Surviving Ships in the Hard Times

[mike wightman]

I agree with the general consensus here that the large ship will have blasted each other to bits - that's what happens when TL15 fleets fight TL15 fleets

IMHO Naval architects will learn from these mistakes and produce better designs - if using HG as your ship building/combat model then I would expect lots of munchkin class 1900t escorts, 19900t light cruisers, and 74kt battle cruisers, not to mention drop tanks being used to provide strategic mobility (tenders could pick up discarded drop tanks, and bases would supply replacements).

Most of these would also be destroyed by the Hard Times period though, unless held in reserve or new build for one final push.

I also agree that there will be lots of the 5kt and smaller ships surviving, with pocket empires probably taking standard designs and modifying them to fill a new role, e.g. think of all the modifications you could fit into a hull as simple as the fat trader or the x-boat tender.

 

[Border Reiver]

Agreed with Sigg. Survival Margin and others hint at a new direction in tactics in Hard Times. Moving to commerce raiders and their ilk, small, fast and hard hitting.Any surviving capital ships would become prestige targets, to be eliminated and salvaged if possible.

The Covenanter (IIRC) class from TNE also points down an interesting route. Piece together a starship from whatever hulls are available.

There was also an interesting article in Challenge entitled Ships of the Black War. I think it was by Charles Gannon but cannot recall the issue. Good reading and stats for a variety of ships.

 

[Border Reiver]

Agreed with Sigg. Survival Margin and others hint at a new direction in tactics in Hard Times. Moving to commerce raiders and their ilk, small, fast and hard hitting.Any surviving capital ships would become prestige targets, to be eliminated and salvaged if possible.

The Covenanter (IIRC) class from TNE also points down an interesting route. Piece together a starship from whatever hulls are available.

There was also an interesting article in Challenge entitled Ships of the Black War. I think it was by Charles Gannon but cannot recall the issue. Good reading and stats for a variety of ships.

 

[Border Reiver]

Agreed with Sigg. Survival Margin and others hint at a new direction in tactics in Hard Times. Moving to commerce raiders and their ilk, small, fast and hard hitting.Any surviving capital ships would become prestige targets, to be eliminated and salvaged if possible.

The Covenanter (IIRC) class from TNE also points down an interesting route. Piece together a starship from whatever hulls are available.

There was also an interesting article in Challenge entitled Ships of the Black War. I think it was by Charles Gannon but cannot recall the issue. Good reading and stats for a variety of ships.

 

[parmasson]

Most of these would also be destroyed by the Hard Times period though, unless held in reserve or new build for one final push

I agree
I don’t think many new big hulls would be laid down toward the end. I am not too familiar with MT but it sounds like new construction might be expensive in an economic situation where “A” grade starports are a rare thing. It sounds like what was the Imperial economy is grinding to a halt. Where is the money going to come from?

I also agree that there will be lots of the 5kt and smaller ships surviving, with pocket empires probably taking standard designs and modifying them to fill a new role, e.g. think of all the modifications you could fit into a hull as simple as the fat trader or the x-boat tender.

What about reactivating old ships? Like the BB-11 from the “Fighting Ships” sourcebook? A bunch of antique battleships lumber back into service.

 

[parmasson]

Most of these would also be destroyed by the Hard Times period though, unless held in reserve or new build for one final push

I agree
I don’t think many new big hulls would be laid down toward the end. I am not too familiar with MT but it sounds like new construction might be expensive in an economic situation where “A” grade starports are a rare thing. It sounds like what was the Imperial economy is grinding to a halt. Where is the money going to come from?

I also agree that there will be lots of the 5kt and smaller ships surviving, with pocket empires probably taking standard designs and modifying them to fill a new role, e.g. think of all the modifications you could fit into a hull as simple as the fat trader or the x-boat tender.

What about reactivating old ships? Like the BB-11 from the “Fighting Ships” sourcebook? A bunch of antique battleships lumber back into service.

 

[parmasson]

Most of these would also be destroyed by the Hard Times period though, unless held in reserve or new build for one final push

I agree
I don’t think many new big hulls would be laid down toward the end. I am not too familiar with MT but it sounds like new construction might be expensive in an economic situation where “A” grade starports are a rare thing. It sounds like what was the Imperial economy is grinding to a halt. Where is the money going to come from?

I also agree that there will be lots of the 5kt and smaller ships surviving, with pocket empires probably taking standard designs and modifying them to fill a new role, e.g. think of all the modifications you could fit into a hull as simple as the fat trader or the x-boat tender.

What about reactivating old ships? Like the BB-11 from the “Fighting Ships” sourcebook? A bunch of antique battleships lumber back into service.

 

[far-trader]

I can see some, maybe whole fleets even, deciding to hibernate through some of the war. Put those frozen watch lowberths to good use and have the whole crew and ship go dormant for a few years (or longer, by accident or design) and come back good and fresh as new ready to rebuild the Imperium or pick up the fight.

