Smoke and Mirrors?
- Thread starter Vargas
- Start date
Mår Ekkertsen
SOC-12
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>When it finally comes out, will anyone still care?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
ME!. I will care, I do care, I have cared.
I still look forward to a new playtest of those materials. I was WAY too busy when the first T4.x playtest stuff came out.
ME!. I will care, I do care, I have cared.
I still look forward to a new playtest of those materials. I was WAY too busy when the first T4.x playtest stuff came out.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MJD:
*I* care. Another reason why it'll happen....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ok, so a few people on this board cares. I really doubt that constitutes a large enough population to support yet another new version. How many copies of 4th edition were sold? Apparently not enough to keep Imperium Games in business. I would expect 5th edition to sell even less no matter how good it is. This will be due to direct competition with GT and T20 both of which have exposure to a much greater audience.
*I* care. Another reason why it'll happen....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ok, so a few people on this board cares. I really doubt that constitutes a large enough population to support yet another new version. How many copies of 4th edition were sold? Apparently not enough to keep Imperium Games in business. I would expect 5th edition to sell even less no matter how good it is. This will be due to direct competition with GT and T20 both of which have exposure to a much greater audience.
Well, for those of us with philosophical objections to GURPS and D20 it will have a market. Unfortunately, with the RPG market implosion and us old Traveller's having careers and families I don't know how big that is.
Thats the best argument for minimalist design and against lavish artwork. Its going to be hard enough to turn a profit on this.
[This message has been edited by Uncle Bob (edited 06 April 2002).]
Thats the best argument for minimalist design and against lavish artwork. Its going to be hard enough to turn a profit on this.
[This message has been edited by Uncle Bob (edited 06 April 2002).]
hunter
Ancient - Absent Friend
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mshensley:
Ok, so a few people on this board cares. I really doubt that constitutes a large enough population to support yet another new version. How many copies of 4th edition were sold? Apparently not enough to keep Imperium Games in business. I would expect 5th edition to sell even less no matter how good it is. This will be due to direct competition with GT and T20 both of which have exposure to a much greater audience.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
1) You are assuming T4 did badly and Imperium went out of business because no one wanted the game. Not true. Imperium went under because the owner lost a ton of money in the Asian (?) stock market. Also, remember Imperium Games was owned by the same company that released the D&D movie *shudder*. Just be glad they went under before they got a chance to exploit their option to do a Traveller movie...
2) Why are you assuming that Marc would release T5 in competition with GT, T20, and his own reprints?
Hunter
Ok, so a few people on this board cares. I really doubt that constitutes a large enough population to support yet another new version. How many copies of 4th edition were sold? Apparently not enough to keep Imperium Games in business. I would expect 5th edition to sell even less no matter how good it is. This will be due to direct competition with GT and T20 both of which have exposure to a much greater audience.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
1) You are assuming T4 did badly and Imperium went out of business because no one wanted the game. Not true. Imperium went under because the owner lost a ton of money in the Asian (?) stock market. Also, remember Imperium Games was owned by the same company that released the D&D movie *shudder*. Just be glad they went under before they got a chance to exploit their option to do a Traveller movie...
2) Why are you assuming that Marc would release T5 in competition with GT, T20, and his own reprints?
Hunter
There are only two versions of Traveller currently in print (CT and GT) and one in the wings (T20). If, like me, you have no interest in either GURPS or d20, and find CT a little clunky around the edges (I know, heresey!), you just might be looking for T5 to actually come out. I'd like to get a look at it; it's art, it's rules and, hopefully, additional source material for actually playing games and not just to create new background. I am somewhat concerned however that the public seeing FFE issue two versions of Traveller will have the appearance of trying to fleece said public and generate negative feelings.
Simon Jester
SOC-12
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vargas:
{snip}
I am somewhat concerned however that the public seeing FFE issue two versions of Traveller will have the appearance of trying to fleece said public and generate negative feelings. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Given that the public in question is composed almost entirely of that odd subset of humanity known as Gamers, I see little problem with there being two, three or even five different 'Traveller' games out, so long as those games are decent quality. I have known gamers who have subsisted on macaroni and cheese for entire months because they spent most of their paychecks on gaming books, AND THEY WERE HAPPY ABOUT IT! They got books that let their minds roam wild, allowing them to create entire universes that they got to share with their closest friends.
