Skills & Levels in MgT2e

[RossWinn]

So I’m increasingly concerned that any skill levels above 5 really mess with the probability of tasks and kind of break the system. In my games there’s a hard limit on any skill of five, and only a score of 4 can be attained in character generation.
Most players have no issues with this, but some do.
What are your thoughts?

 

[McPerth]

See that skill 5 will make a Formidable task need a 9+ (adding stat bonus, probably more a 7-8+), so far from a given fact, while skill 5 would represent quite a rare (and probably known) individual.

I personally don't like the skill level caps, as they represent quite specialized people, and will probably be handicapped in other fields for lack of skills, so representing those very rare individuals capable to do what others see as impossible (think on Messi in soccer, Copperfield on illusionism, etc).

If any of those so rare and known individuals make good adventuring material is another question...

 

[Dragoner]

MgT1 though I had a player work so hard to get Pilot 5, and I let them, then they got a 2 landing a Launch, so I said everyone was fine, though the Launch was wrecked. They were really bummed, and I think maybe I should have been more lenient. Usually it is such an edge case I don't mind.

 

[Condottiere]

Use supporting skills to improve, and/or mitigate, results from the primary skill.

 

[Badenov]

Part of this depends on how often and in what circumstances you require a roll and how consistently and conscientiously you apply mods to the roll. If I roll to drive home from work every day, I'm going to wreck my car nearly every month even if I have skill 5. So, if driving in normal traffic and not in combat is worth a +4, then my skill requirement to not wreck once a month goes down. Systems that have some rolls 'always fail' (Looking at you, d20) must therefore assume that rolls are only required when there is at least some risk of failure. Caps to skills generally seem to be an artificial way to force players to risk failure and pushing skills to insane levels seems to be a reaction to the limited vocabulary we have for explaining failed rolls. I used to play on a text-based RP game where you would roll out your action and then type up a paragraph or two describing your success or failure and it gave me a much broader perspective on the small things that can turn out to have significant impacts.

I think if the GM allows reasonable mods for easier rolls, the desire to pump stats to insane levels is reduced.

I think the skill mods for standard rolls sometimes do fail to account for the failure rate they would cause, or else the failures are described poorly. Do 1 in 36 fuel skimming evolutions result in a loss of a ship with all hands? That'd be a catastrophic impact on work in space. No one would survive the year. But if 1 in 36 require crews to perform some extra task to continue the operation safely (and onward through a couple layers of emergency checks), then it's probably OK.

 

[Spinward Scout]

So I’m increasingly concerned that any skill levels above 5 really mess with the probability of tasks and kind of break the system. In my games there’s a hard limit on any skill of five, and only a score of 4 can be attained in character generation.
Most players have no issues with this, but some do.
What are your thoughts?

MgT2e+ has a limit of 4 in Character Generation.

 

[McPerth]

If I roll to drive home from work every day, I'm going to wreck my car nearly every month even if I have skill 5.

Well, that depends on what a failure means... such a failure may mean it takes you more time, you were fined due to a traffic infraction, you had some incident with another driver (probably one with less skill), etc...

Remember that a failure, even a mishap, needs not to be destructive, just some problem arises

(same for your example in skimming, etc)

 

[kilemall]

I don’t have a problem with 5-6, it’s so improbable that the character would by definition be legendary, and also limited/focused. Be different if it’s a point/selection sort of mechanic.

Throws should be saving/contested, not every action.

 

[Badenov]

Well, that depends on what a failure means... such a failure may mean it takes you more time, you were fined due to a traffic infraction, you had some incident with another driver (probably one with less skill), etc...

Remember that a failure, even a mishap, needs not to be destructive, just some problem arises

(same for your example in skimming, etc)

Yes, my point was the rules don't actually say that, and cruel GMs, cognizant of the cruelties of the chargen and revival after Low Passage, might presume the entire game is meant to be, as Hobbes suggests, nasty, brutish, and short. The discussion of the original point of the thread, skill caps, changes based on how your GM evaluates failures was the point of my earlier post.

