multi-die task system and the 1 skill level per year.

My eyes still glaze over at the Character gen.

Sup 4 was interacting with Marc to make combat more playable; I don't know how that went, since his self exile after being told that he had to obey the board rules. (his ban was at his request. All he has to do to remove it is ask, and agree to follow the board rules.)

 

[SpaceBadger]

I do have PDF ... less than 2 weeks ago Marc sent it to the inner circle. Robject and I both are in that group.

I'm doing my best meticulous proofreading - and it needs it! - but it is slow going for me due to bad headaches the past couple weeks making it hard to concentrate. I'm only maybe 2/3 through Book 1, but I see somebody else has been working on Book 2.

 

[hdan]

T5 starts with a pair of what are, for me, fatal flaws - using the multi-die task system and the 1 skill level per year.

Fatal flaws from the perspective of being a game system you would like though, right? I respect that.

Having casually worked through some of the math, it seems to me that doubling the skill level total and adding Flux rolls was an attempt to fix the "roll xD under a target" system. T4's approach (using half-dice) wasn't great.

I know a lot of people love "2D+DMs for 8+" though, and it's certainly what I'm used to.

 

[Axe]

I've backed several Goodman Games Kickstarters. Goodman Games learned quickly how important proofreading by outside sources is. Now, it is their custom to release the PDFs to the backers almost immediately after the project was funded. The backers proofread the material for several weeks, then, the PDFs are sent to the printer.

Goodman Games thought one project was "close enough" and sent the PDFs to the printer. Immediately, hundreds of us chimed in telling Goodman Games that we'd rather wait for a far better/correct product. Not only were there typos, there were confusing and contradictory statements, and missing rules Goodman Games thought were obvious. Goodman Games stopped the printer and sent the PDFs to EVERY backer. A fantastic product was the result and it was done right the first time.

Less than a handful of backers expressed displeaser with having to wait. Hundreds of us backers expressed how we were completely satisfied with the great product, even though it was delivered eight months late.

The above is an example of a great publisher listening to their audience, doing the right thing, and profiting from it.

 

[SpaceBadger]

Not only were there typos,

there were confusing and contradictory statements,

and missing rules Goodman Games thought were obvious.

That, and That.

The latter not so much, or else I regard as outside my scope because, despite two fairly complete readings and then repeated reading of certain sections, I still don't feel like I have a good grasp of T5 as a whole. So I'm making very few comments on rules as rules, sticking mostly to proofing those pesky typos, wrong words, bad sentences, and contradictions. (And while there's no NDA per se, I still wouldn't go into specifics without permission from Marc.)

[Edit: plus my brain injury causes me not only frustration but also physical pain when I try to grasp too much organized information as a whole, but doesn't seem to give me any trouble with proofing. Unless that's why the headache has been worse recently. ]

 

[ThornPlutonius]

I would love to be able to do some proof-reading of the documents.

 

[K.B.]

Based on what I'm reading here I'm very skeptical till Marc addresses publicly the issues he had with the 2012 Kickstarter version and if he'll be getting significant feedback before sending it to printer.

I pledged on Kickstarter so I could make a comment and ask these questions realizing I can cancel my pledge before it ends if it looks like a repeat of the 2012 mess.

 

[whartung]

I do have PDF ... less than 2 weeks ago Marc sent it to the inner circle. Robject and I both are in that group.

I have only skimmed it, and only looked at a few sections.

T5 starts with a pair of what are, for me, fatal flaws - using the multi-die task system and the 1 skill level per year.

Honestly, and certainly insight in to the actual systems is important, but I think more important is simply the production quality of the set.

While, perhaps, you may not like the task system, is it well explained, at the examples of its use accurate, etc.?

I know a lot of folks have commented on the systems themselves, but there's also been the comments on just the simple quality of the production.

I recall getting T4, I was pretty excited. Bought 2 copies. Then I got FF&S for T4, which was a complete and utter disaster. Someone dropped the ball on that. Not only did they drop the ball, they just stood there and stared at it as the runners cleared the bases.

