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T4 or not T4

Beck's

SOC-8
Hi everybody!

After a (relatively) long break in my career as referee, I decided to pick it up again. My experience with Traveller is pretty limited. Once played some weird german version of what I think was Classic Traveller (it was called "Traveller 2: Söldner, Scouts und Handelsprinzen" -> "Mercenaries, Scouts and Merchant Princes"). We had lots of fun, but by now, the book is about to fall apart.
Some time ago, I bought the core rule book of the 4th edition of Traveller. And, maybe except for the 1/2-d6 (which I planned to replace by full d6...1d6 to 6d6) and the somewhat funny space ship designs, I liked it very much. Bad thing is, that it seems to be out-of-print and the book- and game stores nearby aren't really known for their ability to get "exotic" stuff (Traveller is, unfortunately, not very popular in germany).
I also heard about the re-release of Classic Traveller with its famous "black books".

Now, before spending my limited budget in expensive imports, I'd like to hear the opinion of experts (compared to me, everybody around here seems to be one). What experiences did you have with the T4-system? Would you prefer to buy Classic Traveller?
Any other help is also highly appreciated!
smile.gif

And sorry for my english, I know it's not perfect.

Regards,
Christopher Beckmann
 
You can't find T4 anymore because its publisher Imperium Games is no more... The core rulebook reads like a civil service manual and the art work is ugly. to their credit they Did modernize the computer rules. I used it breiflfy in my Campaign, butfound the rules to cumbersome for large adventuring groups. If you have a small group in a smallship this may work... I was about to switch to Gurps Traveller when Far future began reprinting the little black books.....In short T4 has other flaws too numerous to mention here. So I went back to classic traveller sans computer rules... My advice is palm off your T4 materials on someone and get the FFE repints.
 
I belive that T4 is at its heart a good system; better than CT (!). It needs a good few house rules to fix the mangled bits - which T5 will do, BTW - but I use it and wouldn't go back to CT, MT etc. I also prefer it over GURPS Traveller, though I did give the klatter a fair chance....
 
Thx for the quick replies!

Got some more questions. First for the T4 supplements. I could get my hands on the Central Supply Catalogue and the Milieu-0-thingy (a game store in the next "bigger" city still has them as nice-prices). Not sure about the rest. I'll have to check ebay.
Are the supplements worth their money? What about the Emperor's Arsenal for example? And which supplements would you regard as crucial (both for T4 and CT...)?

And now for Classic Traveller. I've never had the pleasure to hold one of the original books in my hands. But in the "Traveller 2" book, there was some nice new Combat System that could be used instead of the weapon tables (target's armor and distance to target as modifiers for a 2d6-roll on 8 or higher). The new system was based around the weapons' "penetration factors" and I think it had been taken from some Traveller board game (Snap Shot? Azhanti High Lightning?). The problem with that system was that there were neither rules for animal encounters nor for close combat weapons. We used a mixture of both systems. But that doesn't seem to be the best solution and I heard that somewhere additional rules have been published?

Thanks again, guys.
smile.gif
 
t4 does four things right in my opinion:
1) increases the number of skills per term
2) does away with the limit on total skill levels
3) adds another level of difficulty to the task difficulties list
4) Psionics rules (base and Psi Bk, but not the roll required to succeed option) are killer. If the cost is less than skill, pay the PSP's and just do it. If higher, then maybe you'll burn out...


Just about everything else, however, is wrong, flawed, or ill concieved. I find combat the worst of all editions (even GT is better), you actually can not kill someone with a single shot (Since ALL damage from the first hit is applied to One attribute... IIRC 4.1 fixed that). A lot of good ideas from days gone by resurfacing and proving why they went by the wayside. Convoluted. The FF&S for T4 was not only poorly written, poorly edited, and hard to use, but had a major problem in the layout process rendering many formulae incomprehensible.

------------------
-aramis
=============================================
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beck's:
Thx for the quick replies!

