Evo Plurion
SOC-12
Has anyone tried to run a Traveller or other SF RPG set in our Solar System, before FTL travel? I'm considering developing a Traveller rules variant or entirely homemade ruleset based on such an idea.
Solar System RPG
- Thread starter Evo Plurion
- Start date
GURPS: Transhuman Space could be right up your street. It's set in 2100, with no FTL. Genetic engineering, nanotech, AI, and memetics are starting to take hold. There are some big colonies in the inner system and a few tens of thousands of peple out past Mars. The most advanced of the deep space posthumans have a low-sapient AI helping their brain out and extra hands where their feet should be.
Another option would be Jovian Chronicles setting from Dreampod 9, running on their very elegant Silhouette rules system. This is maybe a bit more adventure-oriented as a setting and a bit less of a cerebral simulation in the GURPS mode.
You'll find reviews of either at www.rpg.net
Another option would be Jovian Chronicles setting from Dreampod 9, running on their very elegant Silhouette rules system. This is maybe a bit more adventure-oriented as a setting and a bit less of a cerebral simulation in the GURPS mode.
You'll find reviews of either at www.rpg.net
Evo Plurion
SOC-12
Thanks, Morte. I'm particularly interested in hearing about anyone's experiences running or playing in such a setting - GURPS TH, Traveller or what have you.
I'd like to set a Solar System campaign in 2030 AD. I may be optimistic in my predictions, but what the hell. In thirty years I probably won't be playing this game if I'm proven wrong. 30 years in the future is the furthest I can forsee and still get a realistic projection of technologies. Basically all the technologies in this setting have their roots today. The concepts behind which these technologies operate are easily understandable to us today, if the technological implementation is somewhat beyond us. The chronology is something like this:
A breakthrough in materials science allows the creation of a superstong lightweight ribbon made out of carbon nanotubes that is 50 time stronger than steel. This allows for the contruction of the first space elevators in 2020 AD and for mass migration into space. Then in the next 13 years a modified version of Gerard O'Neill's space colonies are constructed in high Earth orbit. Solar Powered Satellites are built and delivered to Geosynchronius orbit and beam power back to Earth via microwaves, or by superconducting wire run along a space elevator.
A bit of Robert Zubrin's vision is also enacted. The Moon and Mars are colonized, and the Asteroids are mined and settled. Growth in the World Economy is explosive with these sudden breakthroughs in technology, much like the Era at the beginning of the 20th century with the invention of the Automobile, Airplane, telephone, and Radio taking off. Cities are built in space and the migration continues apace until the beginning of the game setting 2034 AD. At this time the computer/electronic revolution has reached its pinacle with the first Artificial Intelligence software that is the equal of humans. Much like the setting in the upcoming movie "I Robot" These robots and computers are new, and the full impact of their existance has yet to be fully felt. Basically these robots can do anything a human can do, although the tend to be specialized in their area of expertise and not as flexible as a human being. (Think of the Droids in Star Wars). Robots are still supporting cast actors, not yet the prime movers of society, but that time is not far off. Technology has moved rapidly, yet society has not yet fully adapted. The map on Earth looks familiar to us, most of the important nations and multinational corporations have space colonies. China has become a Superpower and is making its way into a Solar System that is already occupied by more established space powers: The US, Canada, Europe, Japan, Israel, Australia, Russia, Korea. The Multinational corporations that have their own space colonies are also based in one of these areas. Individual colonists are usually either hired by these corporations or they strike out on their own with the support of the multinationals Corps. The typical rocket is an Ion drive, a mass driver, Vasmir plasma rocket. The typical power plant is either Solar Powered of a fission reactor. Fusion power is just comming online, but those power plants are huge and only the largest of ships can possibly have them.
A breakthrough in materials science allows the creation of a superstong lightweight ribbon made out of carbon nanotubes that is 50 time stronger than steel. This allows for the contruction of the first space elevators in 2020 AD and for mass migration into space. Then in the next 13 years a modified version of Gerard O'Neill's space colonies are constructed in high Earth orbit. Solar Powered Satellites are built and delivered to Geosynchronius orbit and beam power back to Earth via microwaves, or by superconducting wire run along a space elevator.
