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T 5 Has arrived!!!!

So, I am not the only one...

T5 CD-ROM arrived today in Madrid, Spain. Now I need some ink, lots of paper and plenty of time to check it out.

Thanks, Marc and All involved.
Ah, a fellow tree killer, you go with your bad self. :D Oh and it's at least one ink cart, and a ream of paper to get it all printed.
 
Please remember that detailed reviews are NOT yet allowed. I've made this very clear in the private forum, but based on the contents of this thread, some of you aren't reading that...

(I've sent PMs to the appropriate persons).

Sorry, for the curious, but until Marc says we can discuss it in public, T5 remains closed content.

I am just glad to have it :D
Reviews are for those who need to order the product... so what are you folks waiting for?? Start ordering!!!

Marc
 
I can't say I'm that knowledgeable of the RPG industry, but watching the development of T5 is like watching the Keystone Cops. I can't imagine anything more amateur.
Having been involved in the later ends of design and support for a number of products, I can say that your Keystone cops comment proves you have not got the experience.

T5 in development for years.

The bettwer to get it right. I remain, among other things, a Traveller Game Master who has to face the task of bringin new players into the system. That is often a monumental task simply due to the many varient systems, IMTU house rules and other things that make up the current Traveller "universe". Given all the material that is out there, I am amazed we are really getting anything even 10 yrs after the first discussions. It is frightening how much material is out there to justify into one package.

Various invited playtesters leave disgruntled because Marc refuses to listen to their comments.

The truth is too often a many sided blade. I remember an ardent Battletech fan who came to me with a manuscript for a faction which had carved itself a home out of the Perifery(sp?). He had done amazing amounts of research and had coem to me for help getting FASA to make it part of the Official Battletech universe.
I explained to him that, at the very least, it would require re-writing history and scrapping potential plans the authors had for that area of space if any existed. His opinion was, "so what, it is a fictional history that they own so they can!". He could never understand that he had not answered "why would they want to" except that he wanted it. While I have to admit, the manuscript was a good one..I could find no reasons why the powers that be SHOULD. And that is too often the basis for semi-valid complaints. Add to that the rumors too often reported as truth and I feel certain that the public complaints are not the private reality.

T5 announced year on year as being imminent, but never gets published.
Better than waiting for something that never arrives(FASA: High Passage 6 for ex)

T5 announced as being sold as a beta CD-ROM so that others can do Marc's work in
getting it into shape so it can be sold again as a book. (Marc wins award for most innovative business model for 2007).
1) I have not paid any extra funds or been asked to pay/commit to paying more for this CD. As such this was NOT sold..so your accusation here is baseless
2) Traveller has always been a Fan supported evolution from the start onward. I remember seeing the ads in JTAS 9 that we can send int Char info and get Unit assignments for the FFW! Traveller has ALWAYS been a venue where fan submissions for gear, adventures and ideas have been a welcomed part of the game...well except for Frank Chadwick's decision to start a civil war... And the game has been better for it! So horay for fan involvement!

T5 CD-ROM announced as ready for release. (Much fanfare and releasing of pigeons).
T5 not quite ready for release, but gets delayed just a bit longer, honest, just a few months.

Here you are blaming Marc for the mistakes of people like ME.

Let me be clear, this is very much in part MY FAULT

I pre-ordered T5 and have not joined the private playtest. So I did not know that this was an in-development release. I, and people like me, touted this incorrectly as the finally hoped for T5.
So in this situation, perhaps you should have looked at the information you were reading more closely andverified it before accusing Marc and his folks based on the mistakes of consumers like me.

Rumor control is just as much the job of them as hears teh rumors(for not verifying their data) as it is the fools like me who, in this case, unintentionally spread incorrect information.

Hold on a minute, actually T5 is so far away from release that the alpha version needs to be sold to people who then do Marc's work in getting it into shape as a beta.
A year latter, T5 beta is now ready for sale.

