Strategy in FFW

[PBI]

Originally posted by GrognardJeff:
In Fifth Frontier War the Zhodani player has the option of using 2 secret bases Quare and 871-438 and setting up a third one.

Which of the two fixed bases do people like to use and why?
What units do you start there?

Where do you like to place your mobile secret base and why?

To be technical, there is only one secret base, which is where the Fulacin battalion, a 1-14 elite infantry, appears when activated. The other two, Quare and 871-438, are not bases, per se, but fall under the surprise attack optional rule.

My group uses all the optional rules, including the surprise attack option.

I've never seen a Zhodani player not use Quare. There is no penalty for doing so, and it means that Firenze falls on Turn 1 (and Lanth on T4 or T5, if you time it right). As to how big a fleet I start on Quare, that depends on what I want to do in Firenze/Lanth subsectors. If I'm just trying to take Firenze and Lanth, I'll put a minimum force together, using as many tanker assets as needed (and tanker assets are almost always needed), which has 18 bombardment after the garrison for Quare and Firenze has been factored out. I'll also include an assult carrier with a field army and a corps (for Lanth and D'Ganzio), and at least one division to deal with Ficant. If I have extra troops lying about after the other fleets have gotten theirs, I might put the extras with the Quare force.

Sometimes I make the force using Quare one of my three assault forces, which means it gets one or two assault carriers, both tankers, and enough bombardment for 42, preferably 48, factors excluding the Quare and Firenze garrisons. That fleet would help the Swordies grab Vilis, then would make its way for Lanth. If the Imperial colonial forces catch it at Lanth and crush it, it will certainly hurt, but killing or substantially reducing the Colonials might just give the Zhodani the game, so it's a fair strategic trade. Once Lanth is reduced, that fleet would then move into the Spinward Main.

Alternatively, I'll form two fleets in Querion subsector, one at Querion, one at Quare. The Quare force will take Firenze, then head for Lanth, while the follow-on fleet will help the Swordies at Vilis, then move up towards Regina via Denotam and Miriam. Both fleets would have a minimum bombardment of 18.

I very rarely, if ever, use 871-438, for two reasons. The first is, only streamlined squadrons can be assigned, so that means cruisers and assault carriers. While a rather nice force can be assembled, the main reason for doing so is to hit Regina or Ruie, then Regina on Turn 1 and take it quickly. That requires 24+ bombardment, and getting that much bombardment from Zhodani cruisers usually means that most of the cruiser strength is devoted to that fleet, stripping away valuable armour, bombardment strength, and garrisons from the other fleets. The second reason I almost never use 871-438 is that the Imperium then has a 4 in 6 chance to detect the build up, which then allows the Imperium to conduct pre-war plotting. I've found that the delay in Imperial movements, even if just a single turn, can work to the Zhodani advantage much more than hitting Regina on Turn 1 does.

As for the secret base, I'm a bit of a traditionalist

It's almost always at Fulacin

 

[The Oz]

I agree with PBI. There's no downside for using Quare, so why not? It gets some of your forces there faster and there's nothing the Impies can do about it.

I also agree about 871-438. Why give the Impies a free move? If you don't use it you can be sure where the Impies will be on turn 1.

As for the secret base, the worry that it might show up at Fulacin is usually enough to make the Impies put a troop unit there.

A couple of other places it can go, and why:

Uakye/Regina - worth 13 VPs, B-class starport, right next to Efate/Regina. No gas giant here, so the planet is the only fuel source.

Wypoc/Lanth - worth 12 VPs, C-class starport, jump-2 past Regina.

Echiste/Lanth - worth only 10 VPs, but a C-class starport on the way to Rhylanor. No gas giant here either.

Ficant/Vilis (E-class, 5 VPs) or
Stallatio/Vilis (D-class, 4 VPs) or
728-907/Vilis (D-class, 0 VPs)- No gas giants in any of these system but if you take one with the secret base before your fleet arrives you can refuel your streamlined squadrons in zero time. Add in tanker support for the rest of your fleet and you might just get to Lanth (or Regina, from 728-907) one turn earlier than the Impies expected you to.