A bit of Robert Zubrin's vision is also enacted. The Moon and Mars are colonized, and the Asteroids are mined and settled. Growth in the World Economy is explosive with these sudden breakthroughs in technology, much like the Era at the beginning of the 20th century with the invention of the Automobile, Airplane, telephone, and Radio taking off. Cities are built in space and the migration continues apace until the beginning of the game setting 2034 AD. At this time the computer/electronic revolution has reached its pinacle with the first Artificial Intelligence software that is the equal of humans. Much like the setting in the upcoming movie "I Robot" These robots and computers are new, and the full impact of their existance has yet to be fully felt. Basically these robots can do anything a human can do, although the tend to be specialized in their area of expertise and not as flexible as a human being. (Think of the Droids in Star Wars). Robots are still supporting cast actors, not yet the prime movers of society, but that time is not far off. Technology has moved rapidly, yet society has not yet fully adapted. The map on Earth looks familiar to us, most of the important nations and multinational corporations have space colonies. China has become a Superpower and is making its way into a Solar System that is already occupied by more established space powers: The US, Canada, Europe, Japan, Israel, Australia, Russia, Korea. The Multinational corporations that have their own space colonies are also based in one of these areas. Individual colonists are usually either hired by these corporations or they strike out on their own with the support of the multinationals Corps. The typical rocket is an Ion drive, a mass driver, Vasmir plasma rocket. The typical power plant is either Solar Powered of a fission reactor. Fusion power is just comming online, but those power plants are huge and only the largest of ships can possibly have them.
Straybow
SOC-14 1K
I think the reverse will be more likely: interplanetary expansion will trail economic development on Earth. Without Travelleresque grav tech lifting costs are too high by exponential factors of ten.
A radical new structural material is insufficient to drive economics of space exploitation, unless perhaps space is the only place the material can be produced. But then the material becomes more expensive relative to material strength than ground-made materials.
A radical new structural material is insufficient to drive economics of space exploitation, unless perhaps space is the only place the material can be produced. But then the material becomes more expensive relative to material strength than ground-made materials.
How about energy? Energy is more freely available in space than it is on Earth and Spaceshipone has flown. Its just a matter of time before private enterprise takes over space travel leaving government agencies and their billion dollar spacecraft in the dust. A space elevator would eliminate our dependence on rockets and turn access to space into a simple mechanical problem. There is alot of economic potential in space that would be exploited one launch costs are down. Anyway the technology of the 2030s is more concrete than the nanotech driven future of the 2100s. One has to give some implausible excuse as to why computer technology has lagged and why human beings still have a significant role to play in the Solar System. Its easier to advance space science than it is to lag computer technology for 100 years.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
A much earlier GURPS setting called Terradyne (copyright 1991) may be of interest to you.
It is set in 2120 and could be described as Transhuman Space without the biotech and AIs.
It is set in 2120 and could be described as Transhuman Space without the biotech and AIs.
Centauri Knights for BESM and written by David Pulver who went on to write Transhuman Space.
There's a BESM d20 version as well. The original version is OOP now though available as a ebook.
Very nice. I think it's a little more playable out of the book than Transhuman Space is, much as I like Transhuman Space.
Casey
There's a BESM d20 version as well. The original version is OOP now though available as a ebook.
Very nice. I think it's a little more playable out of the book than Transhuman Space is, much as I like Transhuman Space.
Casey
Sigg Oddra said,
If I'm overly optimistic in prediciting mass space travel by 2030, so what? People in the 1970s predicted the same thing by 2000 and they were wrong. I think that gives me more of a chance of being right due to the process of elimination. I think part of the problem is that the US government made space travel look so hard, they spend billions of dollars at it and didn't accomplish very much. Entreprenuers were discouraged from investing in space transportation except for a few people who were considered excentric. Now that SpaceShipOne has reached space, perhaps the majority of venture capitalists will reconsider. If the excentrics can actually build a spaceship that works perhaps they weren't so nutty in the first place, perhaps some may actually know what they are doing. I think alot more people are going to consider private space travel now. Investment dollars should be easier to come by now that the concept is being proven. OK, so we didn't have Lunar Vacations in the 30 years from 1970 does that automatically mean that we must wait 100 years or should we try for another block of 30 years? If I'm wrong I'll be almost 70 by that time and unlikely to wait another 30 years, for now it makes a perfectly suitable setting.