 

[whartung]

Yes, my point was the rules don't actually say that, and cruel GMs, cognizant of the cruelties of the chargen and revival after Low Passage, might presume the entire game is meant to be, as Hobbes suggests, nasty, brutish, and short.

If a GM wants to kill you, no rule is going to stop them.

 

[McPerth]

If a GM wants to kill you, no rule is going to stop them.

If a GM wants to kill you, you better leave that game.

He either has something against you (as a player) and does not want you there or he's not a good GM (I've seen both cases along my RPGmer career).

If it is the former case, you're doomed in this game, if the latter, the game itself is doomed...

 

[Badenov]

So I’m increasingly concerned that any skill levels above 5 really mess with the probability of tasks and kind of break the system. In my games there’s a hard limit on any skill of five, and only a score of 4 can be attained in character generation.
Most players have no issues with this, but some do.
What are your thoughts?

Back on topic, I'm not sure how you do chargen with regard to rolled or chosen skills, so that skill cap may or may not be meaningful. I have a CT character generator that I use sometimes when bored to churn out masses of characters that will never see play, but may inspire me with ideas. The number of characters with skills above 4 in rolled chargen is very small. Mathematically it's on the order of one in eight thousand (with differences based on number of rolls attempted on a table, so that's a ballpark of 1/(6^5), meaning 5 rolls on the same table all getting the same result). I'm inclined to let anyone that lucky take their prize. If you pick skills, then yeah, that's a reasonable limitation beause it would almost never come up in a rolled chargen, and so doesn't change the game significantly.

 

[whulorigan]

Back on topic, I'm not sure how you do chargen with regard to rolled or chosen skills, so that skill cap may or may not be meaningful. I have a CT character generator that I use sometimes when bored to churn out masses of characters that will never see play, but may inspire me with ideas. The number of characters with skills above 4 in rolled chargen is very small. Mathematically it's on the order of one in eight thousand (with differences based on number of rolls attempted on a table, so that's a ballpark of 1/(6^5), meaning 5 rolls on the same table all getting the same result). I'm inclined to let anyone that lucky take their prize. If you pick skills, then yeah, that's a reasonable limitation beause it would almost never come up in a rolled chargen, and so doesn't change the game significantly.

Another option is that you could choose to have skills above 4 be directed toward some specialization (e.g. - it is a "5" with that particular model or that particular personal weapon). Rolling the skill again might allow you to take another specialization above 4 in another model or 2nd special personal weapon, etc.

 

[McPerth]

As a rule of thumb, skill levels in MgT ae the equivalent to one less than those in CT. so, the basic skill in MgT is 0, while in CT is 1, and a Doctor (and so we can assume any university career licenciate) is skill 2+ in MgT, while 3+ in CT.

See that the example characters in CT suplement 4: Citizens of the Imperium, that are fresh from chargen, include some very high skills. There are two Scientists with computer 8 (one with no other skills, the other one with Admin 1 as the only other one), and some Boureaucrats with skill levels 6-7 (again, with little or no other skills). Even one of them has Admin 6 and Liaison 6 (but, again, no other skills).

So, if what I said in the first paragraph is true, those characters would be the equivalent to characters with skill levels 5-7 in MgT, fresh from chargen...

As said, those are quite specialied characters, usually with little more skills (if any at all)

 

[Rupert]

As a rule of thumb, skill levels in MgT ae the equivalent to one less than those in CT. so, the basic skill in MgT is 0, while in CT is 1, and a Doctor (and so we can assume any university career licenciate) is skill 2+ in MgT, while 3+ in CT.

See that the example characters in CT suplement 4: Citizens of the Imperium, that are fresh from chargen, include some very high skills. There are two Scientists with computer 8 (one with no other skills, the other one with Admin 1 as the only other one), and some Boureaucrats with skill levels 6-7 (again, with little or no other skills). Even one of them has Admin 6 and Liaison 6 (but, again, no other skills).

So, if what I said in the first paragraph is true, those characters would be the equivalent to characters with skill levels 5-7 in MgT, fresh from chargen...

As said, those are quite specialied characters, usually with little more skills (if any at all)

MgT also tends to spread out skills a bit more, and makes it harder to raise them by having quite a few skill awards be a flat skill-1.