 

[far-trader]

I can see some, maybe whole fleets even, deciding to hibernate through some of the war. Put those frozen watch lowberths to good use and have the whole crew and ship go dormant for a few years (or longer, by accident or design) and come back good and fresh as new ready to rebuild the Imperium or pick up the fight.

 

[far-trader]

I can see some, maybe whole fleets even, deciding to hibernate through some of the war. Put those frozen watch lowberths to good use and have the whole crew and ship go dormant for a few years (or longer, by accident or design) and come back good and fresh as new ready to rebuild the Imperium or pick up the fight.

 

[kafka47]

Dan, I believe the term that you are searching for is Mothball fleets. Plenty of these existed across the Imperium, however, I think the Black War and the grab by System Navies when Pocket Empires began to form depleted the bulk of them. Naturally, like SDB there could be Underwater bases (say under Europa) or Fleets that have been grounded but that still makes us biased toward a Small Ship Universe. I wouldn't mind seeing Mothball fleets exist somewhere in the area of Oort Cloud.

Now, there is an adventure thought...for TNE...a hairy star (comet) that appears every 15 years or so which then rains death upon the heathens.

In reality, this is a mothballed Capital Starship, which has been infected by rather nasty form of Virus and also a more belovant form which keeps the ship circling the Main Star at extreme orbits.

The players have been contacted by the good god of the snows to try to disconnect the evil god of War/lightning from the Holy Mainframe or at least plunge INS Snowdog into the Sun. Zombified corpses of the Imperial Marines who believe they are fighting an Imperial/factional enemy because the hardware in their HUDs has been corrupted by the hostile Virus and/or hostile Virus has been doing some Medical Experiments thanks to the autoMed facilities on board to awaken the Marines...

 

[kafka47]

Dan, I believe the term that you are searching for is Mothball fleets. Plenty of these existed across the Imperium, however, I think the Black War and the grab by System Navies when Pocket Empires began to form depleted the bulk of them. Naturally, like SDB there could be Underwater bases (say under Europa) or Fleets that have been grounded but that still makes us biased toward a Small Ship Universe. I wouldn't mind seeing Mothball fleets exist somewhere in the area of Oort Cloud.

Now, there is an adventure thought...for TNE...a hairy star (comet) that appears every 15 years or so which then rains death upon the heathens.

In reality, this is a mothballed Capital Starship, which has been infected by rather nasty form of Virus and also a more belovant form which keeps the ship circling the Main Star at extreme orbits.

The players have been contacted by the good god of the snows to try to disconnect the evil god of War/lightning from the Holy Mainframe or at least plunge INS Snowdog into the Sun. Zombified corpses of the Imperial Marines who believe they are fighting an Imperial/factional enemy because the hardware in their HUDs has been corrupted by the hostile Virus and/or hostile Virus has been doing some Medical Experiments thanks to the autoMed facilities on board to awaken the Marines...

 

[kafka47]

Dan, I believe the term that you are searching for is Mothball fleets. Plenty of these existed across the Imperium, however, I think the Black War and the grab by System Navies when Pocket Empires began to form depleted the bulk of them. Naturally, like SDB there could be Underwater bases (say under Europa) or Fleets that have been grounded but that still makes us biased toward a Small Ship Universe. I wouldn't mind seeing Mothball fleets exist somewhere in the area of Oort Cloud.

Now, there is an adventure thought...for TNE...a hairy star (comet) that appears every 15 years or so which then rains death upon the heathens.

In reality, this is a mothballed Capital Starship, which has been infected by rather nasty form of Virus and also a more belovant form which keeps the ship circling the Main Star at extreme orbits.

The players have been contacted by the good god of the snows to try to disconnect the evil god of War/lightning from the Holy Mainframe or at least plunge INS Snowdog into the Sun. Zombified corpses of the Imperial Marines who believe they are fighting an Imperial/factional enemy because the hardware in their HUDs has been corrupted by the hostile Virus and/or hostile Virus has been doing some Medical Experiments thanks to the autoMed facilities on board to awaken the Marines...

 

[far-trader]

Nope, not so much mothballed, though that's a good idea too, as like the Sollie's old Phoenix program. Cached war materiel (and personnel) ready for the new offensive, just waiting for the order to be sent to activate. I think these could escape Virus notice being expected to be top secret with the activation requirements known only to a few and comitted to memory.

Mothballed fleets on the other hand are likely to be in Depot systems and well known and long ago pillaged by the active forces, destroyed in battle or found out by Virus.

Neat idea with the long orbit.

Another thought with this of course is the old "never told the war was over" plot. This IN Fleet comes out of hibernation and thinks it's been months and the war is still raging when in fact it's been much longer, the war is over, and somebody has to convince them of the fact before they destroy an innocent system. What faction are they? Will they listen to reason? If you tell them their leaders, cause, and families are long dead are they going to care or just fight on until destroyed themselves in a kind of death wish?

