Sensors and Weapons in Vehicle Maker

[Timerover51]

I have been going through Vehicle Maker, and was wondering if I was missing how to add sensors to a vehicle. Things like radar for aircraft, radar and sonar for ships, radar for ground vehicles to use in conjunction with surface to air missile systems.

Similarly, how do you add weapons and where are they listed on the Vehicle Charts? The B-29 had 5 powered gun turrets, a rearward-facing gunnery radar for the rear gunner, plus a bomb-aiming radar carried under the fuselage. Where are the rules for mounting these items?

Where are the rules for weapons for aircraft in general? Things like machine guns and cannon in the wings and fuselage, gun mounts for multi-person aircraft, external bomb and missile loads, that sort of thing. Those are somewhat important to combat aircraft.

The B-25H Mitchell medium bomber of World War 2 carried a grand total of fourteen .50 caliber machine guns and a 75MM cannon. The AC-130 carries a 105MM cannon with a very comprehensive fire-control system.

Where are the rules for weapons on-board ships, and where is the listing for tank armament? From the limited information on the tank,

NoteT. Install TWO weapons: one Vehicle-Mount and one Turret-Mount.

could I put a 155MM gun and a Flame Thrower on a Carden-Lloyd Mark VI tankette?

 

[Licheking]

The Sensors are added using either the ThingMaker or ShipMaker. You can pick the various sensors from the equipment list and add them to a vehicle instead of making a sensor with ThingMaker every time you need a basic sensor or communicator for that matter.

Weapons can be made using with GunMaker or ShipMaker again. The Thing to remember about the weapons constructed through GunMaker is that they do 1/10th damage to spaceships, although this isn't clearly stated anywhere it is mentioned in a few places.

I have converted almost all the vehicles from previous sources and i have used both ShipMaker weapons and GunMaker to make tank guns for example and while the ShipMaker weapon only does 1d damage that would presumably be x10 against vehicles and personnel. While Using GunMaker to get weapons up to 10d takes a lot of work. The ShipMaker weapons when downgraded to World Scale tend to weigh in at around 500kg or 1/2 a ton easily fitting into a vehicle turret or the vehicle option of weapon mount.

 

[tjoneslo]

Weapons can be made using with GunMaker or ShipMaker again. The Thing to remember about the weapons constructed through GunMaker is that they do 1/10th damage to spaceships, although this isn't clearly stated anywhere it is mentioned in a few places.

I have converted almost all the vehicles from previous sources and i have used both ShipMaker weapons and GunMaker to make tank guns for example and while the ShipMaker weapon only does 1d damage that would presumably be x10 against vehicles and personnel. While Using GunMaker to get weapons up to 10d takes a lot of work. The ShipMaker weapons when downgraded to World Scale tend to weigh in at around 500kg or 1/2 a ton easily fitting into a vehicle turret or the vehicle option of weapon mount.

Do you have page references for 1/10 or x10 rules for GunMaker to ship weapons rules/mentions?

 

[Timerover51]

The Sensors are added using either the ThingMaker or ShipMaker. You can pick the various sensors from the equipment list and add them to a vehicle instead of making a sensor with ThingMaker every time you need a basic sensor or communicator for that matter.

Weapons can be made using with GunMaker or ShipMaker again. The Thing to remember about the weapons constructed through GunMaker is that they do 1/10th damage to spaceships, although this isn't clearly stated anywhere it is mentioned in a few places.

I have converted almost all the vehicles from previous sources and i have used both ShipMaker weapons and GunMaker to make tank guns for example and while the ShipMaker weapon only does 1d damage that would presumably be x10 against vehicles and personnel. While Using GunMaker to get weapons up to 10d takes a lot of work.

Before I write a detailed response, I just want to make sure that I understand you correctly.

You are saying that for something like a air-warning radar for a World War 2 Tech Level ship, I need to go to either Shipmaker, by which I assume you mean the Starship Design Sequence, or Thingmaker, then either design something from scratch or choose a pre-made design. As World War 2 could be viewed as either Tech Level 5 or Tech Level 6, and Radar appears to be defined as a Tech Level 9 standard, this might be a slight problem.

As for tank and surface ship weapons, I either make them somehow in Gunmaker, or figure out what is meant by "Slugthrower" in the Starship Design Sequence. That does not answer the question regarding aircraft, and how many weapons or weapon mounts that they may have. For that matter, does the One Hardpoint per 100 Traveller dTons apply to surface ships as well as Starships and Spaceships? Does that also mean that the 1 Ton required for a turret mount, regardless of whether it is a single or quadruple mount, also holds true regardless of the size of weapon in the turret?

Just a couple of samples for the curious.

Radar appears to have a standard Tech Level of 9 in both the Starship Design Sequence and also Thingmaker, see page 635 in T5.0.9.

The AN/APS-6 3 cm Radar was a widely used US Navy night-fighter radar in World War 2. It was operated by the pilot of the aircraft, primarily single seat F6F Hellcat and F7F Tigercat fighters. It weighed 242 pounds, without including the power cables. The maximum reliable range on bombers at 10,000 feet was 10,000 yd. or 9.144 kilometers, on fighters at 8,000 feet the range was 8,000 yd. or 7.3152 Kilometers, with a detection range of Battleships on the surface of 35 miles (that would be nautical miles or 64.82 Kilometers). As of 1 August 1945, the US Navy had received 2161 at a unit cost per set of $10,938. That was a pretty high cost in World War 2, as a Jeep cost about $1000, a DUKW nearly $6000, and a P-40 in 1944 was costing $44.892. Now, does this qualify as an Experimental Set, based on the Standard Tech Level for Radar of 9?