Computer technology is advancing quite rapidly on the other hand, it seems to me that if humans don't break out into space in the next 30 years, they never will. If you want to play a character in a realistic Solar System Adventure circa 2100, you will be playing either a robot or a cyborg or augmented human. At the rate computer technology is advancing, computers will certainly be able to out think humans by 2100; by 2030 however they should be about even, that is the main reason I prefer 2030. The next 30 years is our next chance to do it ourselves, afterwards computers and robots will do everything for us if they don't replace us and Humans will not find anything really useful to do.
Why do you think we have to wait until the 22nd century before we go into the Solar System? What's so hard about space travel that it takes 150 years to accomplish? Aren't you aware that 100 years is a long time? A lot was accomplished in the 20th century for instance with regards to transportation. in 1900 we had no heavier-than-aircraft and our lighter-than-air aircraft flew only at the mercy of the wind. Cars were a recent invention and most travelled by horse or horse and buggy; We've gone from that to Jet aircraft, and cars have driven horses off the highways. Also in the 20th century we've developed electronic computers, wireless networks, the Internet and even achieved spaceflight. And now you think the next 100 years will pass as if nothing happened. We might as well cut the 21st century out of the history books and have the next year after 1999 be 2100.
If I'm overly optimistic in prediciting mass space travel by 2030, so what? People in the 1970s predicted the same thing by 2000 and they were wrong. I think that gives me more of a chance of being right due to the process of elimination. I think part of the problem is that the US government made space travel look so hard, they spend billions of dollars at it and didn't accomplish very much. Entreprenuers were discouraged from investing in space transportation except for a few people who were considered excentric. Now that SpaceShipOne has reached space, perhaps the majority of venture capitalists will reconsider. If the excentrics can actually build a spaceship that works perhaps they weren't so nutty in the first place, perhaps some may actually know what they are doing. I think alot more people are going to consider private space travel now. Investment dollars should be easier to come by now that the concept is being proven. OK, so we didn't have Lunar Vacations in the 30 years from 1970 does that automatically mean that we must wait 100 years or should we try for another block of 30 years? If I'm wrong I'll be almost 70 by that time and unlikely to wait another 30 years, for now it makes a perfectly suitable setting.
Computer technology is advancing quite rapidly on the other hand, it seems to me that if humans don't break out into space in the next 30 years, they never will. If you want to play a character in a realistic Solar System Adventure circa 2100, you will be playing either a robot or a cyborg or augmented human. At the rate computer technology is advancing, computers will certainly be able to out think humans by 2100; by 2030 however they should be about even, that is the main reason I prefer 2030. The next 30 years is our next chance to do it ourselves, afterwards computers and robots will do everything for us if they don't replace us and Humans will not find anything really useful to do.
BrennanHawkwood
SOC-12
Except that the radical new structural material is what allows a solution to the lift cost problem by way of making the consturction of a workable space elevator possible.
This site has a fair amount of information on current research and development related to space elevators:
http://www.liftport.com/
Tom: it's not the difficulty that will limit us to at least 100 years, its the lack of political will.
There is little need for governments to engage in space exploration. The primary continuing reason is to "show the flag", rather than a serious desire to go anywhere.
Also, we don't NEED to get people off-planet yet. Now, a lunar penal colony might not be a bad idea... can we say "Hypermax?"
In the long run, we need a base elsewhere in system to guarantee we won't be taken out by asteroids. A not-quite-big enough comet hitting earth, say over a major city, would probbly do the trick to motivate the governments.
There is little need for governments to engage in space exploration. The primary continuing reason is to "show the flag", rather than a serious desire to go anywhere.
Also, we don't NEED to get people off-planet yet. Now, a lunar penal colony might not be a bad idea... can we say "Hypermax?"
In the long run, we need a base elsewhere in system to guarantee we won't be taken out by asteroids. A not-quite-big enough comet hitting earth, say over a major city, would probbly do the trick to motivate the governments.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I don't, I was just posting on another non-FTL solar system setting
A couple of things spring to mind.
