Sketchy Trade Encounters In The Dark

[jawillroy]

Suppose you've just jumped in-system with a ship full of spec cargo: maybe it's a high-law world that'll skin you alive with fines, and you don't want to deal with getting it through planetary customs. Maybe you need to move more units, faster, and you want to buy and sell a little before you hit port. Maybe your cargo isn't really yours, and you'd like to get clear of it before you have to explain it planetside.

Wouldn't it be nice to cut a few deals out away from the port?

Since I'm running LBB2 trade, administering the trade rules between two individuals seems a simple enough business: roll for the sale price as usual, with the mainworld's and the player's skill modifiers in play. Subtract the purchaser's skill modifiers for what you want to sell, add them for what you want to buy. Roll reaction again to see if the other fellow likes the deal. (Deals like this might well call for keeping weapon systems online, and having a few crushers at your back. You know, if the other guy *really* doesn't like the deal.)

But what I'm undecided on is how likely any of this is to be going down without being arranged beforehand by parties who know each other: If I'm flying thirty million credits worth of starship and someone radios me out of the blue and says something to the effect of

"CONFIDENTIAL! Dear Captain, Good day and compliments. This message will definitely come to you as a huge surprise, but I implore you to take the time to go through it carefully as I have offer for to sell fifty tons of occipital left-leaning heterodyne wrenches for the most attractive price... "

Well, wouldn't your inclination be to radio Starport Control for a Patrol Cruiser, STAT?

On the other hand, IMTU most merchies stay pretty local, and there might be pretty good odds that you'll recognize (and be recognized by) other ships that handle the same routes. Which might be the basis for cutting some deals.

Any of you-all do anything like this IYTU? If'n so, what?

 

[Gadrin]

Well, just because you land with such-and-such a cargo, doesn't mean you're necessarily going to sell it here. Some cargo is _completely illegal_ and if you're dumb enough to store it in plain sight...

So a customs inspector IMTU will make note of cargoes on the ship and what's being "offered" for sale. This means groundcrews won't unload your ship unless you've got permission. this works fine at many A & B ports.

If you have your own cargo-lifter it should be big enough to be seen in the hold, and the custom's guy makes a note of that. you might be able to hoodwink the locals and unload something you're not supposed to, but there's a butt-load of Imperial violations you'll be racking up, etc, etc. That discourages most people.

Let's say you've got some cargo either banned or heavily tarriffed by the locals. Let's say during your week lay-over you expend a certain amount of energy trying to find a buyer. You might be able to lift-off, rendezvous with him and off-load in space and he does the rest. Of course if he doesn't have a ship...

Anyway the short answer is, most captains/brokers won't just buy something because it's "on sale" and then hope they can sell it. Probably with a certain amount of research you can tell if something's going to have a chance at the next port you're headed to.

Next they don't broadcast, because there's always a good-two-shoes someplace that's just itching to rat people out.

IMTU most experienced captains would come at things a bit sideways, feel out a potential buyer and see how they plan on handling their part of it.

Remember: if something's too good to be true -- then either you're gaming with Monty Haul GM or it is too good to be true and probably a trap.

Such is the fun & games of being a smuggler/trader at large. Your best bet might be to stick with your skills, especially if you've got Bribery or Forgery
or something akin to Fast Talk. If you don't have these skills then you're subject to the GM's feeling about how you're approaching things.

How do you bribe a customs guy ? (or port ground crew loader/foreman)
How do you forge an authentic document ?
How do you talk your way out of a sticky situation ?


>

 

[jawillroy]

If you have your own cargo-lifter it should be big enough to be seen in the hold, and the custom's guy makes a note of that.

Don't know that this would necessarily be a problem, especially a merchie of PC league - "we do a lot of trade with Ebler and Foo-Oin, and their gear's offline half the time."

Your best bet might be to stick with your skills, especially if you've got Bribery or Forgery or something akin to Fast Talk.

Streetwise makes a good substitute there.

 

[Gadrin]

Don't know that this would necessarily be a problem, especially a merchie of PC league - "we do a lot of trade with Ebler and Foo-Oin, and their gear's offline half the time."




Streetwise makes a good substitute there.

Just what the customs guys tend to notice. The idea is that they'll put the word out to the ground crews to see if anyone's been unloading something they shouldn't.

But the truth is some ports will be highly automated, others won't and there might be ways of simply switching cargo containers. Such as inside the ship after she's closed up and then having the buyer arrive late and the ground crew unloads what it thinks is the right cargo. It can get complex and cinematic very quickly, things like weight, or surprise inspections, etc. How busy everyone is. Walk in the park one week, the next jump might be different.

