Starship Transponders and the Uniform Commercial Code

[Rodina]

It occurs to me the other day that if I'm a bank, lending billions of credits a year on a starship, I'm going to insist that transponders provide - indeed, broadcast - current financial information as soon as a ship hits the system, in addition to ID/velocity/last port-of-call information.

Seems that a system like this would work as follows:

- a ship is always (save emergency overrides in combat situations) broadcasting its info to local traffic control; traffic control picks up this information for navigation, but passes along financial information to the large branch banks and small local banks sort of as public notice.

- in addition a ship routinely broadcasts current financial information about cargo establishing whether or not there are any liens on the goods (mostly, if you are moving capital equipment) (liens on the revenue of parishible goods isn't something I care to get into in this post).

This establishes additional comfort for would-be good faith buyers of goods and alerts banks that a ship may, indeed, have skipped.

Just a ramble... and not a well-formed thought as yet...

 

[MichaelL65]

Well, the idea of a transponder anouncing the ship and it's legal registration might be a good idea, but the broadcast of all the other information is likely to be used by pirates to decide which ships to board or not. Instead of publicly broadcasting such information, perhaps there could be a signal that is on a timed delay, say six months or so before it broadcasts a "reposess me" signal on a bandwidth controlled and accessed only by the banks. When payment is made, a bank technician sends an encoded transmission that resets the timer. The bank can also "ping" the transponder for current loan status.

Of course, someone is bound to try to tamper with such a device to try to skip out on the payments. Tampering with such a device would require forgery, communications, electronics and/or computer skills. Failure would likely result in forfeture of the loan and the bank repossesing the ship and possibly jail time for the owner and perpetrator of the tampering.

Both the device and the tampering are plausable issues, it would be interesting to see how they could play out.

BTW, I really wish there was a spell checker feature in the posting area

 

[trader jim]

this is a very good idea - to be used in civilized space. in the traveller universe ships
could/will be talking to "ground control" they will be talking about EVERYTHING. any thing to do with a ship, maintenance, cargos, finance, customs,tax, finance, and on and on and on, it will be all computerized and captain and ships crew will not even know info is coming in or going out. Port authority will be telling ships where to land, and they will already have crews to load and unload cargos, as ships land. VERY EFFICIENT,also dangerous - just one little error/slipup and what do you got!!!!

 

[Rodina]

Thanks for the comments, guys. Obviously it won't work much beyond Imperial space plus a few Client States. But as I see it, at least IMTU, 99.9+% of all ship tonnage travels within Imperial (or Zhodane, or Julian, or Solomani) borders, so this is a general feature of most starships and certainly there are exceptions.

Let's assume two things (a) some fairly advanced encryption and (b) let's assume that the transponder responds via tight beam laser / radio, so that you gotta ping the ship to get some info (this limits pirates capabilities to be sure)

So any civilized (i.e., TL 8+) system with a C or better starport could ping the transponder and receive the data back.

A starport would then collect the information and publish it, in much the same way as a public record, so that banks could find out whether a ship is -- or is not -- late on its payments.

A local bank generally gets paid by big banks for providing leads on these skipped vessels; they might also get a reward for actually recapturing the ship.

So, as an adventure nugget, a small bank might have info - notwithstanding travel times - that a ship which arrives in system is in fact skipped out on payments. So that small bank, who wants to garner the reward, hires our intrepid Travellers to try to repo the ship.

-----

 

[trader jim]

you could even have "bounty hunters" checking out passagers manifest lists. that could lead to many many kinds of senerios - like those chase scenes in the movies!!! what fun!!! who knows where they would end up!!!

 

[Shadowdancer]

Bounty hunters checking out passenger manifests. And people say "Cowboy BeBop" isn't Traveller-esque.

 

[RabidVargr]

I hate to say it, but in that universe, the only ships I'd loan money to make wouldn't have jump drives. It's a lot harder to skip (sucessfully) if you can't leave the system except very, very slowly...

RV

 

[trader jim]

thrash - excellent catch! good point!!! i think it would not hurt any of us to reread the basics some time. in this day and age the real world?? crosses over to our game world some times, the reality of CNN and FOX NEWS and all the CRAP they foce into our lives can get you. but think about my lat post - thats the way "THEY" would have it!!! NOTHING WILL BE PRIVATE -BIG BROTHER IS NOW WATCHING!!! hers a thought - who elseis reading this post?? just us - i think not!!!! god look at my spelling, i am crashing - later!!

