Signal GK, refueling stations and the law

[Kilgs]

Signal GK’s, Refuel Stations etc.

My gaming group raised an interesting question. They misjumped, are low on fuel and come across an (apparently) abandoned fuel station owned by a known Imperial corporation. They are outside Imperial space. The original intention was for them to jury-rig their way into fueling their ships. Then they raised some questions…

1) With Signal GK regulations, wouldn’t a fuel station need/likely allow ships to refuel without payment if they were stranded?

2) Scouts are DDO and might have access to codes to use on such stations to refuel…

They are not in Imperial space, they are not in a scout ship. But it raised a good point. The Imperium is pure capitalism but the Signal GK requirements may require some failsafes built into unmanned fueling stations.

Any thoughts?

 

[aramis]

IMO, they still have to pay for the fuel.

Scouts probably wouldn't have codes, as it's corporate, and only if manned does it have to respond to the SGK.

 

[Whipsnade]

Kilgs,

First, if they're beyond Imperial space why should any alleged Signal GK "regulations" even enter the picture?

Second, all that Signal GK, SOS, and Mayday broadcasts require is that the recipient make a good faith attempt to assist the vessel in trouble if possible. It isn't an ironclad law demanding rescue attempts be made, it's left deliberately vague because the conditions associated with each situation cannot be known in advance. Whether or not assistance was possible or not will determined at a later date.

Case in point; while Titanic was sinking the lights of another vessel called Californian were visible from the liner. Californian's master, when informed of the distress rockets fired from Titanic, chose not to steam towards the liner. He'd already stopped for the night in the ice field and, lacking a search light, refused to risk his vessel to help the other. That decision was examined during the inquiry into the disaster and Californian's master was not censured in any way.

Third, rescuing someone is not the same as refueling their vessel for free. An out-of-fuel vessel with an empty checkbook isn't going to get a "pity fill-up". The crew will get taken off and, if they can't operated the vessel for whatever reason, she'll open to salvage claims.

Case in point: We had a fairly recent case in the Gulf of Maine concerning a pricey sailboat in distress. A father and son had left port to sail the boat to it's winter quarters, the weather turned bad, they didn't arrive on schedule, and a search was launched. A fishing vessel spotted the sailboat first, rendezvoused with it, and learned that the father had been swept overboard a few days earlier which left the teenaged son to try and handle to boat alone. The trawler took the boy off, passed him along to a USCG helo soon after, and took the sailboat under tow. They towed the sailboat into Portsmouth, NH and filed a salvage claim which the family eventually had to pay in order to get the sailboat back.

There's nothing such thing as a free lunch. Showing up somewhere in the 57th Century with empty tanks and an empty wallet isn't going to get you a handout. You better sell, something, earn some money, or allow a friendly lien to placed on your ship real quick if you don't want it seized for non-payment or "salvaged" right out from under you.

I think if you describe this unmanned Imperial refueling station which is outside of Imperial space a little more fully we could help you a little better. When I first began reading your post I assumed the players had fortuitously stumbled across some old IN/IISS "mosquito rig" parked on a KBO a couple of wars ago.


Regards,
Bill

 

[Kilgs]

Signal GK is an imperative to render assistance, so long as it's safe... a stranded ship in the middle of nowhere is in need of assistance. Like I said, they're not in Imperial space but it's an old Imperial corporate refueling station so it may have some commands left in it. But would it be different if they were? The ideas I'm looking for revolve around the general idea of a stranded ship and Signal GK in practicum.

Theoretically, the players are likely entitled to rip the fuel out of the station and are simply liable for the costs/damages if they are ever caught. (See Ploof v. Putnam--http://www.scribd.com/doc/26809/3-Ploof-v-Putnam-4-Vincent-v-Lake-Erie-Transp-Co-)

So, a corporation like Deep Space Logistics may have Signal GK protocols built into an unmanned station (in Imperial space) that would allow a ship to log their ID and get fuel on credit with a hefty trespass suit awaiting them on the nearest Imperial world.

Essentially, it's a cool idea.

 

[fiat_knox]

I'd automate the procedure.

The ship's master deducts payment from the ship's coffers to make up for the fuel taken. The law would state that the ship be required to note the refuelling and payment in its log, and the station itself installs an email in the ship's computer detailing the transaction and listing the current fuel levels of the station's tanks for automatic transmission to the nearest branch of the owning corp upon the ship's arrival back at port.

All this would be done automatically, a simple exchange of financial data from the ship's master server and the financial and inventory servers on the station.

