#### lightsenshi

##### SOC-12

HELP!!

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- Thread starter lightsenshi
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HELP!!

1)Determine what armor rating you want

2)add 1 to the rating desired

3)multiply the result by the Armor Factor on the table at the very beginning of the starship design section

Example: The Armor Factor is 25 and you desire an armor rating of 5 : (5+1)*25=150

So, you need to buy (and provide space for) 150 armor units. The cost and space required for each unit depends on the TL.

-Roger

Either the ship is broken or the armor rules need to be clarified. (at least for me!)

unfortunate, since me, you and many others look to the Designs as a guide to designing our own craft. I haven't looked at it extensively, but, did you check the errata file...perhaps this clarifies things...

-Roger

I did and there is nothing about starship armor in the errata that I found.

Does your formula take into account the tech of the armor, mainly the volume per unit?Originally posted by R_Kane:

1)Determine what armor rating you want

2)add 1 to the rating desired

3)multiply the result by the Armor Factor on the table at the very beginning of the starship design section

Example: The Armor Factor is 25 and you desire an armor rating of 5 : (5+1)*25=150

So, you need to buy (and provide space for) 150 armor units. The cost and space required for each unit depends on the TL.

-Roger

I actually developed a long formula for determining the armor tonnage

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">((2*U) + (R - 1)*U) * AF = Armour Tonnage

/\ /\

1st Remaining

Rating Ratings

U = Tons/Unit for a particular Tech Level

R = Armour Rating

AF = Armour Factor of the hull</pre>[/QUOTE]

I know Hunter mentioned one or two issues with the Mercenary Cruiser and other vessels with small craft.Originally posted by R_Kane:

unfortunate, since me, you and many others look to the Designs as a guide to designing our own craft. I haven't looked at it extensively, but, did you check the errata file...perhaps this clarifies things...

-Roger

(desired AR + 1) * (ship tonnage/100) = units of armor required

Where does the Armour Tech Level come into play in the formula?Originally posted by lightsenshi:

(desired AR + 1) * (ship tonnage/100) = units of armor required

The size and cost of an "armor unit" varies with tech level.Originally posted by George Boyett:

Where does the Armour Tech Level come into play in the formula?

Originally posted by George Boyett:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by lightsenshi:

(desired AR + 1) * (ship tonnage/100) = units of armor required

I like the suggested methods for determining Armor USP Rating posted and will probably use both to see which one I like best. However, I still have a need to see if I can understand the examples in THB on p268. The following is how I interpret the write up for the Standard Hull Armor rules:

1. Dispersed Structure (Hull USP 7) may not be

armored.

2. Manufactured hulls, with exception of

dispersed structures, may never have an Armor

USP Rating greater than the ship TL.

3. All manufuactured hulls without additional

armor has an Armor USP Rating 0.

4. Planetoid hulls have a base AR USP of 3 and

can have a maximum Armor USP Rating of ship

TL + 3.

5. Buffered Planetoid hulls have a base AR USP of

6 and can have a maximum Aromr USP Rating of

ship TL + 6.

At least the above points is what I got out of the write up. Is what I wrote near the mark?

From the write up under the heading of Armor USP Rating:

AR USP 0 is the basic hull

To increase Armor USP Rating from 0 to USP 1, or the first layer of armor, a ship must install "TWICE" as many armor units as the armor factor listed in the table on p259 for the hull size and TL of the armor.

Where is the TL factor found?

Example 1: A TL12, 200-ton ship adding armor to move from Aromr USP Rating 0 to 1 must install 8 units of armor.

How is the number of 8 armor units derived?

By using first layer rule of twice the armor factor and the table on p259 gives a 200-ton Armor Factor of 2, I get 2(Twice from the write up) *2AF = 4. Or do they mean 2AF+(2AF*2)=2AF+4=6. Finally ,a third interpretation of the rule is 2*(2AF*2[TL weight?])=2*4AF=8.