Streetwise, ya, I just couldn't remember the name

 

[sid6.7]

well my first thought would be if someone broadcast that message is that they
probably are THE PATROL laying in wait for seedy characters or thier pirates
laying in wait.

i've always played traveller trade as "arraigned" stuff and not so much random
stuff...in my latest PBEM game we were in port and went to a kiosk looking for
for stuff as crew members while the GM(owner) brought in some speculative
off the cuff stuff but again...all arraigned...

you could play it random though if you want...kind like during the waterworld
scene where he was gonna trade the girls for a REAL paper? nobody knew
anyone there...

 

[Ran Targas]

No such thing as a free lunch! The real question is why the other guy is willing to unload such lucrative cargo so quickly and cheaply; seems pretty odd that someone would sink a sizable amount of cash into a cargo they aren't willing to take all the way to its destination.

IMTU, the seller would be a fence or someone trying to bale out of a contract with a little cash; either way, the cargo is not his to sell and you're buying something to hot for you to sell.

At best, you get away with only the cargo being impounded, a strong speaking to, and the priveledge of personal attention from the federales the next few times you're in town.

Worst case; the seller claims you pirated it from him and gets a fat insurance check on top of your cash, all the while you're ducking and running from the patrol.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

So show of hands....

I tend to go with all of the above. The 3I is a complex place with a lot of truly complex rules, this can lead to all sorts of hinkiness.

 

[jawillroy]

That all fits well. Yeah, generally speaking, if someone's willing to go too far wholesale on something, it stands to reason there's something sketchy going on no matter WHERE the buy happens.

 

[atpollard]

well my first thought would be if someone broadcast that message is that they probably are THE PATROL laying in wait for seedy characters or thier pirates laying in wait.

My first thought was "Good grief, not more spam".

 

[jawillroy]

My first thought was "Good grief, not more spam".

Well, I figured that broadcasting a request like that out of the blue would be pretty close to a Traveller equivalent of the Nigerian Scam, so the reference is intentional.

 

[Gadrin]

Gotta think there's a fair amount of "radio cold calling" where some sort of formal system-NET isn't up and running or someone's looking for a lower profile.

 

[Mithras]

See, I'm always wondering what on-Earth ship encounters are for, if you aren't getting boarded by pirates or patrols; but ship-to-sip trade actually puts meat on the bones of a ship encounter table, doesn't it?

I've played EVE Online a bit, and you get to see the same ships doing the same business, pulling out of the same ports. Eventually you get around to chatting a bit.

I imagine it would be the same procedure. You see The Orion Dawn again, you saw her last unloading machine parts at Regina. The crew seemed OK. You send over a laser com signal (you want to keep this private, right?).

Deals might not just be straight trade, either, but requests for minor aid or goods needed for a fair price. Maybe their heading out to Jump, but have a sick High Passage who needs shipping back to planet, or need a couple of O2 filters ... all for cash of course.

I think ship-to-ship trade has potential!

 

[rust]

In my setting the members of the Free Traders' League do quite a lot of
ship-to-ship trade among each other.

Imagine a free trader on his way from Samarran via Pharos IV to Ahn Doa.
He has 10 tons of cheap electronics for Ahn Doa in his cargo hold, which he
accepted because it was better than leaving Samarran with a partially empty
hold. However, he knows that he could make much more profit on Ahn Doa
with 10 tons of bioplast from Pharos IV.

On entering the Pharos system, he spots an outbound League member with
a vector pointing towards Ahn Doa. He will of course call that ship and ask
the captain whether he would be interested in the electronics, for a very
fair price, because this would allow him to replace those low-profit electro-
nics with high-profit bioplast from Pharos IV.

I think you get the picture ...

 

[jawillroy]

I've played EVE Online a bit, and you get to see the same ships doing the same business, pulling out of the same ports. Eventually you get around to chatting a bit.

I imagine it would be the same procedure. You see The Orion Dawn again, you saw her last unloading machine parts at Regina. The crew seemed OK. You send over a laser com signal (you want to keep this private, right?)

Now *that's* what I'm talking about! That's got a great feel to it.

 

[jawillroy]

...10 tons of cheap electronics for Ahn Doa in his cargo hold, which he
accepted because it was better than leaving Samarran with a partially empty
hold. However, he knows that he could make much more profit on Ahn Doa
with 10 tons of bioplast from Pharos IV.)