Got some more questions. First for the T4 supplements. I could get my hands on the Central Supply Catalogue and the Milieu-0-thingy (a game store in the next "bigger" city still has them as nice-prices). Not sure about the rest. I'll have to check ebay.
Are the supplements worth their money? What about the Emperor's Arsenal for example? And which supplements would you regard as crucial (both for T4 and CT...)?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

IMHO Central Suply Catalog and Pocket Empires are the best. Fire Fusion and Steel is good but very annoyingly typeset. Starships, Emperors Arsenal, Milieu o, and Imperial squadrons are ok, get them if they interest you. I don't recomend the Aliens Archive.

But whatever you do, do not purchase First Survey!

I'm not sure what the situation is like in Europe but in the US T4 suplements seem to trade at about $5 US each perhaps a bit more for the good ones.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beck's:
And now for Classic Traveller. I've never had the pleasure to hold one of the original books in my hands. But in the "Traveller 2" book, there was some nice new Combat System that could be used instead of the weapon tables (target's armor and distance to target as modifiers for a 2d6-roll on 8 or higher). The new system was based around the weapons' "penetration factors" and I think it had been taken from some Traveller board game (Snap Shot? Azhanti High Lightning?). The problem with that system was that there were neither rules for animal encounters nor for close combat weapons. We used a mixture of both systems. But that doesn't seem to be the best solution and I heard that somewhere additional rules have been published?

Thanks again, guys.
smile.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It sounds a little like what you have might be a version of MegaTraveller. If not MT proper it certainly sounds like it tries to do the same thing (Ie integrate Striker/AHL style combat)

I would suggest (If your willing to invest $110 US) That you pick up the FFE reprints series. FFE001 The Books, FFE002 The Supplements, and FFE005 The Games. This will give you most of the Rules bits from the original version along with a bunch of setting information.

You should also hunt around for Traveller Adventure 5 Trillion Credit Squadron if your interested in large scale fleet actions or just need to flesh out the possible naval powers in your campaign.

You might want to invest the $60 for FFE003 The Adventures and FFE004 The Short (Double) Adventures. I don't particularly care for prewritten adventures myself but most of them have cool deckplans and some additional setting info that can be used even if you don't use the actual adventures.

Your other alternative is to check out the GURPS: Traveller line. I'm not a fan of the gurps ruleset but the supplements they have produced are fairly high quality. And hey you might like GURPS as a rule system. Another way to go might be to wait untill Hunter et al release T20. Though I have no idea when that will be and how long it will take to filter through to overseas distributors.

HTH

------------------
I am increasingly of the opinion that RPGs are by the nature of their creation subjective phenomenon. due to the interaction between game designers, game masters, and game players all definitions, rules, settings, and adventures are mutable in acordance with the uncertainty principle as expounded by Heisenburg. This is of course merely my point of view.

David Shayne

[This message has been edited by DaveShayne (edited 06 January 2002).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beck's:
Thx for the quick replies!

Got some more questions. First for the T4 supplements. I could get my hands on the Central Supply Catalogue and the Milieu-0-thingy (a game store in the next "bigger" city still has them as nice-prices). Not sure about the rest. I'll have to check ebay.
Are the supplements worth their money? What about the Emperor's Arsenal for example? And which supplements would you regard as crucial (both for T4 and CT...)?

And now for Classic Traveller. I've never had the pleasure to hold one of the original books in my hands. But in the "Traveller 2" book, there was some nice new Combat System that could be used instead of the weapon tables (target's armor and distance to target as modifiers for a 2d6-roll on 8 or higher). The new system was based around the weapons' "penetration factors" and I think it had been taken from some Traveller board game (Snap Shot? Azhanti High Lightning?). The problem with that system was that there were neither rules for animal encounters nor for close combat weapons. We used a mixture of both systems. But that doesn't seem to be the best solution and I heard that somewhere additional rules have been published?

Thanks again, guys.
smile.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Definitively AHL/Striker, not MT.

