Skimming

[Ptah]

I agree about the vulnerability, especially if the operation takes a protracted length of time. It argues for fleet support craft in the tanker role, maximized for fuel capacity; and maybe even specialized skimmer craft having extra armor to better survive the "dive."

I imagine that refueling operations might go something like this. Tankers refuel key starships post jump ASAP. This would include scouts, or other "dispatch" craft, and at least a core of warships (whether you choose to refuel a dozen destroyers or one batteleship is a matter of doctrine).

Meanwhile, "mine sweepers" do pre-dive sweeps/runs to makes sure the gas giant isn't mined or has some nasty debris in orbit.

The skimmer ships then begin refueling, as well as smaller ships in the fleet, in rotation. The large high value targets, along with sufficient support craft, remain in the High Guard and fuel is brought to them. In this sense, 80% of the fleet is in the High Guard while smaller craft and the tanker/skimmer vessles refine fuel. In case of emergency, the crews of the tanker/skimmers pop out and are picked up by other craft before jump (maybe by support "mine sweepers"). If a high value ship can't get away (not enough fuel to jump) there is always the option of a suicide stand or scuttle her by diving her into the gas giant. The crew of these ships may also pop out first and let the computer perform these last desparate acts.

Then, in YTU, there may be the dangerous option of hiding in the gas giant, forcing the enemy to bombard it or come in looking for you.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Plankowner:
There seems to be very little reference in any of the LBBs about how hazardous or non-hazardous skimming really would be. We all THINK it should be difficult, but the basic Traveller books seem to imply that skimming is pretty routine.

I've been deciding how I'm going to play this in my game, and I've come up with a compromise that defers to both sides of the argument (CT implied "realatively easy" vs opinon that GG skimming is dangerous and tough to do).

Skimming a GG is tough--and somewhat dangerous. A competent Navigator can plot courses through specific layers of a GG's upper atmosphere, and a competent pilot can fly that course.

So, in my game at least, the actual work of skimming will be relatively easy (though I will use it as an excuse, from time to time, to damage the PC's ship from radiation, heat, turbulence, whatever...break off an antenna or sensor, giving the PCs one more thing to buy).

GG skimming will be a nusiance, and a rough ride (this is probably not something you'd want to do with passengers aboard--especially High Passengers). Also, when skimming, if can be dangerous because of the impact it will have on sensors (PC ship effectively blind to long distance at points during the skim).

GG skimming will take about 8 hours, and for fuel purification, I'll use the High Guard 1st edition rule (1 ton of gas per minute, 1 ton of water per 10 minutes).

The problem for skimming, will be the distance to the GG.

I typically use Heaven & Earth to roll up a quick star system (or several) before a game--it takes about 5-15 seconds to use that program to roll up an entire system. Then, I simply look at the map of the system H&E generates to see where the GG's are.

Wa-laa, in about a minute of real time, I've got a map of the system I can print out, giving me distance from the main world to the GG's.

Typically, these GGs are a long way away from the main world--many times taking a week or longer in N-space.

THAT'S going to be the biggest hindrance to skimming. It's not the time it takes to purify the fuel, or the relative danger and damage to the ship that the ship incurs when skimming. It's that it's not that economically feasible to spend another week (on average) getting out to the GG.

And, if the ship just jumps into the system to re-fuel at the GG, that's fine--the PC's probably won't go to the main world.

This will give me, as GM, opportunities for pirates and corsairs and such, hanging around the GG's, waiting for prey.

 

[Ptah]

I agree about the vulnerability, especially if the operation takes a protracted length of time. It argues for fleet support craft in the tanker role, maximized for fuel capacity; and maybe even specialized skimmer craft having extra armor to better survive the "dive."

I imagine that refueling operations might go something like this. Tankers refuel key starships post jump ASAP. This would include scouts, or other "dispatch" craft, and at least a core of warships (whether you choose to refuel a dozen destroyers or one batteleship is a matter of doctrine).

Meanwhile, "mine sweepers" do pre-dive sweeps/runs to makes sure the gas giant isn't mined or has some nasty debris in orbit.

The skimmer ships then begin refueling, as well as smaller ships in the fleet, in rotation. The large high value targets, along with sufficient support craft, remain in the High Guard and fuel is brought to them. In this sense, 80% of the fleet is in the High Guard while smaller craft and the tanker/skimmer vessles refine fuel. In case of emergency, the crews of the tanker/skimmers pop out and are picked up by other craft before jump (maybe by support "mine sweepers"). If a high value ship can't get away (not enough fuel to jump) there is always the option of a suicide stand or scuttle her by diving her into the gas giant. The crew of these ships may also pop out first and let the computer perform these last desparate acts.

