skills 'n' that in mgt: connects, packages, etc

[philabbot]

imtu (mongoose trav) i often feel that pc's end-up rather lo-skilled. i think back to classic trav & the difference that 'mercenary' & 'high guard' made to the original rules, where you could suddenly roll for skills every year, not a lousy once per term...

i think the mongoose events tables are great & really help with creating backstory for pc's - also the connect rules really make the group dynamic a lot more interesting.

but... one event every 4 years?!? like, what were you doing the other 3 - sleeping? i've heard it said that 2 bad mishaps can cripple a character - true. and too many good ones can create an overbalanced superhero - also true.

but i still can't shake the feeling that mt characters muster out rather underskilled - hence the whole skill package thing, which feels like a major afterthought: (gm's voice, "oops, your characters are crap, i'd better give you some generic random skills to choose from").

any thoughts? any systems you use to improve this?

 

[McPerth]

As a system to improve it, if you think more events may be in order, just allow for them. You're the GM, if you say (just to put an example): you will roll one event per term plus one per year on a 5-6 on one die roll (rolled each year), so you'll average 2-3 events/term, so will be.

About skill packages, don't forget they give skills at level 1, so if you have the wanted skill at level 1+, you cannot take them. They will make you sure to have a level 1 Pilot, but you may well not have a level 2 one, as your character with already Pilot 1 cannot choose it to improve it, only to have another Pilot class skill at 1 (e.g., if he was Pilot (starships) 1, he may choose Pilot (small craft) 1, but not Pilot (starships) 2).

 

[CosmicGamer]

the whole skill package thing, which feels like a major afterthought: (gm's voice, "oops, your characters are crap, i'd better give you some generic random skills to choose from").

The skill package is specific skills that the GM feels are necessary for the game and players pick them. Default Chargen is generic random skills.

In many of games (both CT and MgT) I've been part of, several necessary crew positions were still unmanned because random chargen didn't give the group key skills needed. The connection and package skills give the group a chance to fill in the holes. Nothing to do with character being crap, it's just that randomness had perhaps given you 2 pilots and 2 engineers But nobody to astrogate or operate sensors and comms.

 

[Omnivore]

As a player and a GM over the years, my groups and I have almost always found it necessary to fiddle with the chargen regardless of what system we used. In my view the original LBB was fine until Mercenary and later High Guard and Merchant Princes came along bringing with them severe skill level inflation.

I'm not familiar with Mongoose Traveller, but from what I've read here and elsewhere they seem to be a mix of various past incarnations but fundamentally LBB reborn. I'd expect to see, or find that people have added, some upper limits on skill levels as well as a cap on the total skill levels like the intelligence + education cap we used to use.

I agree with McPerth and CosmicGamer, in any incarnation of Traveller, part of the job of a GM is to modify things as necessary to 'make it work' for his or her group. Indeed, if Mongoose Traveller is anything like the original LBB's of classic, half the fun in being the GM is breathing life into the universe and tweaking whatever is necessary to 'make it work'.

"In days of old when GM's were bold and the OTU not invented..."

PS: "So, you're firing your gauss pistol at the gaurd, what is your pistol skill?.... 15!!!!!"
Brian

 

[philabbot]

skills

thanks for replies fellas; i like the idea of randomising extra events.

still not sure i'm happy with packages, tho.

 

[CosmicGamer]

Simple tweaks that could make a difference:
Allow the skill package to up skills to L2 instead of just L1.
Allow one connection per event/term or allow one connection skill with every other character instead of 2 max.

 

[BytePro]

Overall I like MgT's chargen - it added several interesting elements. With background skills, service skills, event, advancement, rank, package, and connection skills - I think MgT gives a lot of skills (too many sometimes).

Really originally liked the specialties concept, but in practice, not so much. It is rather unbalanced and inconsistent. Gunner doesn't specialize between sandcaster and pulse laser, for example. More importantly, despite all the skills, a career space veteran can easily lack even basic knowledge required for ship board life.

 

[philabbot]

Really originally liked the specialties concept, but in practice, not so much. It is rather unbalanced and inconsistent. Gunner doesn't specialize between sandcaster and pulse laser, for example. More importantly, despite all the skills, a career space veteran can easily lack even basic knowledge required for ship board life.

yeh, that's another one needs tweaking...

 

[far-trader]

...despite all the skills, a career space veteran can easily lack even basic knowledge required for ship board life.

Cant' recall off hand how MgT handles Jack-of-all-Trades (is it like CT? zero level?) but an easy fix for this might be grant J-o-T (perhaps limited to the profession) for true veterans of any career, say 5 terms. Just an off the cuff thought.

Or adopt CT's view of zero-level skills as being referee assigned as needed and it's pretty much fixed as well.

 

[philabbot]

some good ideas here, you all; thanks.

 

[McPerth]

Cant' recall off hand how MgT handles Jack-of-all-Trades (is it like CT? zero level?) but an easy fix for this might be grant J-o-T (perhaps limited to the profession) for true veterans of any career, say 5 terms.