Is this an extreme case? Yes. But, provided all necessary expenses are taken care of, what is the point of making money if you don't have fun with at least some of it?
Simon Jester
---------------
"87. If any thought makes me giggle for more than fifteen seconds, I am to assume that I am not allowed to do it.
~~~~~~
91. I am not authorized to initiate Jihad. "
--entries in Skippy's List - The 213 Things Skippy Is No Longer Allowed To Do In The U. S. Army http://www.skippyslist.com/
[This message has been edited by Simon Jester (edited 06 April 2002).]
{snip}
I am somewhat concerned however that the public seeing FFE issue two versions of Traveller will have the appearance of trying to fleece said public and generate negative feelings. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Given that the public in question is composed almost entirely of that odd subset of humanity known as Gamers, I see little problem with there being two, three or even five different 'Traveller' games out, so long as those games are decent quality. I have known gamers who have subsisted on macaroni and cheese for entire months because they spent most of their paychecks on gaming books, AND THEY WERE HAPPY ABOUT IT! They got books that let their minds roam wild, allowing them to create entire universes that they got to share with their closest friends.
Is this an extreme case? Yes. But, provided all necessary expenses are taken care of, what is the point of making money if you don't have fun with at least some of it?
Simon Jester
---------------
"87. If any thought makes me giggle for more than fifteen seconds, I am to assume that I am not allowed to do it.
~~~~~~
91. I am not authorized to initiate Jihad. "
--entries in Skippy's List - The 213 Things Skippy Is No Longer Allowed To Do In The U. S. Army http://www.skippyslist.com/
[This message has been edited by Simon Jester (edited 06 April 2002).]
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hunter:
Why are you assuming that Marc would release T5 in competition with GT, T20, and his own reprints?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
How can it not be in competition with the other versions? With GT, T20, and T5 being sold at the same time, the market for Traveller will be very fragmented. Only the grognards will be buying T5. New gamers or those new to Traveller will buy GT or T20 because those games are built on proven rules systems.
I'm not saying that I wouldn't buy a copy of T5 (although I didn't buy T4) if it was really good. But then again, I am have played Traveller on and off again since the beginning. But more than likely I will stick to GT or T20 because I can get much more use out of their systems in other genres.
The only way that T5 wouldn't be competing against GT and T20 is if it isnt published until after those games are no longer available. Hmmm, maybe that's why its taking so long...
[This message has been edited by mshensley (edited 06 April 2002).]
Why are you assuming that Marc would release T5 in competition with GT, T20, and his own reprints?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
How can it not be in competition with the other versions? With GT, T20, and T5 being sold at the same time, the market for Traveller will be very fragmented. Only the grognards will be buying T5. New gamers or those new to Traveller will buy GT or T20 because those games are built on proven rules systems.
I'm not saying that I wouldn't buy a copy of T5 (although I didn't buy T4) if it was really good. But then again, I am have played Traveller on and off again since the beginning. But more than likely I will stick to GT or T20 because I can get much more use out of their systems in other genres.
The only way that T5 wouldn't be competing against GT and T20 is if it isnt published until after those games are no longer available. Hmmm, maybe that's why its taking so long...
[This message has been edited by mshensley (edited 06 April 2002).]
daryen
SOC-14 1K
--------------------------------------------
hunter wrote:
2) Why are you assuming that Marc would release T5 in competition with GT, T20, and his own reprints?
--------------------------------------------
So, what you are saying is that T5 will be printed, but not for a long, long time. Correct?
If T5 is not to compete with the reprints, then it will have to wait for the reprints to end. If they are allowed to all be printed (and there are about 10 to go), then T5 will not be out for a long, long time. Or the reprints will be terminated.
Personally, I *really* want all of the reprints, regardless of the impact to T5. (Not that my opinion matters much, but there it is.)
If T5 is not to compete with T20 and GT, then T5 won't be released until after T20 and GT go out of print. Even if GT is terminated immediately, I seriously doubt he would consider pulling the plug on T20 this early.