Works for me. *Especially* if the ships are regulars in the neighborhood and know each other. A strange ship in the system broadcasting anything is much more likely to be viewed with suspicion at best, or at worst, via somebody's targeting scan.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

*shakes head*

Works for me. *Especially* if the ships are regulars in the neighborhood and know each other. A strange ship in the system broadcasting anything is much more likely to be viewed with suspicion at best, or at worst, via somebody's targeting scan.

Wow, just that quick, huh? Though I have to admit, now that I think of it, I too might have to tell the IN about a Possible Hostile Ship if they just hailed me with hinky comms too.

On the other hand, I just might Q-Ship him too.

"Sure, Captain, where should we rendezvous?" *switches to 'standby', checks again and then turns to Weapons Officer* Do we have a Solution on Mr. Badguy yet? *grins* Love me some Duramagi, or at least salvaging their ship...

 

[Ran Targas]

I'm sorry but I wouldn't come within 1 million clicks of any merchie who rang me up out of the blue looking to rendezvous for a cheap cargo swap; this stinks of piracy or a sting operation. IMTU, certain races insist on meeting in orbit or even outside of the 100d limit but this is only after both sides are fully confident the other party is legitimate. Even then, the airlocks are often opened on armed guards ready for zero-g, vacuum combat if necessary.

The further from the regular patrol routes, the better chance this kind of operation would end in blood shed, cargo theft, and ship jacking. Ever see the Firefly episode titled "Out of Gas"? Out in the black, you should always expect the worst.

 

[rust]

It depends somewhat on your ideas on the technology of the setting.

In my setting all ships are required by law to have and use transponders,
and one can see from the transponder code whether it is a civilian, state
or military ship, and with civilian ships one can also see the type of the
ship, its name, its port of registry and whether it belongs to one of the
major organizations, for example a major line or the League.

While it is possible to manipulate a transponder, it is quite difficult, an of
course a serious crime. For outgoing ships it is especially difficult, because
they would have to change from their legitimate code to a fake one with-
in the system, and the system's satellite network would pick up the sud-
den identity change of the ship, and alarm system defense.

Ships with an unclear transponder code or no active transponder at all are
in trouble. The best they can do is wait for a system defense craft to come
by, identify them, and escort them to the port for a security check and a
transponder repair (if that was the problem). Otherwise, they will most pro-
bably be attacked by each and every armed craft in range.

 

[jawillroy]

...only after both sides are fully confident the other party is legitimate...

Makes good sense. It's hard for me to imagine things happening this way in too populous a TU- but IMTU there are a few factors that play towards it occurring:

1) There aren't so many ships as all that - a crowded port might have fifty or so commercial vessels any given week; many worlds only see a handful of ships regularly.

2) Ships tend to stay close to home: J2 and 3 ships tend to adhere to specific routes, and the more common J1 vessels are generally restricted to local clusters.

So established merchants are are known and recognized. Even a free trader captain will be known in the systems he travels.

My little TU is broken up into maybe fifteen, with one big one (subsector plus a little.) Active transponders are a pretty universal convention, but there's enough variation that if you get out into the frontier a transponder can't really be trusted. So again, you need to know the people you're dealing with, and they you. If you're skipping on your ship payments and putting space between you and home, you're not going to get to know anybody - and you're going to avoid the people you do know. If you're a respectable merchant, you may have the opportunity to do some business in the dark. And while a lot of the time, fire-sale prices indicate some manner of sketchiness going on, there's certainly plenty of occasions I can think of when selling wholesale or swapping cargo makes sense. "We got these handheaters on Hooplaw; the'll sell well two jumps away at Frigidia, but

a) we got hit with some stiff fines and we won't make payroll otherwise.
b) we got an opportunity to follow up a parsec in the other direction and need to empty the hold.
c) we need to be going back home to Haven or we cant count on making this month's payment in time.
d) the jump drive quit on us and we need liquidity now."

 

[jwdh71]

In my TU (non OTU), there are LOTS of empty systems, colonies only get placed in systems that are habitable or resource rich. This makes it a hell for Navy patrols and a heaven for sketchy trade. If you know someone in the underworld, you can purchase the location of a "Black Port" and a "Black Transponder" to get into it.

Black Ports are usually old, played out mining stations, failed colonies that were abandoned, or conglomerations of rusty hulks. They are kept as secret as possible among criminals (which means not very, and not for long), and moved as soon as they find a new place to setup. The Black Port you used last month is abandoned next, and possibly a sting operation of the Navy CID and Colonial Rangers the next month.

These are the places where the Grey and Black markets operate, out of the way of prying governmt eyes, and with little taxation (the owners of the Black port make their living by a 5% fee on transactions, port fees, and control of "entertainment" facilities). Open-space meetings between ships is unheard of unless the ships know each other VERY well.