 

[JeffreyAllanBeeler]

What are the effects of the Imperials not being able to plot any movement for the first four turns?

How do you handle it?

Do the Imperials plot their turn five movement or less if their admiral is better etc on turn one

or their turn ten movement on turn five unless their admiral's planning factor is better?

I realize scouts and Admirals with a zero planning factor like Regina do not plot.

Also how do you usually place your initial admirals based on their planning factors?

 

[PBI]

First, the Imperials are only restricted from plotting on turn one. Nothing in the rules says they can't plot for the first 4 turns. Even the Zhodani don't have to, unless a fleet doesn't have an admiral, as the admiral planning rules will negate any plot that goes beyond the plotting factor.

So, how we handle it is that the Imperials can't move on turn 1, except for scouts and well-led fleets, and that during the turn 1 plotting phase, things proceed normally.

Now, if that's not the true intention of the rules, then the rules really are hideously written.

As for how we place our admirals (myself and my friend I game with), that's actually undoing a bit of a re-think.

We'd come up with what seemed to be an unbeatable Zho strategy of leaving the excess corps and armies mostly in the Querion subsector so as to discourage the usual (for us, anyway) Imperial raid using cruisers and the plethora of high-quality battalions the Imperials have. This pretty much took the steam out of the Imperial attempt to grab enough VPs to last until the T10-15 period.

Our normal Imperial strategy was to take the Efate force (plus whatever J4 ships were drawn, if any) and race for the Vargr while the Jewell force (plus any J3s in the draw) raced for the off map box and all those troops. Any J5+ ships formed a raiding group packed with battalions and/or regiments and hit Querion and/or the DMZ. The J4 scout was usually placed at Regina to spirit the Duke to the Rimward box ASAP. As for the other admirals, we usually didn't give the raiding force an admiral, as that force was written off. Efate usually got either the fastest or best in combat, with Jewell next and any excess Admirals at Rhylanor (and they went off-map ASAP, too).

Now, though, we're trying an Imperial experiment where the Efate force stays at Efate as a reaction force, trying to liberate worlds as fast as the Zho take them. This requires the fastest admiral the Imps have, aside from the Duke, who now also gets a single squadron of J5+ or the J4 scout and races for the Rim. Jewell runs for the reinforcements box and we no longer raid. The J2 colonials are given a fleet and a plotting 4 admiral. Excess admirals are placed at Rhylanor.

The overall strategy is to use 0 and 1 plotting admirals to command J4 fleets, usually no more than 3 or 4, each carrying a 5C-15 armour, to retake worlds in the Regina subsector and along the Main while the Duke and the Rim forces take back Lanth and then pause while a replacement J4 fleet is organized before heading off to the Swordies. We're using the J3 fleets that accumulate from the T10+ stuff to carry the war to the Zhodani.

Thus far, after 3 games, we're still tweaking things, but we've found that instead of the game ending around T12, we're now well into T20+ with the Imperium holding its own. We've yet to see whether this new strategy of being purely defensinve at first is going to work, but we have high hopes.

 

[JeffreyAllanBeeler]

OK my friend and I have taken the plunge and started setting up a game of FFW while I wait for the PBEM to start.

One thing how do the Jewell forces escape from Jewell without getting hammered nad which route do they take?

Two thing are there any ideal setups for the Zhodani player?

What bombardment levels should he be looking for?

 

[JeffreyAllanBeeler]

OK my friend and I have taken the plunge and started setting up a game of FFW while I wait for the PBEM to start.

One thing how do the Jewell forces escape from Jewell without getting hammered nad which route do they take?

Two thing are there any ideal setups for the Zhodani player?

What bombardment levels should he be looking for?

 

[PBI]

First, the escape route of the Jewell force depends heavily on how strong it is (and sometimes not even then). The Imperium's main rpoblem is not having enough fleet markers, so the actual survival of the Jewell force is not as important as is getting the fleet marke to the reinforcements box. Having said that, it's not a good idea, generally, to throw away any viable (J3+) combat units to the wolves without reason, so it pays to try and run the Jewell force for home.

