Skill Advancement Rules

[Elliot]

I have noticed that Megatravellers are not all that happy with the skill advancement rules, yet reading the Joe Fugate's notes in Challenge he was of the belief that it allowed you to start a player at 18 and develop a character based on how the game develops.

What are the problems?
Are we being too strict?
What house rules fix the problem?

 

[Elliot]

I have noticed that Megatravellers are not all that happy with the skill advancement rules, yet reading the Joe Fugate's notes in Challenge he was of the belief that it allowed you to start a player at 18 and develop a character based on how the game develops.

What are the problems?
Are we being too strict?
What house rules fix the problem?

 

[Elliot]

I have noticed that Megatravellers are not all that happy with the skill advancement rules, yet reading the Joe Fugate's notes in Challenge he was of the belief that it allowed you to start a player at 18 and develop a character based on how the game develops.

What are the problems?
Are we being too strict?
What house rules fix the problem?

 

[aramis]

Problems of the MT experience system:
1) you can, in theory, with a kind GM, get a whopping 8-12 skill levels PER YEAR
2) it is based upon an attribute task roll
3) Pre-18 skills are limited to 2-4 level 0 skills, unless you use the optional DGP article on Children in Traveller.
4) the 90-day limit on AT's meant that you recorded them by date... thus two more data fields for character sheets, one being a single digit # of AT's, the other an 8place formated number field (day-year)

Benefits of the MT system:
1) Typically, it will grant 2-5 levels per term to 777777 characters.
2) it allows continuous development of all skills used by the character.
3) it can allow for decent skill gains quickly by high skilled characters
4) no skill goes up by more than 2 levels per year, and that requires a 15 (F) attribute.
5) It uses the task system

I have not found it a problem, per se. It doesn't exactly match the CG rates. But it is close enough.

 

[aramis]

Problems of the MT experience system:
1) you can, in theory, with a kind GM, get a whopping 8-12 skill levels PER YEAR
2) it is based upon an attribute task roll
3) Pre-18 skills are limited to 2-4 level 0 skills, unless you use the optional DGP article on Children in Traveller.
4) the 90-day limit on AT's meant that you recorded them by date... thus two more data fields for character sheets, one being a single digit # of AT's, the other an 8place formated number field (day-year)

Benefits of the MT system:
1) Typically, it will grant 2-5 levels per term to 777777 characters.
2) it allows continuous development of all skills used by the character.
3) it can allow for decent skill gains quickly by high skilled characters
4) no skill goes up by more than 2 levels per year, and that requires a 15 (F) attribute.
5) It uses the task system

I have not found it a problem, per se. It doesn't exactly match the CG rates. But it is close enough.

 

[aramis]

Problems of the MT experience system:
1) you can, in theory, with a kind GM, get a whopping 8-12 skill levels PER YEAR
2) it is based upon an attribute task roll
3) Pre-18 skills are limited to 2-4 level 0 skills, unless you use the optional DGP article on Children in Traveller.
4) the 90-day limit on AT's meant that you recorded them by date... thus two more data fields for character sheets, one being a single digit # of AT's, the other an 8place formated number field (day-year)

Benefits of the MT system:
1) Typically, it will grant 2-5 levels per term to 777777 characters.
2) it allows continuous development of all skills used by the character.
3) it can allow for decent skill gains quickly by high skilled characters
4) no skill goes up by more than 2 levels per year, and that requires a 15 (F) attribute.
5) It uses the task system

I have not found it a problem, per se. It doesn't exactly match the CG rates. But it is close enough.

 

[aramis]

Whups.. 90 days is a house rule...

 

[aramis]

Whups.. 90 days is a house rule...

 

[aramis]

Whups.. 90 days is a house rule...

 

[Flynn]

It's been a while since I looked at MT, so this might be wrong, but here's what I remeber about the experience system.

1) One AT is given out per game.
2) There's a max of two ATs per calendar year that a character can gain in any one skill, IIRC, and the task to improve is quite daunting without at least a lot of ATs.
3) Add to that the fact that you can only attempt to improve one skill at the beginning of each session, whether it succeeds or fails.

Kinda simple, yeah, but I must admit I found that skill progression limits itself fairly well in those regards. Most of it depends on how much time goes by in each session. Measuring advancement in terms of adventure sessions is probably a better analysis than by calendar year, because of the impact on game play. It's only when you compare the number of campaign sessions per in-game calendar year between campaigns do you begin to see major differences between characters from different gaming groups, in terms of skill advancement, but within an individual group itself, everyone should advance reasonably in tune with one another and within the context of their character's capacities.

If I've misremembered something, please let me know,
Flynn

 

[Flynn]

It's been a while since I looked at MT, so this might be wrong, but here's what I remeber about the experience system.

1) One AT is given out per game.
2) There's a max of two ATs per calendar year that a character can gain in any one skill, IIRC, and the task to improve is quite daunting without at least a lot of ATs.
3) Add to that the fact that you can only attempt to improve one skill at the beginning of each session, whether it succeeds or fails.

Kinda simple, yeah, but I must admit I found that skill progression limits itself fairly well in those regards. Most of it depends on how much time goes by in each session. Measuring advancement in terms of adventure sessions is probably a better analysis than by calendar year, because of the impact on game play. It's only when you compare the number of campaign sessions per in-game calendar year between campaigns do you begin to see major differences between characters from different gaming groups, in terms of skill advancement, but within an individual group itself, everyone should advance reasonably in tune with one another and within the context of their character's capacities.