 

[far-trader]

Nope, not so much mothballed, though that's a good idea too, as like the Sollie's old Phoenix program. Cached war materiel (and personnel) ready for the new offensive, just waiting for the order to be sent to activate. I think these could escape Virus notice being expected to be top secret with the activation requirements known only to a few and comitted to memory.

Mothballed fleets on the other hand are likely to be in Depot systems and well known and long ago pillaged by the active forces, destroyed in battle or found out by Virus.

Neat idea with the long orbit.

Another thought with this of course is the old "never told the war was over" plot. This IN Fleet comes out of hibernation and thinks it's been months and the war is still raging when in fact it's been much longer, the war is over, and somebody has to convince them of the fact before they destroy an innocent system. What faction are they? Will they listen to reason? If you tell them their leaders, cause, and families are long dead are they going to care or just fight on until destroyed themselves in a kind of death wish?

 

[far-trader]

Nope, not so much mothballed, though that's a good idea too, as like the Sollie's old Phoenix program. Cached war materiel (and personnel) ready for the new offensive, just waiting for the order to be sent to activate. I think these could escape Virus notice being expected to be top secret with the activation requirements known only to a few and comitted to memory.

Mothballed fleets on the other hand are likely to be in Depot systems and well known and long ago pillaged by the active forces, destroyed in battle or found out by Virus.

Neat idea with the long orbit.

Another thought with this of course is the old "never told the war was over" plot. This IN Fleet comes out of hibernation and thinks it's been months and the war is still raging when in fact it's been much longer, the war is over, and somebody has to convince them of the fact before they destroy an innocent system. What faction are they? Will they listen to reason? If you tell them their leaders, cause, and families are long dead are they going to care or just fight on until destroyed themselves in a kind of death wish?

 

[savage]

Well I guess I deviated from the norm. I did the "hidden bothballed fleet"/ "depot not completely gone" in my campaign. And it worked well with traveller buffs participating... However any odd force needs limitations. For the Virus and Regency its instability. For my Commonwealth it was limited resources and external pressures....

But back to the reason its possible to do this... bad information. Does everyone have 100% knowledge of every military installation? Could a rich company have a special squadron hidden somewhere? Do vargr imbelish on the facts?

The odds of something surviving is pretty high but how would the owners have the knowledge and resources readily available?

One of my friends had the "hidden" sleeping fleet waiting for the next war in his campaign. We had several problems integrating it into our plans. It was a 50+yrs old force without updates. Think of taking a WWII fleet and integrating into a modern force? kinda difficult.

Savage

 

[savage]

Well I guess I deviated from the norm. I did the "hidden bothballed fleet"/ "depot not completely gone" in my campaign. And it worked well with traveller buffs participating... However any odd force needs limitations. For the Virus and Regency its instability. For my Commonwealth it was limited resources and external pressures....

But back to the reason its possible to do this... bad information. Does everyone have 100% knowledge of every military installation? Could a rich company have a special squadron hidden somewhere? Do vargr imbelish on the facts?

The odds of something surviving is pretty high but how would the owners have the knowledge and resources readily available?

One of my friends had the "hidden" sleeping fleet waiting for the next war in his campaign. We had several problems integrating it into our plans. It was a 50+yrs old force without updates. Think of taking a WWII fleet and integrating into a modern force? kinda difficult.

Savage

 

[savage]

Well I guess I deviated from the norm. I did the "hidden bothballed fleet"/ "depot not completely gone" in my campaign. And it worked well with traveller buffs participating... However any odd force needs limitations. For the Virus and Regency its instability. For my Commonwealth it was limited resources and external pressures....

But back to the reason its possible to do this... bad information. Does everyone have 100% knowledge of every military installation? Could a rich company have a special squadron hidden somewhere? Do vargr imbelish on the facts?

The odds of something surviving is pretty high but how would the owners have the knowledge and resources readily available?

One of my friends had the "hidden" sleeping fleet waiting for the next war in his campaign. We had several problems integrating it into our plans. It was a 50+yrs old force without updates. Think of taking a WWII fleet and integrating into a modern force? kinda difficult.

Savage

 

[kafka47]

INTU, I usually had the Imperial Navy being the prime institution of the Imperium. Having said that the Imperial mainframes would be backed to hilt with all sorts of electronic countermeasures that would be been designed to tharwth any virus, including Virus. However, the protocals for activation were not always known hence the ability to keep the secret alive. Usually, these things were in organic respositories (actually brains of individuals ~ kinda like RNA memory implants but more sophisticated) these would be passed down from generation to generation.

However, most individuals do not know that they are carrying a code until they grab hold of a command wand or similarly access their deep memory. And, even then these couriers were only having partial access, as only a Flag Admiral or greater rank could provide the decoder.

Thus, many of the great secrets of the 3i when down with the 3I only to be brought to life at a later time and place...