 

[Kilgs]

That's kinda what I was thinking. You broadcast Signal GK, then are required to input an Imperial ID or transponder code. The deduction in fuel is noted and sent off to the law offices of the fuel company, who issues a bill to the individual/corporation.

 

[mbrinkhues]

And the big question is:

How will an automated, unmanned fuel station in the middle of nowhere SEND the information that "IMS ToStupidToLive" has just withdrawn x tons of LHyd.

Either the system is occupied, in that case the ship will likely not need the station since an SDB or similar can help. Or it is unoccupied. In that case the information will take at least 3.26 years to reach the next accountant

And what will it do to withdraw money/how will it react in case the crew is out of cash. Am I to expect a "pay first, fuel later" type of outlet like some "pre E-Cash" fuel stations used in the 1970s/80s that needs to be fed Imperial Credits?

 

[Whipsnade]

That's kinda what I was thinking. You broadcast Signal GK, then are required to input an Imperial ID or transponder code. The deduction in fuel is noted and sent off to the law offices of the fuel company, who issues a bill to the individual/corporation.

Kilgs,

Issues a bill? What? Are you forgetting about the speed of communications in the Traveller setting? Or the distances involved? In TTA the March Harrier is operating in the Aramis Subsector of the Spinward Marches but her legal homeport is Vland over two sectors away where the corporate subsidy holder is located.

This isn't a matter of the captain simply swiping his debit card at the station's payment kiosk and the fuel purchase showing up on his next monthly statement.

I very much like the idea behind this "Deep Space Logistics" firm you've suggested. How do you think they work and why would their station either be abandoned or unmanned?


Regards,
Bill

 

[RockViper]

It depends on the original purpose of the station and whether or not its really abandoned. Roll 1d6 on each table

Original Designation

• Emergency refueling point for private use
• Emergency refueling point for general use
• Commercial refueling depot
• Private refueling depot
• Military post
• Its a Trap!

Current Status

• Abandoned: Good repair (recently abandoned or auto repair working)
• Abandoned: Poor repair (damaged repair systems or abandoned decades or centuries ago)
• On Standby (temporarily shut down or in safe mode)
• Officially Decommissioned (may not have working machinery)
• Forgotten about (probable if it was an emergency military refueling drop)
• Fully functional and ready to accept debit cards/cash

 

[Whipsnade]

Rockviper,

Nifty! Consider those tables stolen!


Regards,
Bill

 

[RockViper]

Glad to be of help.

 

[Kilgs]

Issuing a bill is perhaps the wrong terminology. There is nothing stopping a ship from hopping to a station, refilling it, downloading the ID's of people and then returning to an Imperial planet. Once there, as I mentioned, the firm can file a lawsuit or collection against the individual/corporation etc. It doesn't have to go to the HQ or anything like that. You could file a debt anywhere realistically.

I very much like the idea behind this "Deep Space Logistics" firm you've suggested. How do you think they work and why would their station either be abandoned or unmanned?
Regards,
Bill

Not my idea. DSL is from Gateway to Destiny. It usually operates manned stations through subsidized contracts through planetary governments, Scouts, etc.

This station is unmanned because it's derelict.

The whole Signal GK thing was an idea my players had to get the fuel out of the station without hacking it. I thought it was a good idea and worthy of some thought. I decided it wasn't going to work this time because the whole point of the encounter was to get someone out, working in an old-patched vacc suit. The whole "hands-on" thing.

I just thought the idea was cool.

 

[Easterner9504]

Empty

"Empty fuel station. Free fuel. No strings. Sweet....say...Looks like some sort of secreted resin."


"Yeah, but secreted from *what*?"

Observes abandoned lunch.

"Something bad happened here."





Yup free fuel...no price...hmm

 

[Whipsnade]

There is nothing stopping a ship from hopping to a station, refilling it, downloading the ID's of people and then returning to an Imperial planet.

Kilgs,

There is nothing wrong with that at all. Of course, your station is outside Imperial space.

Once there, as I mentioned, the firm can file a lawsuit or collection against the individual/corporation etc. It doesn't have to go to the HQ or anything like that. You could file a debt anywhere realistically.

You can file a debt anywhere, getting paid is another thing entirely.

I can't see how you're going to get paid if the vessel in question has already been gone for months. Or how you can even "prove" that vessel used your station's services when you say they did. Transponders can be faked, pirates and others do it all the time.

Where are you going to send the bill too? As I pointed out with the March Harrier, a ship's port of registry can be sectors away.

Not my idea. DSL is from Gateway to Destiny. It usually operates manned stations through subsidized contracts through planetary governments, Scouts, etc.

That's an entirely different business model than the one you posted. You've a manned station who can charge customers at the time of purchase, and not an unmanned station whose billing records are collected every so often to begin chasing any future payments across the sector.