 

[trader jim]

hey vargr dude i was answering thrash first - who said you could cut in!!! go back to your den!!

 

[RabidVargr]

Not only am I better looking (see my pic), I can type faster too!

RV

 

[trader jim]

thats not YOUR picture - i know what you REALLY look like!!!

 

[Rodina]

Sure, MTU is a little intrusive. But it's not that skipping doesn't happen - it's just that it requires very expert electronics guys who can mask and/or tamper with your transponder.

Think of it this way: if most ships pay on time (and most do), no one is going to be overly suspicious when even a beat up starship comes into town. But no one is going to just say, "naaah, I don't think I'm going to pay this month" and skip. Rather, skipping is something you've got to really plan ahead for...

Another thing I've never done - since I've only been an attorney for a few years and that's necessarily limited my Traveller time - is play out some of these more complex financing arrangements that you could have on something as pricey as a starship.

Anyway, thanks for the comments - again - I'll try to type up something more formally about this variant.

 

[vegascat]

Big brother is watching. That could put the merchants at quite a disadvantage in dealings. Also, how many planetary governments are more than a little corrupt? Would you want to sail into Bogata Columbia broadcasting that you were carrying 5 tons of gold, Have a subsector bank account worth 25MCr, carried 2 light cannon, with no onboard gunners, were 2 months behind on ship morgage payments, and had a history of bribing customs agents? That kind of information would insure the merchant was harrased out of business and that would be bad for business.

On the other hand, a IFF beacon listing registry, owners name, and size could be usable for everyone without being intrusive. Have to give the poor little merchants a chance.

-----------------------------
In the end, Murphy will rule

 

[Elliot]

Much of the traveller mercantile conception is geared to the entreprenuerial idea of buying low on world X and selling high on world Y - with a bit of criminality thrown in for good - i.e. Han Solo is the inspiration.

However, in real international commerce (and I suggest traveller commerce) this type of activity is small fry compared to the vast shipping fleets that ply the lanes of the oceans.

These organisation rely on and demand the legal structures such as the UCC (or ICC in Traveller see MTJ 4) to apportion liability for loss if cargoes are damaged/lost/stolen.

For example, Traveller seems to have no conception of the bill of lading where the paper roster represents the cargo and payment is transferred without seeing the goods. The big mega corp fleets transporting thousands of tons of cargo are not likely to operate on a sale by sample basis, its just not economical!

The concept of Traveller commerce is based on the fact that it was supposed to be a frontier game to begin with - hence the Third Imperium had a law of interstellar trade that was more impoverished than 18th and 19th century Terra (where there was no transponder system and distances were more prohibitive than the 1 week in jump idea).

The frontier mercantile entrepreneur idea as the basis of all trade idea falls apart for the 2 or 3 sectors on every side of Capital - It is also a bit unlikely in the Spinward Marches given the way it has been developed with military fleets and X boat networks, etc.

I agree with Rodina (it could be we're both commercial lawyers) that no body with finance to lend is going to give a mortgage for 40 years (yes, that's canon folks)over a trader without either an operational Imperial legal system or the ability to cover losses through insurance (and the insurance company will want to be able to minimise losses through an operational Imperial legal system!).

How do the two canon insurance houses: Lloyd's of London and Hortlez et Cie make their money? The answer must be that commerce is sufficiently stable to be able to take a risk insuring cargo/ships/fleets. IMO this suggests a UCC style code (and there's canon to suggest thats so - see JTAS Laws and Law Breakers).

 

[Rodina]

Originally posted by Elliot:

However, in real international commerce (and I suggest traveller commerce) this type of activity is small fry compared to the vast shipping fleets that ply the lanes of the oceans.

I think this, again, makes for more opportunities for the little guy because unless you have a truly hands-on owner of a large shipping company (e.g., Oberlindes), companies are going to be slow in reacting to big inefficiencies in the market. An inspired far trader should be able to make three or four runs between two worlds before the local official at Tukera lines has gotten approval from the subsector manager to invest trading capital into sixteen hundred tons of 1/8 scale Bronze Sculptures of the Iridium Throne Celebrating Strephn's Golden Jubilee (with real Iridium-like glaze!), which are of course big sellers on Pagaton.


These organisation rely on and demand the legal structures such as the UCC (or ICC in Traveller see MTJ 4) to apportion liability for loss if cargoes are damaged/lost/stolen.