So, if Marc does not want T5 to compete with T20, GT and CT, and he does not want them to end prematurely, then we aren't going to see T5 for a long, long time.
Which is just fine with me.
hunter wrote:
2) Why are you assuming that Marc would release T5 in competition with GT, T20, and his own reprints?
--------------------------------------------
So, what you are saying is that T5 will be printed, but not for a long, long time. Correct?
If T5 is not to compete with the reprints, then it will have to wait for the reprints to end. If they are allowed to all be printed (and there are about 10 to go), then T5 will not be out for a long, long time. Or the reprints will be terminated.
Personally, I *really* want all of the reprints, regardless of the impact to T5. (Not that my opinion matters much, but there it is.)
If T5 is not to compete with T20 and GT, then T5 won't be released until after T20 and GT go out of print. Even if GT is terminated immediately, I seriously doubt he would consider pulling the plug on T20 this early.
So, if Marc does not want T5 to compete with T20, GT and CT, and he does not want them to end prematurely, then we aren't going to see T5 for a long, long time.
Which is just fine with me.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mshensley:
How can it not be in competition with the other versions? With GT, T20, and T5 being sold at the same time, the market for Traveller will be very fragmented. Only the grognards will be buying T5. New gamers or those new to Traveller will buy GT or T20 because those games are built on proven rules systems.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Could be that you just don't understand the gaming market. The very reason that so much material is available today is that Traveller is selling. The popularity is sort of feeding on itself and the more new material available the more interest there is.
You also seem to assume that T5 will not be anything new nor something good in its own right. Ultimately, each version will need to stand on its own merits.
Finally, with Marc so busy on other projects (CT, Twilight: 2000, and 2300AD reprints, keeping tabs on licensed products), he has very little time to devote to creating a new product. On the other hand, money he is making from all of these products will give him the resources and motivation to get T5 out... when the timing is right. And I trust him to know when that is.
How can it not be in competition with the other versions? With GT, T20, and T5 being sold at the same time, the market for Traveller will be very fragmented. Only the grognards will be buying T5. New gamers or those new to Traveller will buy GT or T20 because those games are built on proven rules systems.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Could be that you just don't understand the gaming market. The very reason that so much material is available today is that Traveller is selling. The popularity is sort of feeding on itself and the more new material available the more interest there is.
You also seem to assume that T5 will not be anything new nor something good in its own right. Ultimately, each version will need to stand on its own merits.
Finally, with Marc so busy on other projects (CT, Twilight: 2000, and 2300AD reprints, keeping tabs on licensed products), he has very little time to devote to creating a new product. On the other hand, money he is making from all of these products will give him the resources and motivation to get T5 out... when the timing is right. And I trust him to know when that is.
I don't like GURPS or d20 and would gladly welcome a new edition of 'real' Traveller, but I'm in no hurry. From the T4.1 draft material I've seen I think it's just as well that never saw print, but I still think there could be room for an 'ultimate edition' of Traveller 2 or 3 years down the line (wasn't "T5 in '05" the slogan we were supposed to learn?). Until then, I'll keep tinkering with and playing my homebrewed MT-hybrid.
T.Foster>I don't like GURPS or d20 and would gladly welcome a new edition of 'real' Traveller
I am a relative newcomer to Traveller- been a player for a while, a couple of years ago, but I have finally decided that I really want to start a Traveller campaign myself.
The system I was planning to use was Gurps but I am growing less and less enthousiastic about it- so the campaign will probably have to be in another version.
I was thinking about T20, but the myriad of game systems has gotten me dazed and confused. So I am kinda interested in what is, in your opinion, better in T5 (and the other 'real' Travellers
) than Gurps, and especially T20?
I am a relative newcomer to Traveller- been a player for a while, a couple of years ago, but I have finally decided that I really want to start a Traveller campaign myself.
The system I was planning to use was Gurps but I am growing less and less enthousiastic about it- so the campaign will probably have to be in another version.
I was thinking about T20, but the myriad of game systems has gotten me dazed and confused. So I am kinda interested in what is, in your opinion, better in T5 (and the other 'real' Travellers
) than Gurps, and especially T20?
