Surviving Ships in the Hard Times

[Golan2072]

What types of ships do you think would survive through the Rebellion to the Hard Times and beyond (i.e. into my Virus-less 1138 alternate universe)?

My general idea is that everything BIG (100Kdton+) would usuyally be totally wiped out, with a few lingering relics (think Andromeda); anything from 20Kdton to 100Kdton would be a rare superweapon relic (a few surviving in bad shape here and there); 10Kdton to 20Kdton would survive, but will still be quite rare; below that, due to massive amounts produced during the "Golden Era", ship classes will survive.

Also, surviving high TL ships would probably slowly erode as only a few worlds could provide them with maintainance and repairs. Even in the better-off areas (i.e. where no major battles have been fought), TL12+ worlds are rare, with the avarage (in these areas) going somewhere between 6 and 11 for space-capable worlds. So TL11- designs, especially cheap ones, will be maintainable; higher TLs will have problems with making their yearly maintainance as well as combat repairs.

 

[Golan2072]

What types of ships do you think would survive through the Rebellion to the Hard Times and beyond (i.e. into my Virus-less 1138 alternate universe)?

My general idea is that everything BIG (100Kdton+) would usuyally be totally wiped out, with a few lingering relics (think Andromeda); anything from 20Kdton to 100Kdton would be a rare superweapon relic (a few surviving in bad shape here and there); 10Kdton to 20Kdton would survive, but will still be quite rare; below that, due to massive amounts produced during the "Golden Era", ship classes will survive.

Also, surviving high TL ships would probably slowly erode as only a few worlds could provide them with maintainance and repairs. Even in the better-off areas (i.e. where no major battles have been fought), TL12+ worlds are rare, with the avarage (in these areas) going somewhere between 6 and 11 for space-capable worlds. So TL11- designs, especially cheap ones, will be maintainable; higher TLs will have problems with making their yearly maintainance as well as combat repairs.

 

[Golan2072]

What types of ships do you think would survive through the Rebellion to the Hard Times and beyond (i.e. into my Virus-less 1138 alternate universe)?

My general idea is that everything BIG (100Kdton+) would usuyally be totally wiped out, with a few lingering relics (think Andromeda); anything from 20Kdton to 100Kdton would be a rare superweapon relic (a few surviving in bad shape here and there); 10Kdton to 20Kdton would survive, but will still be quite rare; below that, due to massive amounts produced during the "Golden Era", ship classes will survive.

Also, surviving high TL ships would probably slowly erode as only a few worlds could provide them with maintainance and repairs. Even in the better-off areas (i.e. where no major battles have been fought), TL12+ worlds are rare, with the avarage (in these areas) going somewhere between 6 and 11 for space-capable worlds. So TL11- designs, especially cheap ones, will be maintainable; higher TLs will have problems with making their yearly maintainance as well as combat repairs.

 

[jfetters]

Interesting take.

Not only from a TL perspective, but from a sheer manpower perspective - the factions will not have the ability to train the number of people to crew those huge ships in the time required.

So, in the end, the "flagship" type vessels will be your High-Lightning class vessels, and most will be Kinunir-type craft.

The Regency (or whatever it is IYTU) will still have the big guns...

 

[jfetters]

Interesting take.

Not only from a TL perspective, but from a sheer manpower perspective - the factions will not have the ability to train the number of people to crew those huge ships in the time required.

So, in the end, the "flagship" type vessels will be your High-Lightning class vessels, and most will be Kinunir-type craft.

The Regency (or whatever it is IYTU) will still have the big guns...

 

[jfetters]

Interesting take.

Not only from a TL perspective, but from a sheer manpower perspective - the factions will not have the ability to train the number of people to crew those huge ships in the time required.

So, in the end, the "flagship" type vessels will be your High-Lightning class vessels, and most will be Kinunir-type craft.

The Regency (or whatever it is IYTU) will still have the big guns...

 

[Whipsnade]

2-4601,

That's pretty much the situation as presented in Hard Times, Assignment: Vigilante, and another late MT product I can't remember of the pre-Virus 'Black War' period. Most factions are using ships below 5000dTons is size due to construction, maintenance, and manning concerns.

