T5 Errata Thread

[dalthor]

Importance extension

On pg. 427, section E it states Importance may range from -2 to +4.

On pg. 435, using the table, it can range from -3 to +5 (or maybe +6 depending on how you interpret the N/S/W base modifer.)

You can get -1 for starport D, another -1 TL 8 or less, and -1 if pop is 6 or less, for a total of -3.

Starport A/B +1, TL A +1, up to another +2 between Ag/Hi/In/Ri; +1 if both N and S, or +1 if waystation for a possible +5.

Also, if you have Naval and waystation, is that supposed to be +2, since it is harder to get NW than NS? That entry may be missing from the chart.

Dalthor

 

[DonM]

On pg. 427, section E it states Importance may range from -2 to +4.

On pg. 435, using the table, it can range from -3 to +5 (or maybe +6 depending on how you interpret the N/S/W base modifer.)

You can get -1 for starport D, another -1 TL 8 or less, and -1 if pop is 6 or less, for a total of -3.

Starport A/B +1, TL A +1, up to another +2 between Ag/Hi/In/Ri; +1 if both N and S, or +1 if waystation for a possible +5.

Also, if you have Naval and waystation, is that supposed to be +2, since it is harder to get NW than NS? That entry may be missing from the chart.

Thought I responded to this... but here's the errata item for page 427:

p. 427, E The Extensions, The Importance Extension {Ix} (clarification): Importance can range from +5 to −3.

Naval + Waystation is NOT +2. That entry is not missing, it's deliberately not there. See the explanation I posted in that discussion thread. Don't discuss it here.

 

[OjnoTheRed]

Personals, p. 185 - p. 189

The example "Talking to the Clerk" on p. 187 does not align with the rest of this chapter. In the example the Referee rolls 2D for the Clerk's Carouse, Query, Persuade and Command.

However, the rest of the rules make it clear that these are purposes which determine difficulty with the target number being the strategy employed (select one of five for each purpose) with a tactic as a multiplier plus mods. The target number is not rolled randomly on 2D; there is already a mechanism for circumstance mods such as the Master Mods table. For example, the Referee could rule that the PC's looks are "Cute" for a +1 Mod on the Charming strategy, or the Clerk has distaste for the PC for a -2 Mod.

 

[Daddicus]

Page 576

Location: Page 576, right column, 2nd paragraph.

The bolded "Flles" should probably be "Flies".

 

[Daddicus]

Page 577

Location: Page 577, right column, 2nd full paragraph.

The bolded word "KIllers" or "Klllers" probably should be "Killers".

 

[Daddicus]

Page 586

Wow, I'm on a roll tonight:

Page 586, 2nd column, 4th full paragraph:

The bolded "CIrclIng" or "Clrcllng" should probably be "Circling".

Same page, 2nd column, last paragraph:

The bolded "VInes" or "Vlnes" should probably be "Vines".

 

[Hemdian]

Default Skills and Knowledges

(Transferred from Errata Discussion thread. Quotes are from p144. This is all in the context of the default skills list, which includes Fighter-0 and Turrets-0.)

First, it appears that if you have a skill at level zero or greater then you have all its contained knowledges at atleast level zero. Thus if you have Fighter-0 then you also have Battledress-0 ... something many us balk at.

A character who receives a Skill may always choose one of its contained Knowedges instead. However, since a Skill includes ability in all of its contained Knowledges, this choice is less than optimal.

Second (and on this point there is disagreement on how to interpret the text) if you gain a Knowledge, do you gain the underlying skill? The text says

If a character receives a Knowledge directly (perhaps in an ANM School) he increases that Knowledge, but not the corresponding Skill.

Which mvdwege takes as meaning you can have the Knowledge without having the skill. Thus the default Turrets-0 would not confer Gunner-0.

However, the text also says

The first two times a character receives one of these Skills (typically in Character Generation), he instead receives one of the Skill’s contained Knowledges.

Followed by ...

Until then, he has the Knowledges but only Skill-0.

So you haven't acquired the skill, just knowledges. Yet you still have Skill-0.

Which would seem contradictory but actually I think that's just because the first quote is ambiguous. It's NOT contradictory if ...

If a character receives a Knowledge directly (perhaps in an ANM School) he increases that Knowledge, but not (increase) the corresponding Skill.

So Turrets-0 would confer Gunner-0, which (again) many us balk at.

Additionally, if Gunner-0 implies Turret-0 and Turret-0 confers Gunner-0 then the text should say Gunner-0 ... if that is what was intended. (Or maybe it was supposed to be Turret-1?)

I'm leaning towards dropping Turret from the default list of skills.

 

[DonM]

(Transferred from Errata Discussion thread. Quotes are from p144. This is all in the context of the default skills list, which includes Fighter-0 and Turrets-0.)

