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Sub-Sector / Sector Size

Is there any official/semi-official use of a sub-sector that is not 8x10 hexes? What about a Sector that is not 4x4 sub-sectors?

The reason I ask is that I was trying to imagine how the other major races view the universe and I find it hard to believe that every known race would use the counter-intuitive (at least to me) 8x10 RECTANGLE to represent space.

I am NOT trying to debate the 2D vs 3D universe. I am interested in something that could be used to add flavor to an OTU campaign where the aliens don't see the universe the same way we do.

For example, I envision that the 8x10 sub-sector is the product of some Vilani Bureaucrat from the First Imperium. Only a bureaucrat would try to make the infinite universe fit into an non-symmetric pattern.

I also figure that the early Terrans probably hadn't thought about how to divide up the universe when they first encounted the Vilani, so they adopted the Sub-Sector from the First Imperium during the Rule of Man (why re-invent the wheel?). The Third Imperium would also use the 8x10 sub-sector because they wanted to show continuity to the previous empires and most of their stellar data would have been in that format.

The Third Imperium would impose it's 8x10 system on any space they were producing a map for, but what would a K'Kree map look like? What about a Zhodani map?

Here is what I envision for the other major empires:

Vargr:
Use the 8x10 sub-sector because of their long contact with the Vilani and they are too disorganized to come up with one of their own.

Aslan:
Use an 8x8 sub-sector since they are a base-8 culture.

Zhodani:
Use a 10x10 sub-sector because that seems more "natural" to me as a human with 10 fingers.

Hiver:
Use a Hex Grid, similar to the Jump-6 map. This would reflect their radial symmetry.

K'Kree:
They use a 12x12 sub-sector and no sector divisions. This reflects their hexapod origins.

Droyne:
Use whatever method is in use by the culture they are part of, but Grandfather and theirfore ancient maps, probably have something different. Maybe this is the origin of the 8x10 sub-sector?

Darrians:
Use the imperial system now, but probably the old TL 16 maps use a different system, perhaps 10x10?

Sworld Worlds:
Use a 10x10 system for the same reasons that the Zho's use it and also because it is different than the Third Imperium.

For those that don't think that this is important, I ask you to look at the Imperium Map. Notice that most, if not all of the Coreward border is aligned to a Sector edge? Also in the Spinward Marches, the Spinward border of the Imperium is an almost straight line following the Sub-Sector borders.

As an aside, I took the existing map of the Solomani Rim and changed the sub-sector to a 10x10 pattern and put Terra in Hex 0505. Made for some interesting observations with regards to what important systems were in what new political region.

Am I the only one that wonders about these things???? :confused:
 
IMTU I have allowed the players to discover antique jump charts based on concentric circles - think about the ripple marks in a zen garden.

I liked the idea so much that I decided it was how the Aslan do their jump charts too ;)
 
I'm sure 10x10 is more natural to humans, but how well does it fit on a 10x8 page?

Strangely enough Sigg, one of my group came up with a circular jump chart, a bit messy to look at but very useful. I saw the image as like raindrops on a pond.
 
Border Reiver: That is NOT what I was trying to start!


I know perfectly well WHY the game traveller uses 8x10 maps, I was trying to explain it in gaming terms. Too much of the coreward and spinward border of the Imperium use these artificial borders as real borders. BUT, that is what people do; look at the US/Canada Border along the 49th parallel (I think that's it) One long straight line.

I wonder if the Coreward border with the Vargr was defined by Treaty after the Julian War?

Any official sitings of non-standard maps?
 
That is an interesting proposal. I've never really thought of the extent of the Julian War. I know the Menderes Corp was active throughout the extents. Mmmm...

I've never seen any "official" non standard maps, but they sound like a good idea.
 
Hey, if we used ugly 9x9 grids, the current world could be in the dead center...
 
Originally posted by Plankowner:
Notice that most, if not all of the Coreward border is aligned to a Sector edge? Also in the Spinward Marches, the Spinward border of the Imperium is an almost straight line following the Sub-Sector borders.
Plankowner,

You're looking at the border from too great a 'height'.

Go to this site: Scolling Map Site and look at the actual Imperial coreward border.

Am I the only one that wonders about these things????
Yes.


Bill
 
Wasn't there something in one of the books that says that this system breaks down outside of Charted Space? Or was that the 1 parsec per hex?
 
Hey, if we used ugly 9x9 grids, the current world could be in the dead center...
I was excited to hear about Supplement 10 but very disappointed when I finally received it. Most of the known stars missing, no references to them either. So, I began tinkering with my own.


IMTU the range of early Terran probes delineated what the subsector size was. A bit smaller than a jump-6 grid, with 3 x 3 subsectors equalling a sector.
 
Originally posted by Sir Dameon Toth:
Wasn't there something in one of the books that says that this system breaks down outside of Charted Space? Or was that the 1 parsec per hex?
The system works for a belt about 1000pc wide around the galactic center, I think.
 
Bill, thanks for the reference, I guess the border with the Vargr states isn't as straight as I remembered. Oh well.

