T20 and ECL races

[BluWolf]

I have not found a copy of T20 to purchase at my FLGS yet so forgive me if this issue addressed in there.

Does T20 address creating and playing ECL races? If so how?

For those not familiar with ECL (Effective Character Level), it is a race or template that would make a PC (or even an NPC) more powerful than a standard race.

Too wit,

A human in just about any D20 game is usually a base race and would be considered ECL +0. An Ogre PC (for various reasons) would have an ECL modifier of +3 (if memory serves). So in essence a 1st level Ogre fighter should be about equal with a 4th level human fighter. Just the basic concept.

Could you create a higher power race, say ECl +1, and trade off a 4 year term of prior experience?

Do ECLs work a little different in a game that is more focused on skills than levels? Non-combat action than combat??

 

[themink]

I haven;t got the book yet either - So I'll throw in an "off the Cuff" answer and see if it makes sense to you.

Given the way Prior history seems to work, a collection of "begining" character in traveller have widely spread character levels. the standard range seems to be between 6 and 9.

Given that you are unlikely to be moving characters between campeigns, this change in the playing field doesn;t really matter. What it means in real terms is that, if you are playing a game, your characters are likely to be closer to Han Solo than to Luke - He's put in years behind the sticks and knows his way arround.

I feel this raises a couple of follow up questions
- is the "standard" level of random NPCs likely to be roughly equivalent or do the players stand head and shoulders above their surroundings
- Since characters start out with such a large range of skills, can anyone see an easy way of making everyone "as good" (ie in GT there is the objective level of the character point value)

 

[BluWolf]

Excellent point Mink.

One of the reasons D20 is supposed to be so "portable" is a means of objectively "balancing" features of the game.

Essentially, anyone should be able to mix and match different features (classes, races, feats, templates...) and still have a realitive comfort in how balanced an encounter or adventuer will be.

Is this even relevant in Traveller? I'm not sure. I've never played.

 

[themink]

Continuing the thought.

If a player wanted to play a race with a higher EGL, I would be tempted to let them - effectively they stay first level until their actual level catches up (and it's likely to during character creation). They don't increase their skills etc until they start going up - skills are fairly important so that should encourage people not to do it.

For Example, if a player wanted to play an Ogre (He calls it a wookie, but that would violate trademarks) which has an EGL of +3 then they are a 1st level ogre until they prior history makes them 5th level - whereupon they get the advantages of a 2nd level whatever they are (ie 2nd actual level +3 EGL => 5th level character)

Sounds reasonable - In fact because the reduced number of skills that they would get is such a big disad I would be tempted to offer a fairly generous selection of races - things I normally wouldn't allow (such as Ogres, Illithid etc etc) Even if some skill bonuses and feats are included in the base package (skills like climbing etc) they should still be at a significant disad.

Now what possible game reason could I use to justify this "play balance" rule - none at all, it's just the way it is.

 

[AllenS]

D20 Traveller does have the concept of Alien Levels. In the core rulebook, only two species have this; Ursa (1 Alien Level) and Virushi (3 Alien Levels). Basically, an Ursa is a starts at 2nd level and a Virushi starts at 4th, counting their first class level. This means they tend to be somewhat lower in class levels at the start than others. None of the major Traveller races listed have any Alien Levels.

Here's an interesting thought; what other Traveller races do you think will have Class Levels and what might they be?

Allen

 

[William]

Originally posted by AllenS:

Here's an interesting thought; what other Traveller races do you think will have Class Levels and what might they be?

Allen

Bwaps - +10 levels of Bureaucrat! The PC's ultimate nightmare!

William

 

[GBoyett]

Originally posted by AllenS:
D20 Traveller does have the concept of Alien Levels. In the core rulebook, only two species have this; Ursa (1 Alien Level) and Virushi (3 Alien Levels). Basically, an Ursa is a starts at 2nd level and a Virushi starts at 4th, counting their first class level. This means they tend to be somewhat lower in class levels at the start than others. None of the major Traveller races listed have any Alien Levels.