First, it appears that if you have a skill at level zero or greater then you have all its contained knowledges at atleast level zero. Thus if you have Fighter-0 then you also have Battledress-0 ... something many us balk at.

Second (and on this point there is disagreement on how to interpret the text) if you gain a Knowledge, do you gain the underlying skill? The text says

Which mvdwege takes as meaning you can have the Knowledge without having the skill. Thus the default Turrets-0 would not confer Gunner-0.

However, the text also says

Followed by ...

So you haven't acquired the skill, just knowledges. Yet you still have Skill-0.

Which would seem contradictory but actually I think that's just because the first quote is ambiguous. It's NOT contradictory if ...

So Turrets-0 would confer Gunner-0, which (again) many us balk at.

Additionally, if Gunner-0 implies Turret-0 and Turret-0 confers Gunner-0 then the text should say Gunner-0 ... if that is what was intended. (Or maybe it was supposed to be Turret-1?)

I'm leaning towards dropping Turret from the default list of skills.

I think everyone knows where I fit on this (see Don's House Rules, where I use a different default knowledge list). Added to get an official ruling.

 

[Supplement Four]

Don requested this...

Actually, I would request that you put a note to this effect in the Errata thread, so I have a reminder to discuss it with Marc directly.

Referring to this:

So Orbit to Ground is SR-4 or 4D. Also if you look at the ranges table on P.41 you will find the ranges in KM as well as speed of light.

And this:

First off, wouldn't that be a nice thing to reference in the Sensor Chapter, that is 338 pages later in the book (starting on p. 379)?

I'll also add that it would be helpful to reprint the Range Table either in the Sensors chapter or somewhere close to the chapters that deal with that information regularly (like the Starship Weapons chapter, too).

 

[Jeffr0]

I have no idea how this is supposed to work.

On pages 252-253, there is sometimes a complete lack of equals, plus, or minus characters to tell you what you are doing.

I don't even know what the D column is on page 253.

Cost, Mass, and Burden all work fine-- but this other stuff is just confusion.

Also: there is nothing here about shots or ammunition that I could see. Not in the charts, anyway.

Help!

 

[Jeffr0]

Page 275: This should have been a worked example, not a repeat of the blank fillform.

Page 274: Random armor creation: the order you roll things and what you roll is completely opaque. How do I roll up a random "Iem" type? Why aren't the burden and stage charts labeled? Why is there no instruction block the way that the random gun creation page has?

Page 257: Random weapon creation: Why am I working from right to left? That's idiotic outside of Israel.

 

[Jeffr0]

The difference between H1, H2, H3, D1, D2, D3, and hits doesn't seem to be explained anywhere.

 

[Hemdian]

The difference between H1, H2, H3, D1, D2, D3, and hits doesn't seem to be explained anywhere.

I think I can field this one. I’ve not really looked at GunMaker yet, but I believe H1 and D1 are the primary hit type and damage (from GunMaker 03). H2 and D2 are the secondary hit type and damage, and H3 and D3 are the tertiary hit type and damage (from GunMaker 04). Hits seem to be on both GunMaker 03 and GunMaker 04 are related to the v1 system.

There are two hit systems; ‘quick’ (for NPCs) and ‘detailed’. The ‘quick’ system is sometimes referred to as V1, the ‘detailed’ system is sometimes referred to as V0 or V2 (probably a typo). This is mentioned on p214/215, and briefly on p241 and p262.

 

[Jeffr0]

H1 and D1 are the primary hit type and damage (from GunMaker 03). H2 and D2 are the secondary hit type and damage, and H3 and D3 are the tertiary hit type and damage (from GunMaker 04). Hits seem to be on both GunMaker 03 and GunMaker 04 are related to the v1 system.

Well, I kinda got that they were primary, secondary, and tertiary.

What I don't have is the significance of those layerings. Does one have to penetrate for the others to be applied? Are they all added together? Are they all applied as separate hits with their own chance to penetrate?

 

[Licheking]

Its not fully explained at the moment true. The general consensus at the moment is they are applied all at once, but in some cases that wouldn't work, for example Bang with Blast, one goes against SoundProof and one against Ar. So yes does need some explanation.

 

[Jeffr0]

Its not fully explained at the moment true. The general consensus at the moment is they are applied all at once, but in some cases that wouldn't work, for example Bang with Blast, one goes against SoundProof and one against Ar. So yes does need some explanation.

I kind of like these subsystems. I think there is some real potential here... and it's great that the complexity level is more CT+ than Striker or FF&S.

BUT... the fact that there are no coherent, playable, understandable rules for this means that there is no game here. This is not a matter of "errata." There is not actually a game here to patch up.