If I've misremembered something, please let me know,
Flynn

 

[Flynn]

It's been a while since I looked at MT, so this might be wrong, but here's what I remeber about the experience system.

1) One AT is given out per game.
2) There's a max of two ATs per calendar year that a character can gain in any one skill, IIRC, and the task to improve is quite daunting without at least a lot of ATs.
3) Add to that the fact that you can only attempt to improve one skill at the beginning of each session, whether it succeeds or fails.

Kinda simple, yeah, but I must admit I found that skill progression limits itself fairly well in those regards. Most of it depends on how much time goes by in each session. Measuring advancement in terms of adventure sessions is probably a better analysis than by calendar year, because of the impact on game play. It's only when you compare the number of campaign sessions per in-game calendar year between campaigns do you begin to see major differences between characters from different gaming groups, in terms of skill advancement, but within an individual group itself, everyone should advance reasonably in tune with one another and within the context of their character's capacities.

If I've misremembered something, please let me know,
Flynn

 

[mike wightman]

Formal Training also plays an important part in skill development in MT.
Whether with an instructor or by correspondance course etc, if you find a formal training course (routine, applicable skill), stay determined (routine, determination, 20 hours) for the length of the course (200 hours, spread out lots of different ways), and complete the course (difficult, related skill, instruction) then you gain 1 level of skill (up to level 4). If you fail at this last hurdle you gain 2 ATs for the skill you've been training in so you could still increase due to experience, especially if you have been using the skill during adventures (don't forget to add any ATs gained while adventuring).
Gives characters something to do in jumpspace

 

[mike wightman]

Formal Training also plays an important part in skill development in MT.
Whether with an instructor or by correspondance course etc, if you find a formal training course (routine, applicable skill), stay determined (routine, determination, 20 hours) for the length of the course (200 hours, spread out lots of different ways), and complete the course (difficult, related skill, instruction) then you gain 1 level of skill (up to level 4). If you fail at this last hurdle you gain 2 ATs for the skill you've been training in so you could still increase due to experience, especially if you have been using the skill during adventures (don't forget to add any ATs gained while adventuring).
Gives characters something to do in jumpspace

 

[mike wightman]

Formal Training also plays an important part in skill development in MT.
Whether with an instructor or by correspondance course etc, if you find a formal training course (routine, applicable skill), stay determined (routine, determination, 20 hours) for the length of the course (200 hours, spread out lots of different ways), and complete the course (difficult, related skill, instruction) then you gain 1 level of skill (up to level 4). If you fail at this last hurdle you gain 2 ATs for the skill you've been training in so you could still increase due to experience, especially if you have been using the skill during adventures (don't forget to add any ATs gained while adventuring).
Gives characters something to do in jumpspace

 

[aramis]

Formal training exceeds the limits.

one AT per 90 days is a house rule that most of the MT GM's I knew personally used. I got it from one of them...

Also, we house ruled that one roll per month of character time was allowed... rather than once per session. Especially since we've had sessions of 6 hours cover in excess of a year, at times, and other times a day take 3 sessions of 8 hours each.

 

[aramis]

Formal training exceeds the limits.

one AT per 90 days is a house rule that most of the MT GM's I knew personally used. I got it from one of them...

Also, we house ruled that one roll per month of character time was allowed... rather than once per session. Especially since we've had sessions of 6 hours cover in excess of a year, at times, and other times a day take 3 sessions of 8 hours each.

 

[aramis]

Formal training exceeds the limits.

one AT per 90 days is a house rule that most of the MT GM's I knew personally used. I got it from one of them...

Also, we house ruled that one roll per month of character time was allowed... rather than once per session. Especially since we've had sessions of 6 hours cover in excess of a year, at times, and other times a day take 3 sessions of 8 hours each.

 

[kaladorn]

I find, just based on the fact my group plays traveller about 4 times a year in our real-world, that giving out ATs freely isn't a big issue. Yes, it might make for a fast progression in *game time*, but they spend a fair amount of time in jump space so strict rigour is not required.

A good point was made about formal training, but the Traveller training system ignores a lot of futuristic training options - cybertech and 'chipping', memory overlays, kinesic muscle-memory programming, etc. These could be subsumed in the formal training, but given the task levels and time, I do not think they are.

In theory, by TL-11 or so, I'll probably be able to be trained in everything from grav physics to null-gee kickboxing by the training systems in a fairly short period of time, at least to a slightly enhanced level or a basic level if I lack the skill.

Now why not ask where the 'skill atrophy' rules are? I know when I let a skill lie dormant for a year or two, if I'm called on to use it, it takes a day or two to get back up to speed....

 

[kaladorn]

I find, just based on the fact my group plays traveller about 4 times a year in our real-world, that giving out ATs freely isn't a big issue. Yes, it might make for a fast progression in *game time*, but they spend a fair amount of time in jump space so strict rigour is not required.

A good point was made about formal training, but the Traveller training system ignores a lot of futuristic training options - cybertech and 'chipping', memory overlays, kinesic muscle-memory programming, etc. These could be subsumed in the formal training, but given the task levels and time, I do not think they are.

In theory, by TL-11 or so, I'll probably be able to be trained in everything from grav physics to null-gee kickboxing by the training systems in a fairly short period of time, at least to a slightly enhanced level or a basic level if I lack the skill.

Now why not ask where the 'skill atrophy' rules are? I know when I let a skill lie dormant for a year or two, if I'm called on to use it, it takes a day or two to get back up to speed....