Standard Missile Sizes

[Sifu Blackirish]

Okay, fellow T-geeks. Those books have set on the shelves too long. There's dust on the dice, for Pete's sake! Do something!

I need a brave soul to see if they can find the displacement volume of TRAVELLER standard missiles.

I only remember little pieces: turret 15cm, 50 ton bay 25cm, something like that, from Striker?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

For CT, "Too small" IMHO...

 

[Antony]

The TNE ones were 7 cubic meters (half a displacement ton) much bigger than earlier versions, though it is possible to build smaller ones.

 

[BlackBat242]

CT turret missiles (standard designs): mass = 50kg (110lb), length = 1 meter (3.28'), diameter = 15 cm (5.9").


Non-standard missiles may be built using Special Supplement 3 Missiles (insert in Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society issue #21), but while their mass may vary, their dimensions will remain the same.

 

[Khan Trav]

Wasnt there something in there about missile performance. Like the warhead seperating into more than one piece and rolling 1D6 to determine the number of hits? Or am I imagining things again?

 

[selunatic2397]

Missile strikes do 1d6 in hits, so I think the separating part might be just a memory error.

Although I use kinetic impact warheads that I can borrow the split into 6 segments for a roll 1d6 for a shotgun effect....hmmm...just have them roll for the location of each 1 point of damage segment...

Thanks for the great idea!!!

 

[Starviking]

Wasnt there something in there about missile performance. Like the warhead seperating into more than one piece and rolling 1D6 to determine the number of hits? Or am I imagining things again?

1D6 was the roll for the number of hits from a TNE Detonation Laser Missile.

 

[Icosahedron]

For CT, with a list diameter of 15cm and a guessed length/diameter ratio of around 8:1, each missile should have a volume of around 0.02m^3.

Assuming a packing factor of perhaps 0.5, you'd get 25 to the m^3 or 350 to the dT.

Unless it's too early in the morning for my brain to do the maths.

As stated above, They're pretty small compared with a standard turret.

 

[ThunderChilde]

There are mutliwarhead torpedoes in MGT HG.
Missiles/small
Torpedoes/big

 

[Andrew Boulton]

15cm is fine for a tank/arty shell, but it's tiny for an an anti-ship missile.

TNE went too far the other way, though.

 

[BlackBat242]

For CT, with a list diameter of 15cm and a guessed length/diameter ratio of around 8:1, each missile should have a volume of around 0.02m^3.

Assuming a packing factor of perhaps 0.5, you'd get 25 to the m^3 or 350 to the dT.

Unless it's too early in the morning for my brain to do the maths.

As stated above, They're pretty small compared with a standard turret.

No, 100cm (1 meter) x 15cm = 6.667:1 L/D ratio.

17,671.46 cm3 (assuming a cylinder), .01767m3


SS3 lists the following warheads:
HE* - 2 hits per 10kg
FFE** - 4 hits per 10kg
FI*** - 10 hits per .1kt + 2 hits radiation per .1kt
ER**** - 8 hits radiation per .1kt (+5 hits per .1kt "in contact")
FU***** - 10 hits per .1kt + 2 hits radiation per .1kt


* High Explosive TL 6+
** Focused-Force Explosive (directional shaped-charge) TL 9+
*** Fusion (atomic)(.1-10kt) 30kg; TL8+
**** Enhanced Radiation (neutron)(.1-10kt) 20kg; TL9+
***** Fusion (thermonuclear)(no upper limit: 1,000,000cr/.1kt) 20kg @ TL 10+(40kg & .2kt minimum @ TL8/9)

 

[Hyphen]

Dear Folks -

There's some discussion on this topic on my "Mayday Missiles Modified" page...

On my site (link below), go to:
---> Tavonni Repair Bays
---> House Rules
---> Mayday Missiles Modified

 

[Theophilus]

15cm is fine for a tank/arty shell, but it's tiny for an an anti-ship missile.

TNE went too far the other way, though.

Actually, I disagree, true, the TNE missile is much larger than the pipsqueaks used in CT, but they are not too large for a ship killing missile. Using the 6/1 length to diameter ration which is fairly standard for most missile and rockets, a TNE shipkiller is comparable to a real life missile today.

Now for game play I agree, no longer will a pc run across the ship with a missile cannister in hand hoping to save the day. Still, imagine the group of engineers and gunners trying to move that 3 meter diameter, 18 meter long monster across the ship to the only working missile launcer.

 

[Starviking]

Still, imagine the group of engineers and gunners trying to move that 3 meter diameter, 18 meter long monster across the ship to the only working missile launcer.

That's considerably larger than the standard TNE missile (7m3) - are there decimal points missing?

 

[Theophilus]

No. I used the Excel spreadsheet, for TNE ship design, set for a cylinder, adjusted the l/d ratio to 6/1, and got a large missile. I know it seems large, but I double checked and thats the size I got.

I rendered the various missile sizes in a 3D setting, comparing to the size of the average human. Yeah, TNE missiles are large.

Consider that a standard 1ton displacement is 14 cubic meters, so a one meter square would be 14 meters long. Is that correct for 14 cubic meters? Or 14 one meter cubes placed end to end.

 

[Theophilus]

Or in american english measurements:
square 39.37 inches, 551.18 inches in length
thats 45.93 feet

 

[Theophilus]

Put another way, theres no reason a space missile must be cylindrical or streamlined, so:
a 2m x 2m squard, 3.5 m in length, or 6.5x6.6x10.5 feet, the size of a small bedroom.

Point made. a missile in TNE is Large.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

A 3m*18m missile would be 9dt.

A 7m3 (0.5dt) 6:1 missile is 1.14m*6.84m. Still pretty huge.

 

[far-trader]

Might be there's something wrong with said spreadsheet if you typed in a 1/2ton or 7m3 hull for your missile/ship design.

A 3m*18m missile would be 9dt.

A 7m3 (0.5dt) 6:1 missile is 1.14m*6.84m. Still pretty huge.

Indeed. Too big to fit in a TNE 3dton turret I think (being a 3.5m high deck and just under 4m in diameter). As noted space missiles don't need to be streamlined, but from early CT they can be used for planetary bombardment so they generally are. A reasonable form factor for the TNE version might be (a somewhat chunky squared cylinder, like a large StarTrek proton torpedo) about 3.5m long by 1.0m high and 2.0m wide (gross packaged dimensions, not actual missile dimensions). Fitting within the turret is at least reasonable then

 

[Antony]

The standard 0.5dt missile if it was a cylinder with a 7 cubic meter volume would be Length 4.8 meters, Diameter 1.36 meters. (pi * r^2 * length) an actual cylinder with these dimensions would not fit in a standard TNE turret at all (height of 4.2 meters and diameter 3.6 meters) I assume a flared tail to shorten the length sufficiently to fit so I go with the diameter as the average figure.