I usually just try and run the Lysen-Grant gauntlet. Even if the Zhos catch me, I'll lose one or two squadrons and get past Grant before the Zhos can catch me. Assuming, of course, that the Zhos set up so that they're at Lysen on T2. OTOH, if I've decided to use the Jewell force to raid the DMZ, I'll send it down there, but, really, it makes more sense for the Imperium to try and get the Jewell force off-map ASAP. At max jump, it should be arriving off-map around T10, just in time to recevie an influx of ships and possibly organize some sort of counter attack.

There's no one ideal setup for the Zhos. Obviously, all the J2 stuff, scouts incl, will be placed into one big fleet at Riverland, go to Clan, then on to reduce Jewell (and possibly Esalin), then make its "run" into the DMZ, eventually breaking out into the Main in the vicinity of Regina around T10-15. As for the rest, well, you'd want one J3 fleet at Quare, another at Cronor, a third somewhere in the Riverland subsector, and a fourth at Querion, perhaps. Give serious consideration to forming a J4/5 fleet to use either as vacuum raiders or as a force to cross the Farreach-Yres gap on the way to muck up any Imperium attack from the barracks move against the Vargr.

As for Zho bombardment levels, that all depends on whether or not you intend to take Efate and/or Rhylanor. If you intend to leave those alone, I would suggest trying to form forces with a 24-36 bombardment (with the exception of the J2 and J4/5s), and under no circumstances with a bombardment under 18, , taking into account any planned vacuum world targets. Remember, too, that you only have 6 transports, and one of those should be with the J2s, so that leaves 5 to distribute; under no circumstances should the Zho have more than 5 J3 fleets for this reason.

Finally, make sure the Zho scouts are assigned to fleets; they can't really do much good otherwise, and their inclusion can take a good fleet and make it a fearsome bombardment force, or turn an adequate force into a good one. Plus, they serve as armour should the Zho stumble on an Imperial fleet.

 

[JeffreyAllanBeeler]

Obviously, all the J2 stuff, scouts incl, will be placed into one big fleet at Riverland, why is this obvious I thought the Zhodani colonials had free deployment?

So the remnants of the Jewell squadrons run away because unless they have a zero plotting admiral I see them getting squished like bug on turn one most times.

I'll lose one or two squadrons and get past Grant before the Zhos can catch me. Doesn't Jewell have only two squadrons? Do you stack any J3 units with them to start?

For vacumn garrisons what is better and why, small colonial units or small colonial squadrons?

The Imperials are experimenting with starting all the J2 scouts at Feri with the Huscarles and a fleet and an admiral and then heading off to take the Vargr homeworlds by themselves.

I noticed that the Zhos have about as many divisions as they have batrons, coincidence?, I think not.

 

[JeffreyAllanBeeler]

Finally read the Zho deployment rules.

That does change things somewhat.

I also notice that the Zho cannot set up at Narval since it is outside their borders.

 

[PBI]

Originally posted by GrognardJeff:
Obviously, all the J2 stuff, scouts incl, will be placed into one big fleet at Riverland, why is this obvious I thought the Zhodani colonials had free deployment?

The free deployment (which the Zho's don't have for colonial forces) has less to do with it as does the fact that it makes more sense to group like jump units. You wouldn't want to put J3+ in a fleet with J2s, as that would be a waste of the faster units. Additionally, that Zho J2 fleet usually generates some huge bombardment factors, enough to make the 'siege' of Jewell turn into a 3-4 week event.

So the remnants of the Jewell squadrons run away because unless they have a zero plotting admiral I see them getting squished like bug on turn one most times.

All depends on if the Zhos hit Jewell on T1. Personally, I don't see why they would, as any fleet other than the J2 that hits Jewell won't be able to take it fast enough. Plus, in the initial stages, the Zhos want to avoid fleet combat almost as much as the Impies. It's been my experience that bombardment margins are so thin that the loss of even a single sqaudron can effectively slow a fleet down; dropping from at or just above 24, for example, to at or just below 23 means that that fleet is now on the 18 table and that means that it takes longer to take some of those key objectives.