This station is unmanned because it's derelict.

Now that makes sense to me. A company lost it's subsidy for that route and shut down operations.

The whole Signal GK thing was an idea my players had to get the fuel out of the station without hacking it. I thought it was a good idea and worthy of some thought.

It's a great idea actually. The fuel station company was either following government regulations or the "Spacer's Code" when it shut down operations. If a vessel arrived and broadcast Signal GK, any remaining fuel stocks would be made available. People in Alaska and the Canadian Northwest do this all the time with caches of food and other survival stores in the wilderness. Such caches are stocked and used on the "honor system". No real payment is needed, you just need to eventually replace what you took.

I decided it wasn't going to work this time because the whole point of the encounter was to get someone out, working in an old-patched vacc suit. The whole "hands-on" thing.

It could still work. Perhaps the players need to input certain data into a terminal in order to unlock the fuel cache? That unmanned station isn't going connect all the hoses refueling requires either.

I just thought the idea was cool.

You thought correctly, the idea is very cool.

I just didn't fully understand it.


Regards,
Bill

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Physical connections...

Hi have been lurking a while now, digging it alot.

As for coerced EVA, require the starship to:

"Connect a T-16JRf (or similar model/adapter) hard line cable to station input located behind flip access C-1.

Enter Ship's Registry and handshake codes on data panel located behind flip panel DP-1.

Wait for station computer to connect to ship computer.

Once this occurs, this station will query engineering subsystem, fuel counter, and verify that this vessel is Signal GK, SOS, Mayday condition.

If verified emergency condition exists this station will dispense fuel sufficient jump to nearest inhabited system..."​

And so on, the PCs have to do all sorts of neato EVA stuff. (Yep I really do have Bureaucrat-6. )

 

[RockViper]

If the station is derelict then treat it as a free lunch, if the characters can get it functioning again. You can always have a bill show up months or years later for the cost of the fuel (including accrued interest) and a repair bill :rofl:

 

[savage]

derelict? Perhaps forgotten after corp layoffs

Take the fuel... move the station (If its in space move it). Or perhaps it was already moved which is why it was lost. In which case collect a heafty recovery fee.

:rofl:

 

[far-trader]

Is it just me or is anyone else wondering, why does an abandoned derelict station have any fuel at all?

If I was being uncharacteristically kind I might allow just enough fuel to have somehow been overlooked to get them out of a tight fix.

More likely the station isn't as abandoned as it appears. While they are fueling up a Corsair drops out of jump. Oh oh, this looks like their little base of ops. That explains much (the damage, the blood, the fact it's not on any legit corporate map since they moved it after taking it, and the fact that it's got fuel). Boy, they sound mad :devil:

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Evil, pure eeeville.

Wow, far-trader, that is like Supp4 Ref mean and sick and the worst of all for Players, totally legit (that's what makes it so evil.) Timmii Likey! :devil:

 

[Lycanorukke]

Finally decided to make a first post...at least while things are quiet. I considered replying way back at the thread start, but some of the older (ancient?) members beat me to it) so I shut up.

Is it just me or is anyone else wondering, why does an abandoned derelict station have any fuel at all?

No it's isn't just you .

I considered pirates/corsairs but it seemed a bit to cliché, and your typical pirates with half a brain would have ripped out any old programming from the computers (the last thing they want is for the original owners to possibly show up with a reactivation or override code or even to extract ship sensor data).

So idly bouncing ideas around - I thought corporate black ops.

A station in the middle of nowhere, apparently abandoned but still with full tanks? The site is used by the corporate 'special projects' division as a covert stopover point for something rather illegal in the Imperium (slavery, genetic experiments, drug/gun running, whatever - which is why it is outside the borders). The satellite was and marked as dismantled by creative paperwork and a few bribes. It has run smoothly for ages, brought significant profits and provided an excellent cover (we couldn't jump that far - out ships are only jump 1-2 and that’s a jump 5 route).

And now the PC's roll up and swipe some fuel.

When the next 'covert run' stops by to refuel and check the systems, there is going to be hell to pay. Special Projects are going to go ballistic, the manager who was bribed is now a high rank (maybe even a noble) who can't have this leak out, and the executive board is not going to be happy with any Imperial investigation of this lucrative illegal market and bad PR.

And if the satellite did have 'GK routines' in the computer which were forgotten - said parties are going to know exactly who grabbed the juice and are going to try very hard to make their lives miserable.

And if it happened to be an INI covert ops station....hooo boy.:devil:

Rambled a bit more that I expected. So I'll be quite now.