One important thing to note is that these ships are the ones actively deployed in the Wilds and contested areas around each faction's 'Safe' region. Each faction still has a battle or 'Home' fleet consisting of pre-Rebellion sized vessels, but those vessels are simply too precious to risk using in any but the most important of operations.

So, you'll see 'real' ships - that is pre-Rebellion style ships - sitting around centers like Dlan, Usdiki, Vland, Warinir, Anaxias, Antares, and Dingir while the 'small' stuff is bsuily working places like the Dagudashaag, Zarushagar, and Diaspora Sectors.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[Whipsnade]

2-4601,

That's pretty much the situation as presented in Hard Times, Assignment: Vigilante, and another late MT product I can't remember of the pre-Virus 'Black War' period. Most factions are using ships below 5000dTons is size due to construction, maintenance, and manning concerns.

One important thing to note is that these ships are the ones actively deployed in the Wilds and contested areas around each faction's 'Safe' region. Each faction still has a battle or 'Home' fleet consisting of pre-Rebellion sized vessels, but those vessels are simply too precious to risk using in any but the most important of operations.

So, you'll see 'real' ships - that is pre-Rebellion style ships - sitting around centers like Dlan, Usdiki, Vland, Warinir, Anaxias, Antares, and Dingir while the 'small' stuff is bsuily working places like the Dagudashaag, Zarushagar, and Diaspora Sectors.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[Whipsnade]

2-4601,

That's pretty much the situation as presented in Hard Times, Assignment: Vigilante, and another late MT product I can't remember of the pre-Virus 'Black War' period. Most factions are using ships below 5000dTons is size due to construction, maintenance, and manning concerns.

One important thing to note is that these ships are the ones actively deployed in the Wilds and contested areas around each faction's 'Safe' region. Each faction still has a battle or 'Home' fleet consisting of pre-Rebellion sized vessels, but those vessels are simply too precious to risk using in any but the most important of operations.

So, you'll see 'real' ships - that is pre-Rebellion style ships - sitting around centers like Dlan, Usdiki, Vland, Warinir, Anaxias, Antares, and Dingir while the 'small' stuff is bsuily working places like the Dagudashaag, Zarushagar, and Diaspora Sectors.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[kafka47]

Also, remember there would be all sorts of raider type vessels that would be the natural result of the breakdown of fleets into smaller units. Scattered around the battlefields one could find the hulks of the bigger Capital ships but outfitted on a much smaller level, meeting the needs of the local Planetary Navy just have a sufficient deterant against pirates (walk softly and carry a big gun).

Plus, in Vilani space you are likely to see lots of Fat Traders and reinventions of the sort of ships we are going see in Interstellar Wars.

 

[kafka47]

Also, remember there would be all sorts of raider type vessels that would be the natural result of the breakdown of fleets into smaller units. Scattered around the battlefields one could find the hulks of the bigger Capital ships but outfitted on a much smaller level, meeting the needs of the local Planetary Navy just have a sufficient deterant against pirates (walk softly and carry a big gun).

Plus, in Vilani space you are likely to see lots of Fat Traders and reinventions of the sort of ships we are going see in Interstellar Wars.

 

[kafka47]

Also, remember there would be all sorts of raider type vessels that would be the natural result of the breakdown of fleets into smaller units. Scattered around the battlefields one could find the hulks of the bigger Capital ships but outfitted on a much smaller level, meeting the needs of the local Planetary Navy just have a sufficient deterant against pirates (walk softly and carry a big gun).

Plus, in Vilani space you are likely to see lots of Fat Traders and reinventions of the sort of ships we are going see in Interstellar Wars.

 

[Golan2072]

I think that the "real" ships will be very small in munber even in the few remaining Safes - especially in Lucan's Safe - the more desperate things have become, the more the factions would be willing to neglect the defense of theor Safe for the sake of that (long-shot) "last chance to win the War". Sure, some polities won't get that mad, but Lucan (and Dulinor too - see the "Coronation Fleet") are VERY prone to such acts.

And the old battlefields are going to be prime grazing grounds for "scavengers" - complete with all-out wars between corsair bands over who gets to rip that still-functioning (though barely) Particle Barbette from that half-ruined Imperial hulk...