Then, in YTU, there may be the dangerous option of hiding in the gas giant, forcing the enemy to bombard it or come in looking for you.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Plankowner:
There seems to be very little reference in any of the LBBs about how hazardous or non-hazardous skimming really would be. We all THINK it should be difficult, but the basic Traveller books seem to imply that skimming is pretty routine.

I've been deciding how I'm going to play this in my game, and I've come up with a compromise that defers to both sides of the argument (CT implied "realatively easy" vs opinon that GG skimming is dangerous and tough to do).

Skimming a GG is tough--and somewhat dangerous. A competent Navigator can plot courses through specific layers of a GG's upper atmosphere, and a competent pilot can fly that course.

So, in my game at least, the actual work of skimming will be relatively easy (though I will use it as an excuse, from time to time, to damage the PC's ship from radiation, heat, turbulence, whatever...break off an antenna or sensor, giving the PCs one more thing to buy).

GG skimming will be a nusiance, and a rough ride (this is probably not something you'd want to do with passengers aboard--especially High Passengers). Also, when skimming, if can be dangerous because of the impact it will have on sensors (PC ship effectively blind to long distance at points during the skim).

GG skimming will take about 8 hours, and for fuel purification, I'll use the High Guard 1st edition rule (1 ton of gas per minute, 1 ton of water per 10 minutes).

The problem for skimming, will be the distance to the GG.

I typically use Heaven & Earth to roll up a quick star system (or several) before a game--it takes about 5-15 seconds to use that program to roll up an entire system. Then, I simply look at the map of the system H&E generates to see where the GG's are.

Wa-laa, in about a minute of real time, I've got a map of the system I can print out, giving me distance from the main world to the GG's.

Typically, these GGs are a long way away from the main world--many times taking a week or longer in N-space.

THAT'S going to be the biggest hindrance to skimming. It's not the time it takes to purify the fuel, or the relative danger and damage to the ship that the ship incurs when skimming. It's that it's not that economically feasible to spend another week (on average) getting out to the GG.

And, if the ship just jumps into the system to re-fuel at the GG, that's fine--the PC's probably won't go to the main world.

This will give me, as GM, opportunities for pirates and corsairs and such, hanging around the GG's, waiting for prey.

 

[Plankowner]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Emm, LBB6 gives Ganymede (5262km diameter), Callisto (4800km diameter), and Titan (5150km diameter) as size 3

Damn you and your details!!!

OK, we have Size 3 moons. But again, LBB6 allows up to size 8. It is still very hard to duplicate the solar system using LBB6. BUT, I am also willing to concede that we only have ONE solar system to compare.

 

[Plankowner]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Emm, LBB6 gives Ganymede (5262km diameter), Callisto (4800km diameter), and Titan (5150km diameter) as size 3

Damn you and your details!!!

OK, we have Size 3 moons. But again, LBB6 allows up to size 8. It is still very hard to duplicate the solar system using LBB6. BUT, I am also willing to concede that we only have ONE solar system to compare.

 

[aramis]

Given that HG2 plants operate on 20 ton chunks of fuel, and Bk2 fuel damage is 20 tons per hit, the tanks are probably in 20 ton chunks. Until TL14, those HG FPP's are bigger than 4T per 20 Td, and probably work on 2Td at a time; thus each "hit" of pressure tank is thus 10 bladders.

If you have a tank with a constant cross section, all you need are fill/drain at either end, and a moveable partition.

Alternatively, the FPP MIGHT be a catalytic conversion system moving from one end of the tank to the other, catalyzing a cracking of various hydrocarbons, and being used to suck out C, O, N, and such; in this case, you move it to keep the unreacted fuel to one side of the catalytic filter but with equal pressure on either side. as it catalyzes and expels H2 out the back, it moves back toward the "Fill Wall."

Hmm... I think I just figured out how I'm going to handle FPP's in MNTU.

 

[aramis]

Given that HG2 plants operate on 20 ton chunks of fuel, and Bk2 fuel damage is 20 tons per hit, the tanks are probably in 20 ton chunks. Until TL14, those HG FPP's are bigger than 4T per 20 Td, and probably work on 2Td at a time; thus each "hit" of pressure tank is thus 10 bladders.

If you have a tank with a constant cross section, all you need are fill/drain at either end, and a moveable partition.

Alternatively, the FPP MIGHT be a catalytic conversion system moving from one end of the tank to the other, catalyzing a cracking of various hydrocarbons, and being used to suck out C, O, N, and such; in this case, you move it to keep the unreacted fuel to one side of the catalytic filter but with equal pressure on either side. as it catalyzes and expels H2 out the back, it moves back toward the "Fill Wall."

Hmm... I think I just figured out how I'm going to handle FPP's in MNTU.