And that killed T4 mostly for me, I never really gave it a second look. Then the early reviews of T5 came out and the T4 episode just rang in my head to where I didn't even look at it once.

Presentation matters, at least to me. A bad system presented well, documented, etc. is better than a bad presentation of a good system to where the production overshadows the underlying content.

Early Dr. Who is like that to me. I can't watch, I don't know if the stories are good or not honestly, the production was just so terrible. I know, that perhaps that's part of the appeal perhaps to some, but it was off putting enough to me to not give it a second glance.

It's honestly beyond disappointing that someone who I thought (mistakenly?) would be on the inner circle still has skepticism about fundamentals within it. As if baseline commentary was not necessarily addressed. It's not that I don't recognize the size and scope of this project, but, honestly, it's been a LONG time.

That's what I feel, I obviously don't know.

 

[Spenser TR]

Presentation matters...

This. This is a tremendous deal. Especially for something in its revised version. I backed at a high level; I'm sooooo very down for giving money to encourage development of the game, but I agree wholeheartedly.

If the PDFs - and heaven forbid the hardcopies - aren't just about typo-free after all this time and revisions and build up, I feel that definitely makes a statement about respect for fans. A lot of us have a reflexive urge to defend what Marc puts out, but typos in this version of this particular offering at this point in time would really be below table stakes.

I can handle not liking some of the systems, or not being able to follow through with some of the flows. But getting serious typos or editing problems now would be like finding typos on a resume I paid over $200 for the privilege of seeing and holding in my hands. It's certainly a lot of complex material, but there's been no shortage of time, no lack of eyes on it, and no shortage of cash delivered.

I'm hoping for serious quality.

 

[mike wightman]

Five days left and only thirteen more backers until a thousand people have joined the campaign.

 

[PVernon]

Now 7 to go.

 

[Timerover51]

Actually, 6. I am sending Marc a check.

 

[Taythorian]

We hit 1,000 Backers

 

[coliver988]

This. This is a tremendous deal. Especially for something in its revised version. I backed at a high level; I'm sooooo very down for giving money to encourage development of the game, but I agree wholeheartedly.

If the PDFs - and heaven forbid the hardcopies - aren't just about typo-free after all this time and revisions and build up, I feel that definitely makes a statement about respect for fans. A lot of us have a reflexive urge to defend what Marc puts out, but typos in this version of this particular offering at this point in time would really be below table stakes.

I can handle not liking some of the systems, or not being able to follow through with some of the flows. But getting serious typos or editing problems now would be like finding typos on a resume I paid over $200 for the privilege of seeing and holding in my hands. It's certainly a lot of complex material, but there's been no shortage of time, no lack of eyes on it, and no shortage of cash delivered.

I'm hoping for serious quality.

Need a +1 system... I agree. I'm "only" in for $150 (I have all the rest already, darn KS addiction / completionist issues / OCD Traveller isssues…). But it had better be an actual playable system at least really close to free of typos, mislabeling, etc.

The next step would be to convince my gaming group to try, but we're all old and usually play first or early editions of games (I have managed to get 2 arcs of Classic / Mongoose Traveller in. T5 may be a hard sell)

 

[bjjones37]

Need a +1 system... I agree. I'm "only" in for $150 (I have all the rest already, darn KS addiction / completionist issues / OCD Traveller isssues…).

Amen to that!

 

[mike wightman]

Early release of the pdf version to backers would allow a thousand plus pairs of eyes to spot typos before it goes to print.

I'm not saying rules analysis or system criticism, just typos...

 

[aramis]

Early release of the pdf version to backers would allow a thousand plus pairs of eyes to spot typos before it goes to print.

I'm not saying rules analysis or system criticism, just typos...

If you open it to one, you'll get all three...

 

[Spenser TR]

If you open it to one, you'll get all three...

Sure; the nature of people, and all.

Of course, one could say "thank you for the effort, as always we'll discuss all the feedback" and just implement the typo/grammar stuff. There might be a few gems in there among all the noise on analysis and criticism.