 

[Golan2072]

I think that the "real" ships will be very small in munber even in the few remaining Safes - especially in Lucan's Safe - the more desperate things have become, the more the factions would be willing to neglect the defense of theor Safe for the sake of that (long-shot) "last chance to win the War". Sure, some polities won't get that mad, but Lucan (and Dulinor too - see the "Coronation Fleet") are VERY prone to such acts.

And the old battlefields are going to be prime grazing grounds for "scavengers" - complete with all-out wars between corsair bands over who gets to rip that still-functioning (though barely) Particle Barbette from that half-ruined Imperial hulk...

 

[Golan2072]

I think that the "real" ships will be very small in munber even in the few remaining Safes - especially in Lucan's Safe - the more desperate things have become, the more the factions would be willing to neglect the defense of theor Safe for the sake of that (long-shot) "last chance to win the War". Sure, some polities won't get that mad, but Lucan (and Dulinor too - see the "Coronation Fleet") are VERY prone to such acts.

And the old battlefields are going to be prime grazing grounds for "scavengers" - complete with all-out wars between corsair bands over who gets to rip that still-functioning (though barely) Particle Barbette from that half-ruined Imperial hulk...

 

[Elliot]

An alternative take is what could the degraded technologies of local pocket empires manufacture and outfit - I suspect armoured merchants are going to be the upper limit - i.e. max 400 tons.

I am playing out this is my hypothesis in my current Terran Confederation 1248 campaign. The main enemy from this is a surving viral starship factory from the Guilded Lilly era that supplies armed merchats to local reaver worlds to slow down and harrass the progress of the Terrans.

That way the viral world can keep its warship and escort back for protection.

 

[Elliot]

An alternative take is what could the degraded technologies of local pocket empires manufacture and outfit - I suspect armoured merchants are going to be the upper limit - i.e. max 400 tons.

I am playing out this is my hypothesis in my current Terran Confederation 1248 campaign. The main enemy from this is a surving viral starship factory from the Guilded Lilly era that supplies armed merchats to local reaver worlds to slow down and harrass the progress of the Terrans.

That way the viral world can keep its warship and escort back for protection.

 

[Elliot]

An alternative take is what could the degraded technologies of local pocket empires manufacture and outfit - I suspect armoured merchants are going to be the upper limit - i.e. max 400 tons.

I am playing out this is my hypothesis in my current Terran Confederation 1248 campaign. The main enemy from this is a surving viral starship factory from the Guilded Lilly era that supplies armed merchats to local reaver worlds to slow down and harrass the progress of the Terrans.

That way the viral world can keep its warship and escort back for protection.

 

[mike wightman]

I agree with the general consensus here that the large ship will have blasted each other to bits - that's what happens when TL15 fleets fight TL15 fleets

IMHO Naval architects will learn from these mistakes and produce better designs - if using HG as your ship building/combat model then I would expect lots of munchkin class 1900t escorts, 19900t light cruisers, and 74kt battle cruisers, not to mention drop tanks being used to provide strategic mobility (tenders could pick up discarded drop tanks, and bases would supply replacements).

Most of these would also be destroyed by the Hard Times period though, unless held in reserve or new build for one final push.

I also agree that there will be lots of the 5kt and smaller ships surviving, with pocket empires probably taking standard designs and modifying them to fill a new role, e.g. think of all the modifications you could fit into a hull as simple as the fat trader or the x-boat tender.

 

[mike wightman]

I agree with the general consensus here that the large ship will have blasted each other to bits - that's what happens when TL15 fleets fight TL15 fleets

IMHO Naval architects will learn from these mistakes and produce better designs - if using HG as your ship building/combat model then I would expect lots of munchkin class 1900t escorts, 19900t light cruisers, and 74kt battle cruisers, not to mention drop tanks being used to provide strategic mobility (tenders could pick up discarded drop tanks, and bases would supply replacements).

Most of these would also be destroyed by the Hard Times period though, unless held in reserve or new build for one final push.

I also agree that there will be lots of the 5kt and smaller ships surviving, with pocket empires probably taking standard designs and modifying them to fill a new role, e.g. think of all the modifications you could fit into a hull as simple as the fat trader or the x-boat tender.