I just was reading about SpaceMaster awhile ago, looking for Harn stuff. They have a HARP SF game, too, or something. But I'm good with Traveller. A friend(s) of mine have been trying to get me to play Cyberpunk. I lost interest in that genre years ago. Until.... I watched the Cyberpunk 2077 teaser video. But that is not a tabletop game.
T5 CT MGT? Which? Why?
- Thread starter nats
- Start date
Yea, I knew I was forgetting one that I used to play a lot!
SpaceMaster can be used to do Traveller - assuming you create and use the lifepath generation mechanic option. You need Arms Law Claw Law to round out the melee weapons. The system is over-mathy for my current tastes, but it's not a bad engine. It desperately needs a GM assistant program.
The company brags at how many charts and skills their games have. That's the wrong direction for my tastes. I thought those things were cool in the '80s. I'll use GURPS if I want a huge skill list.
CosmicGamer
SOC-14 1K
MgT
Some refs aren't necessarily bad but might lack experience with a specific game system, sci fi RPG, or even be totally new to RPGs. Or if they are a bad ref, does that mean they still can't get by with some help and have fun - oh, wait, with CT it might!:rofl:
And because it's common, why not write it down, or have it already written down by people with a lot more gaming experience than me, so that I don't forget something or mistakenly do it differently each time? I know the MgT system well enough that now I can come up with those "common sense" DMs without looking them up. Is that so different than a CT GM? When I started, I certainly referenced the book more than now. I was a newbie having returned to Traveller after 15 years of no RPGing at all. Heck, I still have to look up simple things I've used at least a few times like the proper noble title for different SOC levels. If I look something up then it's probably something I don't know or am unsure of and in CT if it's something not written that would mean discussion, debate, research, or winging it vs just looking it up.
I'm not trying to put CT down, just like nat, I'm pointing out that MgT spells things out more. Some may find that restrictive but others might find it useful or even a godsend because they never would have thought of everything on their own until they've put in a lot of time and experience. Something that nats probably has already done with CT. How many years experience do you have with it? How many hours of going through rules, solo play, planing for games, and group gaming?
I've only GM'ed two full sessions of MgT, played in several others, and I like MgT's skill resolution system. It runs fairly fast. Most of my group are complete Traveller newbies and the most of the others haven't played Traveller in 20 years or so. One has GM experience with MgT. Being able to tell the players, "Roll 2d6, add in your Stat DM and your Skill Level plus a DM that I'll tell you and you are trying to get an 8+" is very easy to teach.
Also, I use a lot of opposed die rolls and MgT's system makes that very easy to run.
nats
SOC-12
Yes actually when I was writing my post I was actually thinking by the end of it that really the rules dont mean too much - its more what you do with them and how you use them, what you take from them, and what you decide to leave behind. And everyone is different.
I prefer CT because its simple and I have a terrible memory and not much patience and concentration nowadays - I cant be bothered with trying to learn Mongoose, never mind remember it all - just because with MgT all the rules seem to be spread amongst the background info and design sections, with new books introducing new rules - it just does my head in! Whenever I just even look at how to resolve combat I feel I need to create some cheat sheets to sort it all out in my head! I still havent figured it out or even bothered to try a MgT trial combat session yet and Ive owned several MgT books for years!
I am hoping T5 will be better. I am hoping that the CT simplicity will be there for the day to day running of games (good task system/easy combat resolution/starship operation lists, etc), but with the depth provided where its needed, and kept in separate distinct sections that you dont even need to look at it if you dont want to during gaming sessions (chargen/design/equipment/psionics).
Mostly I am hoping that there is some great advice on how to role play and how to run Traveller games. I love reading those bits! Starter Traveller particularly had some great info about role playing etc that was not present in other CT editions. Hope its all in T5 - with 650+ pages you would expect its all covered!
Even though Mongoose Traveller mentions pretty much every rule twice, and they conflict each other instead of re-inforce a rule, the sections of the book are small to make it quick to find an answer. Trade is near the back (before world generation). Combat is after skills. Page 8 mentions the difference between doing a Steath 8+ or an EDU 8+ check.
I've tried playing Universe (years ago). Lots of squaring of skills to pad the percentage range for its D100 rolls. I'm glad Mongoose Traveller stuck with the 2-12 range instead of adding entire attributes to bloated skill levels and then adding DMs to figure out a target number to roll (either over or under, I can't remember now, MgT sticks to 8+ for a lot less hassle).
I was the same way with Classic Traveller in 1980. The wording for combat did not click with me. I've done videos explaining about Traveller's original hitting style. D&D used it too and still does. I won't touch the stuff. I only use the Mongoose core rulebook when I GM a game because I'm usually with players that are new to the game. It keeps things simple.
Traveller 5 is far more foreign to Classic Traveller for skill checks and combat "hits" as Mongoose Traveller is. The GM section of Traveller 5 is the same old stuff that's been written by Marc Miller. Still uses the same UPP form sheets for players. Still a very 1st-gen RPG in that regard.
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DangerousThing
SOC-13
Why so?
GURPS has a lot of very nice resource books, including the GT ones.
The Fudge dice give a very nice -4 to +4 curve. And the ruleset is more geared towards telling stories than Traveller (not that you can't with Traveller, but Fudge is more geared towards getting a character *you* want without the randomness of Traveller or the calculations of GURPS.
I'll be using T5 in my upcoming game.
I will say that I like the T5 task resolution system.
Of course, I will be using my own house rules, including varieties of magic and Drama points. But I run a more cinematic game than most Traveller GMs.
DangerousThing
SOC-13
Ayup, I like T5's nD6 where n goes up with difficulty. It goes up in a standard way with nice words just like MgT.