Remember, for the Zhodaniu, speed is the key to victory. Eventually, they won't be able to avoid losses, but the trick is to delay taking those losses as long as possible. The Imperials, because of their greater replacement rate, can afford to take earlier and heavier losses than the Zhodani.

I'll lose one or two squadrons and get past Grant before the Zhos can catch me. Doesn't Jewell have only two squadrons? Do you stack any J3 units with them to start?

Usually, yes, I stack all my initial J3 sqaudrons at Jewell, even if it's only one or two. The larger the fleet, the more of a disincentive for the Zhodani to hit it, and if the Zhos do decide to try and kill it, I'm happier than a pig in poo, because, while I will lose a few sqaudrons, the damage to the Zho offenisive tempo is well worth the sacrifice (providing I don't lose a good admiral doing it). Also see my comment above.

For vacumn garrisons what is better and why, small colonial units or small colonial squadrons?

Squadrons. Always squadrons. Usually the smaller the bombardment factor, the better. Colonial or regular doesn't matter much, as long as the impact on that fleet's bombardment factor is minimal. The J5 crusiers and those 3-1-6 J3 cruisers are ideally suited, as is the 1-1-4 J4 stuff.

Why not troops? The Zhodani can't take territory with squadrons. Every single troop unit the Zhos have is precious, and the Zhos can't afford to be putting troops down on worlds where all the Imperials have to do is show up with an empty 1-2-6 colonial cruiser and take the world back without firing a shot.

The Imperials are experimenting with starting all the J2 scouts at Feri with the Huscarles and a fleet and an admiral and then heading off to take the Vargr homeworlds by themselves.

I wouldn't, for a variety of reasons. The first is that doing so is illegal, because Imperial naval units must start at naval bases, not scout bases, and Feri only has a scout base. Even if it did have a naval base, however, I still wouldn't. It is tempting to attack the Vargr right away, but what if the Vargr leave those batrons behid, or what if the ZHos send a J4 fleet through Yres and then on to the Vargr? Any fleet the Imperials send up there will be wasting its time and its troops as the fleet is eaiter forced to run or is forced to watch as the Zhodani take each Vargr world back a turn or two after the Imperials went through the effort to do so. Also, how are the Huscarles going to deal with that 5C-13 infantry army the Vargr have?

All that aside, why wouldn't the Imperium use the forces at Efate? There's three troop units there, which, coincidentally, is the minumun required to take and hold the Vargr worlds, two of which will be able to take on any Vargr ground forces at or near parity (and perhaps even more if the Imperials draw one of the 1C-15s). Plus, depending on how many J4s the Imperials draw, the fleet at Efate could be rather significant for an early Imperial fleet.

Also, the Imperials don't have enough forces to go splitting into multiple, easily digestible portions. They need to follow the doctrine of concentration of force coupled with economy of force.

The best thing the Imperials could do is to keep the fleet at Efate, at Efate, with a fast admiral, and conduct quick local counter attacks against occupied worlds in the Efate subsector while using Efate as an esstentially unassailable fortress (with a naval base). If the Zho's want to take Efate, then the Imperial player should start celebrating, as any weak Zhodani fleet that comes in will be picked off by Efate's TL13 SDBs, and the average-to-strong fleets will be held up for weeks and weeks trying to hunt those little buggers down as they hide (at a -10). Leave the attack on the Vargr for the reinforcements the Imperials will be getting around T10; you'll do much more damage to the Zho timetable by wiping out their VP gains almost as soon as they accumulate them. But be ready to change over to the attack in an instant, however, if the situation turns dire.

I noticed that the Zhos have about as many divisions as they have batrons, coincidence?, I think not.

You're right

That's because they're configured for offence, while the Imperials are mostly configured for defence with all those 5C-15 armoured armies

 

[JeffreyAllanBeeler]

How do you use the J2 scouts then?

The J3 can start at Jewell I think and the J4 at Efate or as Regina's yacht.

 

[JeffreyAllanBeeler]

I was thinking set them up with the Porozolo assault carrier to give it some bombardment or on Balent to help with the assault on the Vargr home worlds.

In your games do you capture any of the neutral worlds between Cronor and the front to make it easier to move up Zhodani reinforcements?