Supplements:
The one I reccomend the most is Psionics. Squadrons is flawed by failing to account for lag times in the fill text. Mil0 is well liked by many. The one with the "Macrotasks" for running governments is nice.

CSC and EA are both fairly system specific.

------------------
-aramis
=============================================
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!
 
Well, I've got the GURPS mainbook. A part of it was quite interesting to read, but I didn't like most of the GURPS-system at all.

So it seems to be the best if I opt for the reprints of Classic Traveller. I can still buy an occasional T4-supplement if I need additional background.

Is there some way to avoid unwanted high shipping costs? Maybe the reprints are also available in the UK?
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beck's:
Well, I've got the GURPS mainbook. A part of it was quite interesting to read, but I didn't like most of the GURPS-system at all.

So it seems to be the best if I opt for the reprints of Classic Traveller. I can still buy an occasional T4-supplement if I need additional background.

Is there some way to avoid unwanted high shipping costs? Maybe the reprints are also available in the UK?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The re-prints are available from a number of places in the UK. There is the added advantage of being within the EU and therefore avoiding import tax. I'm not sure how tight German Customs is, but I've been hit a few times in Sweden. An extra 25% isn't funny :-(
Travelling Man (+44 113 242 7227)
The Games Shop (+44 1252 311 443)
I've used both of these and have had no problem.

------------------
Paul
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Takei:
Travelling Man (+44 113 242 7227)
The Games Shop (+44 1252 311 443)
I've used both of these and have had no problem.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Travelling man are very good, they also have two shops. The one above is in Leeds, the other is in York:
Travelling Man (York)
54 Goodramgate
York
Yorkshire
England
YO1 3DB

Telephone: 01904 628787
Fax: 01904 628704

The York shop stocks reprints and does mail order.

J.
 
Was T4.1 actually published? Or is there an addendum floating around out there? I have T4 and would be interested in seeing 4.1, can anyone help?
 
Christopher, if you´re still interested in T4 material, I have most of it, and I´d be willing to part with it. If you want things I don´t have, my local Gamestore has most T4 stuff in their half-price section.

If you´re interested, please contact me via E-mail (TRiepe5898@aol.com).

HTH

Tobias
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tobias:
Christopher, if you´re still interested in T4 material, I have most of it, and I´d be willing to part with it. If you want things I don´t have, my local Gamestore has most T4 stuff in their half-price section.

If you´re interested, please contact me via E-mail (TRiepe5898@aol.com).

HTH

Tobias

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They still do? Gee. Sells like a killer ;)

regards,
Stephan

[This message has been edited by Anubis (edited 21 January 2002).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tobias:
Christopher, if you´re still interested in T4 material, I have most of it, and I´d be willing to part with it. If you want things I don´t have, my local Gamestore has most T4 stuff in their half-price section.

If you´re interested, please contact me via E-mail (TRiepe5898@aol.com).

HTH

Tobias

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks for the offer, Tobias!
I'm still working on the logistics to buy Classic Traveller (saving money
biggrin.gif
). Maybe I'll get back to you once this mission is accomplished.
Noted your e-mail.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beck's:
Well, I've got the GURPS mainbook. A part of it was quite interesting to read, but I didn't like most of the GURPS-system at all.

So it seems to be the best if I opt for the reprints of Classic Traveller. I can still buy an occasional T4-supplement if I need additional background.

Is there some way to avoid unwanted high shipping costs? Maybe the reprints are also available in the UK?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Although I haven't seen any German E-bay listings for OOP Traveller products, I have seen a fair amount of listing from people in the UK on E-bay, both for CT (original LBB and the FFE Reprints) and T4 books, along with all of the other mileus of course, along with the board games and so forth. It is a bit of a gamble, sometimes perhaps a fourth of the listings on E-bay are from the UK, sometimes at most one or two, but they are out there. Anyway, hope this helps.

Me



------------------
It is not I who am crazy, it's I who am mad!
 
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