Firstly the political and economic will are not there yet (and haven't been since the early seventies despite technological advances) - the Chinese getting in on the space race may well change all that, especially when they land a man on the moon and claim the territory for the Peoples' Republic of China
Secondly, manned missions to planets other than Mars and Venus will still take months to years using the rockets you've suggested and the jury is still out on how well people will adapt to long duration spaceflight - effects of radiation, microgravity, psychological pressure etc.
And the replacement for the shuttle is... where???
No.
I think current electronic/computer technology is reaching its physical limit, but more and more ways are being found to integrate it with everyday life to such an extent you don't even notice it.
Fossil fueled tranportation needs an alternative to be found as the odds are stacked against it.
No.
I think there will be great breakthroughs in material science like you suggest, there will be biotech breakthroughs with a profound effect in medicine, food production. Working fusion power, but probably not until 2030-ish like you suggest.
Good for you, I say. We need people to be optimistic about the future and humanity's potential. I for one would love to see your predictions come true by 2030 (and I hope they have anagathics by then as I'll be in my sixties).
I hope so
Don't the Japanese still have plans for space hotels in the near future ,20-ish years hence?
Perhaps private space vessels will bring them one step closer.
Make it 2050-ish and you've sold it to me
With very large space ships that are rotated to simulate gravity and adequately shielded this presents no problem. The ships are produced with in space resources (asteroids, the Moon etc.) Only the equipment to process these resources needs to be lifted from Earth. If launch costs drop, then you can lift this equipment and turn asteroids and moon rocks into interplanetary spaceships. A 1,000 meter diameter spaceship can rotate twice a minute to produce adequate gravity and it would provide plenty of radiation shielding even during Solar flares. Ion rockets or mass drivers would slowly accelerate these ships toward their destination and the colonists would grow their own food and regenerate their atmosphere on the way.
Any expendible rocket can replace the Shuttle so long as its payload capacity equals it, the Delta IV does for example. What really is going to get us up their however is a space elevator or a scamjet. Nuclear rockets could be used, but environmentalists would object.
And our brains are beyond this limit? No, when processor chips reach their limits, computer companies will produce multiprocessor chips that run parallel, eventually these chips will execute more compute cycles than the human brain.
M
Malenfant
Guest
Again, Tom, you're making statements that have little basis in fact
. Here's a newsflash for you - (manned) space travel IS hard. It is phenomenally difficult, in fact.SpaceshipOne is an achievement, sure, but it's got to the EDGE of space, and can't really get much further anyway. It'll be interesting for suborbital technology, but we are sure as hell not going to the Moon or Mars in the next 50 years just because it's launched (Bush's insane, not-remotely-thought-out blathering about putting humans there notwithstanding).
NASA cannot get anyone into space now that the shuttles are grounded (even then, they couldn't get beyond earth orbit). NASA - or indeed anyone else - certainly does not have the technological capability at the moment to get to the Moon, and absolutely nobody can get to Mars. Do you know that NASA has actually forgotten how to get to the moon? There's nobody around anymore who knows how to build a Saturn V, and I'm sure I've heard that the blueprints have been lost.
Putting men on the Moon in the 1960s was a fantastic technological achievement, especially for the time. If we started again from scratch, pumped billions into the project, and did not back down every time sustaining funding was mentioned, then we might be able to get there again given 10-20 years of solid effort. But we can't just go there to stick footprints in the regolith again - the Apollo program shut down in part because of lack of political will and also lack of interest from the public (hardly anyone cared about the moon program after Apollo 11 landed).
Mars is another matter entirely, I'd be surprised if humans went there before 2075 myself. There are vastly more complex problems to be solved there - not least of which is sustaining people for journeys that would last several months instead of a few days, building the lifesupport and infrastructure, along with the psychological isolation of being millions of miles from home for a long period of time. It is not remotely trivial to get to Mars. There is absolutely no point in going to all that bother and expense if people aren't willing to follow up on it.
Plus, frankly, there is no reason put humans on other planets at the moment. There is little reason to send humans to do a job that a robotic explorer can do well enough, for a vastly reduced cost, and with vastly less risk (and in many cases, humans would require vast amounts of heavy shielding to protect from radiation). The recent slew of Mars rovers and Cassini are amply illustrating this.
Drakon
SOC-14 1K
Urban myth. The design blueprints are still on file. We have not "forgotten" how to get to the moon. It is more a case of political will to do so.