I agree with Rodina (it could be we're both commercial lawyers) that no body with finance to lend is going to give a mortgage for 40 years (yes, that's canon folks)over a trader without either an operational Imperial legal system or the ability to cover losses through insurance (and the insurance company will want to be able to minimise losses through an operational Imperial legal system!).


Indeed, we are both commercial lawyers. (Run away!). Until a while back, I large did power plant financing, so I've actually worked with stuff which is expensive with fixed capital costs but variable input (fuel) costs and output (electricity sales) - not too unlike starship operations.


IMO this suggests a UCC style code (and there's canon to suggest thats so - see JTAS Laws and Law Breakers).

Of course, the forty-year mortgage isn't so bad on a fairly sturdy asset. It could be that the implied interest rate on a starship, which I think is about 5% (I don't have my HP12 so I'm not going to figure it out right now) [did it later, I think its 3.98%] is considerably higher than the natural bank rate.

It may also be that small starship loans are guaranteed by the Imperial or subsector authorities which allow them to be considerably shy of the real risk. This, too, is an interesting conflict - because larger shipping companies will be interested in cutting subsidies of smaller ships. Perhaps there is some mechanism by which an individual loan guarantee can be removed - doubling (or more) the interest rate on a starship loan.

 

[Rodina]

Originally posted by thrash:
Then there are the bureaucrats -- the ones that create, standardize and enforce the "Uniform Commercial Code." Whatever happened to "...a remote centralized government... unable, due to the sheer distances and travel times involved, to exert total control at all levels everywhere within its star-spanning realm"? (Book 4, p. 1) "As a result, the Imperium allows a large degree of autonomy to its subject worlds, calling only for some respect for its overall policies, and for a united front against outside pressures." (Book 5, p. 1)[/QB]

I only mean the UCC (enforced in all 50 states, DC, Puerto Rico, Guam) as a frame of reference not that there is necessarily a UCC in force in the Third Imperium - just that financial companies want and will insist upon more guarantees of their investments.

 

[Elliot]

To contradict myself slightly - I do some sale and carriage of goods litigation for very small scale merchants (companies with 5 lorries max). They have told me that the key to making money against the big freight carriers is flexibility - the ability to go off the scheduled routes at a moments notice. This, I envision, is how the free trader works.

I have also heard (hearsay mind you)that the key to small mercantile operations is picking up 'grey' market work - i.e. taking the risk of trading on the thin line between legality and illegality (such as taking the circuitous route through eastern European countries and entering the EU on less well staffed borders to avoid paying import taxes). Another source of the Travellers free traders trade?

However, there is still no escaping the fact that even small freight carriers purchase their vehicles through credit and secure everything (including their personal possession) with the bank to get that credit. They are also bound by the general Sale of Goods law of each country that regulates who has the risk for loss or defect at anyone time.

In my understanding this legal framework is a general conditions of trade that is present wherever there is organised trading going on.

English commercial law (and US by reason of the institutuion of the common law pre-1776) originates from the medieval Lex Mercatores - the law of merchants that grew organically to meet situations of trade. IMO its quite hard to conceive that the 57th century Imperium has a less coherent commercial legal structure than 15th century Europe.

 

[Rodina]

Elliot -

Great points, all. Perhaps we can collaborate on drafting up an article detailing some aspects of the Imperial Commercial Code? Might be fun.

Your experience with Eastern Europe could be especially useful for having an "extra-Imperial" analogy.

Of course, if it is relevant - and you make a useful case for it - you can still cite English decisions in a brief in this country (obviously, as merely persuasive and largely for historical context, so the English law continues to influence).

I recall in my criminal law class, reading Dudley and Stevens, the professor and I kept making reference to the Monty Python bit about "There is no Cannibalism in the royal navy, and when I say there is no cannibalism, I mean there is a certain amount."

Where are you in London, btw? Do you practice at one of the Inns of Court? And which?

 

[Father Fletch]

Rodina or Elliot, did you ever follow up on this post? I would love to see your work if you did. thanks

 

[BluWolf]

Having not played a game yet I always operated under the assumption that free traders were not moving cargo on lien.

They were paying for a cargo at origin (thus assuming risk) and then getting their profit from whatever the destination would bare.

As I understand it, a lot of small freight (or contract) carriers still operate on this premise even today.