 

[Hemdian]

Well, I kinda got that they were primary, secondary, and tertiary.

What I don't have is the significance of those layerings. Does one have to penetrate for the others to be applied? Are they all added together? Are they all applied as separate hits with their own chance to penetrate?

My take is that there are upto three different types of damage that are done in a successful hit. There is only one 'to hit' roll but each damage type has to defeat the relevant aspect of armour seperately. Any that gets through may be summed by injury type.

For example, the SnSnAC-9 does Bang-1 Blast-3 Bullet-1. Therefore on a successful hit you apply 1D of Bang damage against the Soundproof aspect of the target's armour. This causes 1D of deafness per point that gets through. You also apply 3D of Blast damage against the Armour aspect of the target's armour. This causes 1 hit per point that gets through. You also apply 1D of Bullet damage against the Armour aspect of the target's armour. This causes 1 hit per point that gets through. (So if Blast and Bullet both get through you can sum hits.). Injuries and armour degredation take affect in the Situation phase of the next round.

 

[Jeffr0]

My take is that there are upto three different types of damage that are done in a successful hit. There is only one 'to hit' roll but each damage type has to defeat the relevant aspect of armour seperately. Any that gets through may be summed by injury type.

For example, the SnSnAC-9 does Bang-1 Blast-3 Bullet-1. Therefore on a successful hit you apply 1D of Bang damage against the Soundproof aspect of the target's armour. This causes 1D of deafness per point that gets through. You also apply 3D of Blast damage against the Armour aspect of the target's armour. This causes 1 hit per point that gets through. You also apply 1D of Bullet damage against the Armour aspect of the target's armour. This causes 1 hit per point that gets through. (So if Blast and Bullet both get through you can sum hits.). Injuries and armour degredation take affect in the Situation phase of the next round.

Okay, now we're getting somewhere.

I see that there is a quick and dirty damage system for NPC's.

Is the CT style damage-against-attributes really the default system? The rules system presents it as sort of an optional thing, but then it is later on hard wired into the tables.

Also: these rules do not seem to have hit points or anything for vehicles. How do you explode a vehicle in this game? The only real rule I see here is to either roll on the damage location table or else do "Behind the Screen" damage... neither of which seem all that serious. It feels like something is missing again.

 

[robject]

ERRATA - Reentry Heat Damage

There are inconsistencies in the heat damage ratings for reentry.

Page 230
Slow Reentry = Heat-50
Reentry = Heat-2000
Reentry Plus = Heat-3000 (dense atmospheres)

Page 231
Slow Boost = Heat-10 (surface to orbit)
Slow Reentry = Heat-20
Fast Boost = Heat-20 (surface to orbit)
Fast Reentry = Heat-1000
Meteoric = Heat-2000

Page 364-365
(There's an error in both example friction computations: 1/3 versus 1/2)

Fast Reentry = Heat-2000 (speed=16)
Slow Reentry = Heat-200 (speed=13)
Safe Reentry = No friction heating (speed=5)


I Would Suggest that Reentry damage type changes to something unique. As a placeholder, call it "Reentry".

Damage amount is mitigated primarily by Configuration, secondarily by Structure, and completely bypasses Armor. Each Reentry hit randomly damages a component on the ShipSheet. Roll Flux for damage location, and 2D for damage severity: a severity of 10 or greater means the component is destroyed.

Standard Reentry takes [World Size] hours and does Reentry=20. Note: Vacuum inflicts no hits, and Streamlined, Airframe, and Lifting Body hulls ignore all Reentry damage.

Safe Reentry halves the number of hits, and takes [World Size x 5] hours.
Meteoric Reentry doubles the number of hits, and takes [World Size] minutes.
Dense and Exotic atmospheres double the number of hits.
Thin, Very Thin, and Trace atmospheres halve the number of hits.
Unstreamlined hulls halve the number of hits.

Heat modifications might not be necessary: polymer and organic hull types already have adequate tradeoffs, and help to limit Airframe and Lift Body configurations.

 

[aramis]

p. 437

Mj= Jupiter Masses. Diameter in Miles.
LGG Large Gas Giant= Size P to X.
SGG Small Gas Giant= Size L to N.
All BD Brown Dwarfs are Siz=Q. Convert
every second SGG Small Gas Giant to IG Ice
Giant (same size).

BD should be size Y - they're bigger than Jupiter, and have a benchmark lower limit of about 10Mj - and anything 10 Mj or bigger is about that same diameter bracket until it ignites. (Which should be a population III initial minimum of about 55 Mj, and Population II or I of about 85 Mj; Sol is 1047 Mj. That ignition also "fluffs it out" quite a bit.)
The convert note should start on a separate line, not continue the BD line.