Again, nothing has been sold but the final edition. You are screaming repeatedly about an accusation that is FALSE. Now if Marc had come to us all and said, "hey guys, game development is coming along but I'd like you all to chip in another $5 for an Alpha", then you'd becorrect. As it, those of us who pre-ordered have gotten a fre gift in time for christmas. One that helps us make the game better AND one that insures that once T5 is released there will be many of us out here to answer questions...
NOTE: we who will answer questions will also NOT CHARGE. So not only will T5 be better for it but you will have an army of helpful players to explain all the new things in detail.

Still have problems with pre-release player input?

Hang on a minute, it's still a beta (in fact some even speak of it as still an alpha), so those who have purchased it are asked not to speak about it.
In total, an alpha that has been worked on by paying customers is released as a beta that's intended to be worked on yet more by paying customers so that some time later a book can be published and sold again. But in the meantime, no-one can talk about it. (Marc wins most innovative business model for 2008).
You must be on a turntable as you are repeatig your accusations now.
So I will simply repeat, I have paid one fee.. I am getting this Alpha release as a GIFT and will get T5 when it is released fr no additional cost.

So you are wrong and need to understand that or be ignored.

And as icing on the cake, the announcement of T5 on the FEE web page has a typo.
ok, slit Marc's wrists for a typo...

I know, I know, I know, I don't have to buy T5. True, I'm not going to touch it with a barge pole. And I know others are entitled to throw their money and their time where they want to. I'm just commenting on the farcical and amateur way the whole thing has/is being handled.
And I am glad I can provide another view point. You are welcomed to your Traveller Universe and your beliefs. I am just disappointed that you have not verified your facts.

Marc Grossman
 
Yesss :)

I got my copy of T5 in the mail yesterday, in Sweden.

Haven't got time to read it properly, of course, but it looks pretty cool by first looks...

Thanks Marc and everyone who has contributed here on the forums :)
 
Yesss :)

I got my copy of T5 in the mail yesterday, in Sweden.

Haven't got time to read it properly, of course, but it looks pretty cool by first looks...

Thanks Marc and everyone who has contributed here on the forums :)

Glad I could help :D
Just remember that this is an Alpha so Marc MIller has requested we not talk about it publically yet.

Marc
 
Commander Truestar said:
Just remember that this is an Alpha so Marc MIller has requested we not talk about it publically yet.

It is actually a Beta.
And, while there are no NDAs, MM has asked that public distribution and reviews not be made until the "real" release.
If you are a pre-order customer, you can get access to the private forum which has some very interesting discussions, post any errors you may see, and share impressions relatively freely.
 
And, I've asked him for a T5 promo and highlight document, so we can have something we can all talk about in public...

However, we may have to wait until he gets away from his grandkids for more work...
 
It is actually a Beta.
And, while there are no NDAs, MM has asked that public distribution and reviews not be made until the "real" release.
If you are a pre-order customer, you can get access to the private forum which has some very interesting discussions, post any errors you may see, and share impressions relatively freely.
Is this something that is still ongoing, as of right now??? If so, I'm very tempted.
 
Is this something that is still ongoing, as of right now??? If so, I'm very tempted.

Yup, I joined up about 2 weeks ago. Been have a blast reading all the information. One of the things that I like about how they are doing is that you can go back to the very beginning when DonM started this and read all the way up to current.

It not only makes for some interesting reading but you can see where it is heading also. Of course the War of the Roses might be more interesting read to most people.
:rofl:

Dave Chase
 
Wow... But that Mouth of Marc stuff goes a bit far...

But the CD is still for sale, and yes, we are still developing.
 
However, we may have to wait until he gets away from his grandkids for more work...
That is going to be really tough, depending on how young they are. Speaking as a new grandpa myself. :)

Story: While awaiting the birth of the grandbaby, was talking to his father, my son. Both him and his wife are gamers, (wonder where they got that from) One of his gaming friends was complaining that the new baby would disrupt the game, that my son and his wife would have to drop out. My son replied, "Nonsense. He is a baby, he is going to be in a car seat most of the time they are gaming."