DLO: Considering that Traveller uses a 2D map, it would be basically impossible to show every "real" star. I had a bigger problem with the fact that the directions to some of the nearer stars were off, some by as much as 60 degrees relative to Coreward/Rimward. I would have expected better. Traveller 2300's 3D map was pretty good and you could compare the Solomani Rim map to that map and it really emphasized the problems. But, games are games and the writers can only do so much.

ROB: A 9x9 grid, huh, never thought of that. The closest I came was to redraw the Solomani Rim using a 10x10 with Terra at 0505. When you kept all the political boundaries it gave in interesting way to look at the region. Several of the near-by sub-sector naming stars were now part of the "Terran Sub-Sector". I had to rename a lot of the areas.
 
IMTU I use hexagonal shaped sub-sectors (10 one parsec hexes "wide")and a group of 7 sub-sectors, 1 central plus 6 surrounding, for a sector. It just made it easier to scale up using standard hex graph paper of the day. So one hex on a large scale map can represent a sub-sector at one level and a sector at a higher level.

I wonder about these things too. As I've gotten older I wonder why the sectors are so regular? Someone needs to introduce Gerrymandering to the 3I. ;)
 
Plankowner, there was a thread somewhere else around here about non-traditional mapping schemes. There was some interesting info (a lot of it about 3D maps).

I know the Aslan would probably be looking at 8x8 grids, and I would think Hiver maps would be totally inscrutable (read: unreadable by us). ;)

Ptah, I don't think the Vilani could even grasp the concept of gerrymandering. I would think Vilani subsectors would be a precise size defined out to 8 decimal places, and based on the ratio of two nominally unrelated atomic elements. Even if the end result split a star right in half.
 
Originally posted by Fritz88:

Ptah, I don't think the Vilani could even grasp the concept of gerrymandering. I would think Vilani subsectors would be a precise size defined out to 8 decimal places, and based on the ratio of two nominally unrelated atomic elements. Even if the end result split a star right in half.
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I think it might be best to remove that offending star. It just shows how the universe needs the gentle hand of the Vilani to tidy things up. I hear Vilani scientists are also working on a device to change the laws of the universe so pi becomes a rational number. You really can't have constants like that running around. ;)
 
Originally posted by Ptah:
I think it might be best to remove that offending star. It just shows how the universe needs the gentle hand of the Vilani to tidy things up. I hear Vilani scientists are also working on a device to change the laws of the universe so pi becomes a rational number. You really can't have constants like that running around. ;) [/QB]
Sadly, that happened in the real world! Some politician introduced a bill in his state congress to make Pi = 3.25 because it was too hard for his kids otherwise :eek:
 
Originally posted by Ptah:
IMTU I use hexagonal shaped sub-sectors (10 one parsec hexes "wide")and a group of 7 sub-sectors, 1 central plus 6 surrounding, for a sector. It just made it easier to scale up using standard hex graph paper of the day. So one hex on a large scale map can represent a sub-sector at one level and a sector at a higher level.

I wonder about these things too. As I've gotten older I wonder why the sectors are so regular? Someone needs to introduce Gerrymandering to the 3I. ;)
There is no reason that administrative and military districts have to adhere to cartographical units. For example, IIRC the small bits of Imperial territory in Glimmerdrift Reaches (I think) "belongs" to the Ley and Delphi sectors administratively.


There is another example, in the BattleTech game and novels; in the Federated Commonwealth, the sub-sector equivalents are shaped extremely irregularly. The rationale, IIRC, was that this way, at whichever point an enemy attacked he would have to face several sub-sectors´ forces to penetrate the border regions.


In Traveller, I´d probably make, for example in the Spinward Marches, every Imperial system within jump range of Zhodani-held systems one military sub-sector, all within jump range of the Sword Worlds another sub-sector, the worlds within jump range of the various Vargr polities a third subsector - and then pool the rest into one or two core region, whose military units act as a central reserve.
 
I know that there is no real reason to adhere to cartographical units, but it is human nature to do so. Sub-Sectors have Dukes, well most of them). Why should the territory of a Duke be in this shape? Wouldn't something like a Jump-6 map make more sense for controlling territory? After all, Regina is tucked away in the corner of the subsector. I think Lunion is divided between Regina and

The truth is, people will make boundaries if they don't already exist. Those self-imposed boundaries will also color how they interact with the area around them. Remember the old film "Footloose"? They had the dance in an old granery because it was just across the tracks from the county limits. An artificially imposed boundary that people (bureauracracies) took as a real boundary.

I just thought it would be interesting to think about how the other races might make their maps and then use that to come up with some adventure hooks. If a certain group of worlds fall inside one sub-sector using an Aslan map, but inside another sub-sector on an Imperial map. How the two nations treat that group of worlds will be more based on how they treat the rest of the sub-sector it lies in. That is all I was trying to say.

Regarding Military Districts being different than Sub-Sectors, you may very well be right. If I was the Admiral of the Spinward Marches, I might do something like that with my fleets. BUT, the political map (sub-sectors) would still be important when dealing with the local Nobility.
 
Originally posted by Fritz88:
Might the Aslan map be octagonal? You know, something with 8 sides?
You can´t fill an area with octagons. Not without gaps in it. You need regular triangles, rectangles or regular hexagons for that.

But - Aslan have four fingers, I gather? - Aslan might prefer squares over hexagons.
 
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