Adding additonal armor to the hull, a ship need only allocate an amount of space equal to the armor armor factor specified for the hull size and TL of the armor per +1 improvement in the ship's Armor USP Rating.

Again, Where is the the TL factor found?

Example 2: The same TL12, 200-ton ship could improve its Armor USP Rating to a maximum of 12 (limited by its TL) after installing and additional 44 units of armor (for a total of 52 units).

From the above description I think this is how the 44 armor units is derived. To go from Armor USP Rating 1 to 12 is 11 steps.

(Design Armor USP Rating 12 - Armor USP Rating 1=11)*(2AF*2)=11*4=44.

So basically this is how I think the Armor USP Rule works:

Armor USP 0 to 1 = 2[Twice from write up]*(xAF] from p259]*2[from TL write up p268]).

To determine the Armor USP Rating for any other value up to the ship TL:

(Design Armor USP Rating - Armor USP Rating 1)*(2AF*2[TL write up p268)=# armor units needed.

Total Armor Units = Armor USP Rating 1 units + Design Armor USP Rating units.

I think I may be partially right, but I have a feeling that I am totally out to lunch. Edited 12/22/02 0931 PST

HULL ARMOR TABLE:

Percent 7-9 10-11 12-13 14-15

pf ship 4+4a 3+3a 2+2a 1+a

Formula indicates percentage of ship required for armor (a is desired armor factor) Cost is MCr 0.3 per ton.

Working this formula, I came up with 8 tons for a 200-ton ship at TL 12. So perhaps this works? I'm not sure, might need to be checked out.

Allen

Hence, (AR+1) x (tons/100) x (TL modifier). If you want AR=0, it's (tons/100) x (TL modifier).

I could be wrong, but that's probably how I'll run it.

Allen, is your excerpt from HG supposed to read:

HULL ARMOR TABLE:

Tech Level 7-9 10-11 12-13 14-15

% of ship 4+4a 3+3a 2+2a 1+a

That's what I remember from the good ol' days, and if you look at this table, you'll see that a HG 0-armored hull still takes 1-4% of the available tonnage, dependent upon tech level.

The moral of the story? You really want a TL15 ship. No, scratch that, you really want a TL16 ship. No, scratch that....well, you get the idea.

Yep. I asked Michael Taylor over on another board about this and he said that in the 200 ton ship example, the example is wrong, it should be 4 armor units (which weigh 8 tons) not 8. This keeps the system consistent with High Guard which as I recall from the playtest was the goal wherever possible. Thus, I shall be using that when I build ships.Originally posted by princelian:

IAllen, is your excerpt from HG supposed to read:

HULL ARMOR TABLE:

Tech Level 7-9 10-11 12-13 14-15

% of ship 4+4a 3+3a 2+2a 1+a

That's what I remember from the good ol' days, and if you look at this table, you'll see that a HG 0-armored hull still takes 1-4% of the available tonnage, dependent upon tech level.

The moral of the story? You really want a TL15 ship. No, scratch that, you really want a TL16 ship. No, scratch that....well, you get the idea.

I might add that a Armor 0 ship still has a hull and the lower tech levels that hull will be pretty thick even if it provides no actual benefit in combat. That's how I rationalize it at least

Allen

an Armor factoring of 2 (200 dTon ship)

Double AF for AR 1 (2*2=4)

Mass multiplier for TL12=2

total of 8 Dtons for 4 units armor

so an equation that might work would be:

((armor factoring)+(armor factoring*desired AR))*TL Modifier= dTons of armor to be subtracted from total dTonnage

((armor factoring)+(armor factoring*desired AR))=# of armor units only

so for a TL12 ship with AR12:

(2+(2*12)=26 units armor,

26*(TL12 modifier of 2)= 52 dTons mass

Armor factoring is listed on pg:259 in the Drives and Armor table. TL modifier is listed on pg:268 in the armor decription text.

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