"But he is going to grow. What are you going to do when he gets bigger?"

"We have a portable play pen. We'll just put him in that."

"But after he outgrows that? Then what are you going to do?"

"Get him his own character sheet and dice. Duh"

Sorry for the hijack, I am a new grandpa.
 
Agh, my poor Baroness. Already upset at the time devoted pouring over the CT CD-rom and a stack of MGT books.

I of course want to order, but i need to understand what I am ordering. If I buy this, will I have to buy the "real" release of T5 again?

What form are these files in? Pdf?

Do the mechanics work?

Can you build ships and such?

Make characters?
 
Yes, I would like to echo the Baron's question.


When I ordered the T5 CD, I was expecting the final release - am I going to get that, whenever it is done? Or will I need to buy it again?

(I've only briefly skimmed the CD, so far it looks fairly nice.)
 
As far as I'm aware, the T5 pre-orders have always been for the preliminary edition, which comes on CD as PDFs. You also gain access to the T5 development forums, and there's an update mechanism which we're experimenting with.

The only edition of T5 that is at all "for sale" is the preliminary edition; if you order today, you'll get development forum access and the updates. In fact, Marc sent me an e-mail saying he was going to take a break from Grandkids to process new orders and send me a list...

Because I have several e-mails and PMs requesting such access, but no updates from Marc yet :(

But soon!
 
As far as I'm aware, the T5 pre-orders have always been for the preliminary edition, which comes on CD as PDFs. You also gain access to the T5 development forums, and there's an update mechanism which we're experimenting with.

Well, I know that seems to be the case now. But I don't recall it being advertised like that, when I ordered.

This seems to be the original text


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Traveller5 is nearly complete.

It's full of material: Character Generation, Androids, Robots, Clones, Worlds, Starships, Small Craft, Adventures, and more.

Come see more at our web page:

http://www.farfuture.net/

We are in the last stages of completing an extensive initial CD-ROM version of T5 by Jan 31 totaling about 1000 electronic pages. Order now, and we'll send you our special offer now and the CD-ROM as soon as it rolls of the press.

We have a special offer on the web site. Come see what we have.

BONUS!

We'll ship on or about Jan 31, 2008. Pre-order now and we'll send you the printed black DVD Traveller5 Case Wrap (the same one that will be on your Traveller5 CD-ROM package when we ship it), plus four bonuses:

1. Our Mini-Map of the Spinward Marches,
2. The Traders' Guild Guide to Starships,
3. The Mini-Traders' Guild Guide to Starships, and...
4. The Wilderness Traveller (800-ton Speculative Trader) 4-view.

www.farfuture.net
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Note the phrase - Traveller 5 is nearly complete.


I probably wouldn't have ordered it, had I realized that was only going to be "alpha/beta/playtest" stuff.

I hope we'll at least be able to continue to get the final PDFs as downloads.
 
Yep. It was delayed, but it was clearly referred to as a preliminary edition as advertised.

The "development forum" access was added later, in part to make up for the delay in release, in part to give pre-orderers access as soon as the text was developed, and in part to give the members of the Traveller community a chance to contribute to and comment on the project as it was (re) developed. I think it has been good for the participants as well as those more directly involved in the development process.
 
We are in the last stages of completing an extensive initial CD-ROM version of T5 by Jan 31 totaling about 1000 electronic pages.

As is clear from my posts, IMO the T5 development/release process has not been optimal exactly--but Marc always did make it clear that the CD we'd be getting would be an Alpha/Beta version, not the definitive thing.

That said, off the top of my head I don't recall whether or not he ever announced that the final version would be made available as PDF free of charge to those who preordered. That would be a nice gesture (and it's how Paizo are handling the Pathfinder release as well, IIRC).

I mean, if that final version were published as a book as well, we'd all be buying it anyway, PDF or not. So, no sales would be lost.
 
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