There is no there there. There is no air, no water, and no food. Which means that all these things have to be sent up there. And for what? You explain to voters why their tax dollars are being 'wasted' on a bunch of guys hanging around on the moon, doing what? Research? Exploration? You will always have the "the money is better spent here" crowd, and as long as we are talking someone else's money, that will be a problem.
Which is why SpaceShip One is a big deal, even if it never achieves orbit, or goes anywhere. It worked, and not even perfectly. (Engine shutoff 15 seconds too soon for one thing. How high would she have gone, and how long would Mike have had in zero gravity if it had stayed on those additional 15 seconds, I am not sure.)
You are right. After Apollo 11, we got this "been there, done that" attitude in the populace that is just maddening for guys like me. The last 3 flights were cancelled, and we got SkyLab, which despite its problems was a good piece of gear. But we did not try to keep it running, because as mentioned before, "been there, done that"
As for Mars, I think the technology is already in existence for most of this stuff. I know Johnson has been doing experiments in developing closed loop life support systems, and have I think a record of 20 days in their isolation module. Possibly longer, I am not sure. Its been some time since I read about the project.
Psychology is going to be tough. But then there are some humans crazy enough to do it anyway.
Sadly you have a point about human exploration versus robots. I say sadly, because robots are still limited, and they ain't us. I see it as an imperitive that we get off this rock and out amongst the other planets and stars as soon as possible. The world is simply too fragile, and right now humanity has all of her eggs in this one tiny basket. If it gets wrecked, that is it for all humanity. Everyone who ever lived, and died, who ever did anything, will be swepted away, as if it never existed.
2050 maybe a good time to start the campaign, it would give the space colonies a little extra time to develop their histories, I still think space colonization should begin around 2020. That will give then 30 years. The Third Reich was an Empire that was built in 15 years and in plenty of time to start World War II. I think to make a Solar System RPG interesting, we need a menace, some aggressive Empire that menaces the peaceful colonists and Earth. The Empire is built in space by a renegade band of criminals that escaped justice by building their own space colonies. I think this works better than making China or Russia into the bad guys. This Empire has gotten quite powerful due to the neglect of the established Earth-based powers and their hands-off approach to anything to do with space. There is very little regulation and little law out there at first. The Empire therefore created its own laws and ruled with an iron fist. The economy of the Empire flourished while the surrounding space settlements languished due to lack of law and an anything goes atmosphere. The Empire developed a space fleet in direct violation of the space treaty and conquered a number of space settlments before the space treaty was finally scrapped and other nations began building fleets, but the Empire has a head start. I think a good place to put the Empire would be Ceres, originally they start out as a band of pirates, but left unchecked they conquer other settlements in the Belt and now they are beginning to menace the planet Mars.
Evo Plurion
SOC-12
Tom - I agree that for an RPG, some history should be laid down first. I always prefer games and fiction with history behind them - more gravitas.
I actually envision sometime around 2200 AD. Lots of room for great interplanetary powers to develop, fall and redevelop. One of my favourite scenarios involves a great war which ravages Earth, allowing Mars to assert its independence and become a superpower. Then a "Reconstruction" movement grows among the colonies sympathetic to Earth and the plight of Terran refugees, many of whom have been subjugated by Mars. The Jovian system could be a fascinating third political pillar of the Solar System - playing Mars and a resurgent Earth against each other.
BTW - I hope none of this resembles the Jovian Chronicles RPG. I've read some it and it seems a little light for my tastes. Mushy SF as opposed to hard SF.
Not that there's anything wrong with that!
I actually envision sometime around 2200 AD. Lots of room for great interplanetary powers to develop, fall and redevelop. One of my favourite scenarios involves a great war which ravages Earth, allowing Mars to assert its independence and become a superpower. Then a "Reconstruction" movement grows among the colonies sympathetic to Earth and the plight of Terran refugees, many of whom have been subjugated by Mars. The Jovian system could be a fascinating third political pillar of the Solar System - playing Mars and a resurgent Earth against each other.
BTW - I hope none of this resembles the Jovian Chronicles RPG. I've read some it and it seems a little light for my tastes. Mushy SF as opposed to hard SF.
Not that there's anything wrong with that!