And I've never had any reason to dislike roll-under, though some people seem to have big problems with it.
I've found T5's task system is strong enough to support anything I throw at it.
Now, I'm not sure I like a single reference book that is 650 pages. I'll probably be using the PDF version and only using the working copy of the book to show other players. That's why I got four books: one to give a friend for a late Christmas present, one for a working copy (w/ bookmarks/tabs), one for a reading copy (only me), and one to sit on the shelf to stay there until one of the other books break down.
I will admit that 650 pages sounds like a lot, but it's got a lot of stuff in it, including many things that were formerly in supplements.
One thing I would pay for, though, that seems to have been left out, is a shopping catalog with a lot of flavor text, or even a decent shopping catalog so that I don't have to use the Makers. I've got the starship building process down, but I am hoping that somebody writes a good WeaponMaker program.
I have no problem with rolling under. Makes no difference whether it's rolling under or over. I just have problems with what you're rolling under though in Traveller 5.
Which RPG task system isn't "strong" enough?
nats
SOC-12
I am rather concerned about a book of 650 pages as well and I dont like PDFs so I wouldnt want one of those. When you think that the original LBBs are 3x50 pages, the Mongoose Core Rulebook is 190 pages and that T5 is nearly 3.5 times larger! Really makes me worried that there is far too much rubbish, waffle and uselessness in the book more than anything else. It would take me three months just to read the book never mind digest it, understand it, , learn it, play with it and remember it all!
I hope I am wrong and that its really well laid out with quick reference tables for the important gaming tasks and added bumph, that is only needed occasionally, well tucked away in the back appendices, but I suspect that wont be the case. And even if it is like that theres no reason it couldnt have been done in three separate volumes. I wont be buying it if its too big and labourious to use though, I will stick with CT. It was this concern that stopped me from supporting the Kickstarter even though I love Traveller.
A nit - LBBs are 3x50 half pages.
This certainly makes them more efficient taking to, and using at, the gaming table.
Hands down, they are also much better suited to digital media than anything that has come since! (Even dead tree die-hards might change their minds seeing totally readable rule books, with usable bookmarked pages two taps away, and all held in one palm... especially when one adds instantly available custom resources.)
In combination with Univers still being one of the most readable typefaces ever created, the digest size makes the LBBs excellently suited to modern tablets. Heck, for me, the LBBs are totally readable on the retina iPod touch and iPhones, not to mention the non-retina iPad-mini. Whereas MgT is almost unusable on them, and marginal at best on the iPad mini - and still a bit painful even on the full retina iPad.
nats
SOC-12
Actually more than anything else I am hoping that T5 will premanently end the hesitation I have over using either CT or MgT. I love CTs simplicity but I also like MgT chargen and Task system. But then CT has nostalgia and superb readability on its side whereas MgT is confusing and contradictory. But CT is old and out of date whereas MgT corrects a lot that is outdated in CT. I am just so undecided which system to use for gameplaying. I know that MgT should be the one I use but it keeps putting me off everytime a read it. I hope T5 will rescue me from this quandry I have been in for years now. It better not make the situation even worse!!
Matter of personal taste, de gustibus etc, so I am not trying to change your mind, but... I've found that there are wide differences in useability of PDF versions of game books, depending on things like how images are included, whether there are background images underneath the text on most or all pages, how well bookmarked/indexed it is, and whether the text has been OCRd so as to be searchable rather than just an image of a printed page.
The Paizo Pathfinder game books are at the very bad extreme of this and are barely useable, hard to scroll, etc - I think mostly because of the way they have the backgrounds on every page, but also poor indexing.
The Mongoose 2300AD book is an excellent PDF product, easy to scroll, easy to search, bookmarked by chapters and sub-chapters, no annoying lags when you scroll past an image. It makes a big difference.
Let's hope that whoever Marc Miller has making the PDF version of T5 takes advice from Mongoose rather than Paizo!
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DangerousThing
SOC-13
You roll under (generally) a characteristic + a skill + a knowledge. The number of dice is determined by the difficulty. I never roll dice for anything that is automatic.
The knowledge, which is merely a specialization of a skill, was added (so I was told) to allow skills and characteristics to have an equal effect, roughly.
I find I really like specializations.
Now, there are mods that one can add to the number that will be rolled under, but for the most part I'd rather just adjust the number of dice used.
I also wish that the amount by which you rolled under the dice counted for something. Just my 2 cCr.
Something else that concerns me about the Traveller 5 dice roll is that each die adds more of a curve to the value. So there is this linear range of addidtions that you're trying to roll under. But your roll is not linear. The resulting numbers tend to bunch up in the middle. Not at a theoretically perfect dice roll of zero (I'm so awesome at the task!) or hair-line failling of the task.
2D6 has a bell, also. Just not as extreme. But enough bell to still allow rolling 2 or 12 more often.
2D6 has a bell, also. Just not as extreme. But enough bell to still allow rolling 2 or 12 more often.
rich4421972
SOC-12
Traveller4 all the way. I love the ambition (and artwork) of the original product and I really do like the 7- system and the upgrade to the High Guard ship rules. I'm sure that few will agree with me, but T4, Like MegaTraveller, brought a new setting to Traveller and a new way of playing that setting. I'm not saying that political/diplomatic role-playing was not possible before but I believe it was further developed forMilieu 0/The Silesian Empire. For the first time ever (well, not really), we had an "official setting" in which the character of Cleon I was described as a playable character or NPC. 
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pendragonman
Absent Friends Margrave
It was very open to those of us in the Beta, and most of the Beta people kickstarted.
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