Here's an interesting thought; what other Traveller races do you think will have Class Levels and what might they be?

Allen

Possibly the Hivers. Atmost 3 Alien Level.

 

[tjoneslo]

I don't see the Hiver as having any. They're slower than the normal humans and hate hand to hand combat. +2 Dex, -2 Str. Max +5 BAB regardless of class. Large. Multi-legged. Infravision. Can't speak. Only half have a sense of smell. Very slow regeneration (weeks to months). Access to all kinds of cool high tech toys.

They Dryone I can see having one or two Alien levels. They're small. They can fly. All of them are psionic, with a good range of powers. Generally any one of them has access to the resources of as many Dryone as the need in a way that humans generally can't. A low-level group mind effect.

 

[lord irial]

Originally posted by AllenS:
what other Traveller races do you think will have Class Levels and what might they be?

Allen

I don't own the T20 yet (hard to type with crossed fingers, but hopefully I'll have it this weekend), but am familiar with D&D3e/d20, and good ol' CT/MT. With that grain of salt, I think the Noble Zhodani would have character levels, probably Alien Levels/ECL +2 or +3. They start out with a lot of advantages, not the least being their psionic cabailities and training. Commoner Zhodani would likely be AL/ECL 0/+1, at least IMO.

I wonder what they based the Alien Levels on for Virushi and Ursa? Just ability score adjustments, combat power, or special qualities (aka racial abilities)?

Ael Yael would probably have a few Alien Levels, too, to compensate for the whole gliding/flying thing.

 

[Antares Administration]

Originally posted by tjoneslo:
They Dryone I can see having one or two Alien levels. They're small. They can fly. All of them are psionic, with a good range of powers. Generally any one of them has access to the resources of as many Dryone as the need in a way that humans generally can't. A low-level group mind effect.

The disadvantage that the Droyne have is their caste system. As a race, I would limit the classes available to them (Noble {for the Leader caste}, Professional {for the Worker or Bureaucrat}, Mercenary or Army {for the Warrior}, and Scout or Rogue {for the Sport}, and I would NEVER LET THEM MULTICLASS.

That would reasonably reflect the disadvantages of a rigid caste society, and would go a long way to offsetting their psionic advantages. I don't think I'd give them Alien levels.

Paul Nemeth
AA

 

[AllenS]

Originally posted by Antares Administration:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by tjoneslo:
They Dryone I can see having one or two Alien levels. They're small. They can fly. All of them are psionic, with a good range of powers. Generally any one of them has access to the resources of as many Dryone as the need in a way that humans generally can't. A low-level group mind effect.

The disadvantage that the Droyne have is their caste system. As a race, I would limit the classes available to them (Noble {for the Leader caste}, Professional {for the Worker or Bureaucrat}, Mercenary or Army {for the Warrior}, and Scout or Rogue {for the Sport}, and I would NEVER LET THEM MULTICLASS.</font>[/QUOTE]That's a good point about Droyne, although I might include Navy under the Warrior caste, but then I'm not sure about that. I agree that Droyne should not be allowed to multiclass. I could see them at 2 Class Levels due to their abilities. The tough part for me is the stat modifiers

Allen

 

[hawkwing98]

As a side note...it may be answered but the "alien Level" seems to be equal to the ECL level that 3rd ed uses.

 

[GypsyComet]

I'd probably let Droyne multiclass, but only after surviving the Death Urge and graduating to PC-dom. Why? Because they don't do the usual classes. They should have their own set of six classes. One for each Caste. After surviving the end of usefulness, they are no longer tied to the Caste class, and may multiclass...

For ECL/AL, the Droyne are a tough one. Generally lower stats across the board, Small size, flight for a few, and several natural psionic abilities including Invisibility. I'd probably vary ECL/AL by caste...