Which is a better Zhodani load out for the 6th AR 1 army or 5 corps?

 

[PBI]

I use the Imperial J2 scouts exactly as you described, Jeff (more or less). I put them with the Equus squadron and pick up the Porozlo assault carrier on the way to link up with the Feri sqaudron. The resulting bombardment is around 24, and carrying the 5C-10 armour from Porozlo and the 1C-11 from Zivijie means that, while small, it's a useful fleet for retaking worlds from the Vargr.

The J3 scout starts at Jewell, and the J4 at Efate or Regina, depending on whether I've gotten any J5+ squadrons in the intitial draw.

Albegaster has to be taken in order to get the fleet starting at Cronor into the Imperium, but as for the others, I let the T10 lads deal with them, and then only the J2s (which need to take 2 systems to pass the gap)

As for what size troops to bring along, it depends, and you have to look at it fleet by fleet. Any fleet heading for Lanth, for example, needs a 5C in order to guarantee it won't be caught by the Imperial T6 reinforcements. It's really a balancing act. The overriding principle must be, however, to maximize the number of troop units in the attack. I've done attacks where I had any army and a corps on each transport and the divisions, brigades, regiments and battalions were carried on batrons, and I've launched others where I carried no troops (or as little as possible) on batrons and put everything else in the transports. Unfortunately, as I said earlier, there's no one correct answer; it really does depend on what the objectives for each fleet will be.

 

[JeffreyAllanBeeler]

I was thinking that one of the main differences between the board game and PBEM is that scouts have to scout and using a J6 or J5 as a super scout might be a good idea.

Going for the Vargr is a good Imperial strategy because you know there should be something there to kill.

 

[hcobb]

Just use Munchkin Missile Boats which should combine a high bombardment factor along with J5 or J6 for scouting.

 

[PBI]

First, there's no way to devise accurate strategy for PBEM, as there's no guarantee how any PBEM will be played. As much as I enjoyed the first PBEM a while back, it wasn't FFW, it was more Traveller at a fleet level.

Also, I never said not to go for the Vargr, just not to go for them right away. It looks good on paper, and seems a common sense approach, but it can easily be countered, with the effect being that the Imperium ends up throwing troops away for nothing more than a fleeting gain. The reason the Vargr (and Sword Worlds) are attacked is to take down the VP by a hefty chunk, but those are more offensive, rather than defensive moves. In the initial stages of the game, the Imperium would be far better served to play defensively, and wait to start retaking worlds from the Zhodani. Once the Imperium Turn 10 reinforcements start to arrive, that's when the Imperium can think about conducting offensive operations.

It'll still be a close-run thing, but after having utilized the agressive strategy as an article of faith, I've come to the conclusion that being to agressive too early against a competent Zhodani player will result in an automatic victory somewhere in the Turn 10-15 range, whereas the less glamourous defensive mode has allowed the Imperium to force the Zhodani to call unilateral cease-fires more often then not.

When the defensive strategy was first proposed in my gaming group, I was dubious at first, too, but decided to take a chance on it, and, contrary to my expectations, it proved remarkably effective. Give it a shot in your own game and see. What's the worst that could possibly happen? Okay, so you lose badly, but still

 

[JeffreyAllanBeeler]

What have been the lengths of the FFW games you have played?

Average

Longest

Shortest

Weirdest Game ie did not turn out at all what you expected?

 

[PBI]

Average is 15 turns, Longest was 68, Shortest was 12.

Wierdest? We had one game where the Zho offensive collapsed crossing the border. They forget to take troops along in some fleets and had to send others to rescue the trapped ones while other fleets forgot to pick up squadrons before heading into the Imperium and had to go grab them later. That same game, the Imperium's counter-attack from the barracks stalled in utter confusion from a series of mis-plots and similar troops mistakes as the Zho had made.

 

[JeffreyAllanBeeler]

Are Imperial Marines considered to be jump troops for the purposes of the optional rule?

 

[PBI]

Originally posted by GrognardJeff:
Are Imperial Marines considered to be jump troops for the purposes of the optional rule?

No. Why would they? They have no jump symbol on them...