MGT handles Jack-of-all-Trades by reducing the -3 modifier for being untrained by your JOT skill (and specifies JOT 0 or 4+ are useless). Given that JOT 3 equals nearly having all skills at level 0 (for rolled task purposes, not for automatic tasks if you have th skill), I find too powerful a gift (or too useless, if it happens to have already JOT 3+).

 

[aramis]

Cant' recall off hand how MgT handles Jack-of-all-Trades (is it like CT? zero level?)

No. It reduces the penalty for unskilled tasks (itself a –3) by the level of JoT, to a maximum level of JoT 3.

 

[BytePro]

JoT really is more like a combo stat than a skill - and thus unbalanced with other skills. MgT's approach is ok, though I don't allow above JoT-2.

CT left a lot up to the Ref when it came to dealing with skills and little support for setting targets and DMs. MgT's skill/task handling seems an improvement, but I still do a lot of ad-hoc tweaking.

Related discussion: http://forum.mongoosepublishing.com/viewtopic.php?f=89&t=49379&hilit=Spacer

 

[Cryton]

MgT seems skill light sometimes, until you factor in the hoard of 0 level skills you get from background (3 + Int Mod) ,those 0 levels you get for your first term, the skills you get from cross connecting events with other PCs, and the package deals at the end of character generation. The 0 levels make you appreciate what a 1 skill represents, and how not having any skill (not even lvl 0) is a huge negative.

Thats the way I see it anyways...

 

[philabbot]

@cryton, yeh that is a good point, about the skill-0s - and i do prefer the jack-o-t system in mgt to the ?? system in ct; it gives you some idea/guidance on what the skill means & how it works, without making j-o-t-ers too powerful

 

[Omnivore]

One of the CT house rules I've used for handling jack of all trades skill, was to say that anyone could negate the no-skill penalty by rolling 7+ on 1 die, DM +J-O-T skill. With all skills capped at 5 this meant even a JoaT-5 had a 1 in 6 chance of blowing the roll.

Brian

 

[Hyphen]

No. It reduces the penalty for unskilled tasks (itself a –3) by the level of JoT, to a maximum level of JoT 3.

Is that all skills, or just the ones that do not require specialised training, like the old MT rule ("Unskilled OK")? House-ruling this makes it more manageable and less magical.

I rather liked the additional rule that JoT allowed you to retry failed task attempts a number of times, up to the level of the JoT skill.

Does MGT allow any retries?

 

[McPerth]

Is that all skills, or just the ones that do not require specialised training, like the old MT rule ("Unskilled OK")? House-ruling this makes it more manageable and less magical.

As rules stand, all skills. As I understand it, the Unskilled Ok is not done in MGT, trying to offset that with a miriad of 0 level skills.

I rather liked the additional rule that JoT allowed you to retry failed task attempts a number of times, up to the level of the JoT skill.

As I've already said in other threads, I also like this approach. It makes it less powerful in one sense, as you still must endure the untrained modifiers, and more powerful in another, as you can use it in skills you are trained in (a character with Engineering 3 and JOT 2 was quite a good asset in a spaceship).

I had house ruled some limits to it in MT, through. Most retried tasks become hazardous (unorthodox approaches to problems), and not all tasks could not use it (as a rule of thumb, most instant tasks, but mostly to referee's judgement).

Does MGT allow any retries?

AFAIK, no.

 

[aramis]

Is that all skills, or just the ones that do not require specialised training, like the old MT rule ("Unskilled OK")? House-ruling this makes it more manageable and less magical.

I rather liked the additional rule that JoT allowed you to retry failed task attempts a number of times, up to the level of the JoT skill.

Does MGT allow any retries?

No, so do I, and not formally, but neither does it forbid/limit retries.

 

[Icosahedron]

I think something has been lost as Traveller has developed through its various incarnations.

Originally, the 'skills' were actually 'expertises'. Before the skills bloat of LBB4&5, each character had a few areas of expertise, perhaps four or five. These defined who you are.

I'm a pilot and a marksman. I can fly a starship and fire a gun. That's what I do. I have the qualifications to prove it.
Can I drive a car? Yes, of course I can. Can I run a search on a computer? Yes, of course I can.
Can I drive a car at 100mph down a switchback mountain track with a bunch of bad guys chasing me on dirt bikes and shooting at me with submachineguns? No, probably not, I'd need to roll for that. Can I reprogram my pocket computer to tie in with the security software of a secret WMD factory to gain illicit access? No, probably not, I'd need to roll for that...
But a guy who chose to be expert in Car or Computer would have a much better chance. However, you can only be expert in a few areas. That's why adventurers band together in groups.

How many things could you earn a living at IRL?

Most of the problems of over-expectation of character skills stems from the James Bond and 'special forces vet' movies. Nowadays all heroes have to be one man armies and have skills coming out of their arses. Makes about as much sense as the 'Flying Daggers' school of martial arts, IMO.

Once upon a time, players role-played solutions to problems they weren't qualified to handle. These days they pick a skill from their encyclopaedic list and roll-play it.

Remember Goldfinger? Bond didn't know how to switch the bomb off and an army guy with 'expertise' had to flick the right switch. These days Bond could not only switch it off, he could reassemble it into a working reactor!

IMO, MgT has more than enough 'expertises'.