The ShipMaker weapons when downgraded to World Scale tend to weigh in at around 500kg or 1/2 a ton easily fitting into a vehicle turret or the vehicle option of weapon mount.

Now, as you gave a weight for Shipmaker weapons downgraded to World Scale, I thought that I would post some Real World weapon weights for tank-mounted guns.

The US 37MM Gun M6, was carried by US Light Tanks M3 series and M5 series, along with the M3 series of Medium Tanks. The weight of the gun and mount was 700 pounds, or 317.7 kilograms. The Armor-Piercing projectile weighed 1.92 pounds, or less than 1 kilogram.

The Japanese Type 1 (1941) 47MM tank gun weighed 904 pounds or 410 kilograms. The Armor-Piercing projectile for the gun weighed 3.37 pounds or 1.53 kilograms.

The US 75MM Gun M3, used on the later M3 series Medium Tanks and the M4 series until replaced by the 3 inch/76MM gun, weighed with mount 1,763 pounds or 800 kilograms. The Armor-Piercing projectile for the gun weighed 14.92 pounds or 6.77 kilograms.

The US 90MM Gun M3, carried by the M36 Tank Destroyer and the M26 Pershing tank, weighed 2,290 pounds or 1,038 kilograms, but that does not include the weight of the gun mount, just the gun itself. The two principal Armor-Piercing projectiles used weighed 23.4 and 24.06 pounds, or about 10.9 kilograms.

Based on your stated weight of about 500 kilograms, the gun apparently is around 50MM to 57MM caliber, with a projectile of between 4.5 to 6 pounds in weight. The German 50MM Pak 38 Anti-tank gun, firing a 4.54 Armor-Piercing Capped projectile, could penetrate 2.4 inch/60MM of good-quality rolled homogenous armor plate at a 90% angle of impact. That would give the round the ability to penetrate an Armor Value of 420, based on the Armor Value of one centimeter of steel being 70, as given on page 640.

If you wish the specific sources of any of my data, just ask. Most if it is available online, but some is not.

 

[Licheking]

The Makers in T5 are more abstract than technical. If you want to recreate precise weapons from a specific era, your better off using Megatraveller or better yet Fire, Fusion and Steel, or some other generic weapon designer (Guns, Guns, Guns). GunMaker will get you a weapon which fits the system works with all the rules and has the flavour of what you want if not the precise numbers.

Your M6 and Type 1 would both be covered by the downgraded weapon i described, you add the flavour text, and assume that the extra weight for each is for miscellaneous stuff. The beauty of the Makers is that they are not precise and you can make them do whatever you want with a little thought and some fluff text.

Just so you know i'm a bit of a gun enthusiast and could name the various muzzle velocities and energy of firearms from all over the world and the GunMaker does not satisfy my technical side in relation to firearms. But i don't play or more accurately GM Traveller for the simulation of firearms and their effects on the human body, for that i would use Phoenix Command, but i do use Traveller for the universe which doesn't need the exact numbers to tell a good story.

 

[Timerover51]

The Makers in T5 are more abstract than technical. If you want to recreate precise weapons from a specific era, your better off using Megatraveller or better yet Fire, Fusion and Steel, or some other generic weapon designer (Guns, Guns, Guns). GunMaker will get you a weapon which fits the system works with all the rules and has the flavour of what you want if not the precise numbers.

Your M6 and Type 1 would both be covered by the downgraded weapon i described, you add the flavour text, and assume that the extra weight for each is for miscellaneous stuff. The beauty of the Makers is that they are not precise and you can make them do whatever you want with a little thought and some fluff text.

I am not a fan of tossing Real World physics out of the window simply because a game is called "science fiction". If I toss Real World physics out of the window, then the game is "science fantasy".

Just so you know i'm a bit of a gun enthusiast and could name the various muzzle velocities and energy of firearms from all over the world and the GunMaker does not satisfy my technical side in relation to firearms. But i don't play or more accurately GM Traveller for the simulation of firearms and their effects on the human body, for that i would use Phoenix Command, but i do use Traveller for the universe which doesn't need the exact numbers to tell a good story.

My personal library on weapons starts with the Sumerians about 3000BC and runs to the present day, including nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons, along with firearms from early blackpowder hand cannon to current personal and heavy weapons. It also includes artillery up to 18 inch for modern, and 20 inch for the post-Civil War Rodman smoothbore. Terminal ballistics are particularly interesting, from bullets hitting people to the damage effects of a 12,000 pound bomb going off, how many bomb hits does it take to knock out a runway in World War 2, and how many properly spaced torpedoes would it take to sink an Iowa-Class battleship.

 

[Licheking]

Do you have page references for 1/10 or x10 rules for GunMaker to ship weapons rules/mentions?

Page 277 top left corner of 5.09 T5.

It doesn't say explicitly that starship weapons do x10 but the implication is there.

 

[Timerover51]

Per page 277 of T5.0.9

GunMaker Installations. Any weapon less than 500 kg created by GunMaker can be installed in a weapon Mount (less than 1 ton) on a Firm Point.

GunMaker weapons damage inflict one-tenth damage in the Starship Combat environment: divide damage by 10 and round down; less than 1D has no combat effect; 1D fits in a T1; 2D fits in a T2; 3D fits in a T3.

 

[tjoneslo]

So Sensors in T5: The baseline rule start (in 5.09) on p. 164. I'll use vision as the example, but will later add rules for the other senses as needed.

Roll nD < Constant + Benchmark + Modifiers where:

nD is determined by the range to the target. The benchmark ranges are at the bottom of the page.

Constant is determined by the sensor. 16 is human normal for vision, and it can range from 4 to 30 for all the senses.

Benchmark is target size - range. With the rule that if the range number exceeds the target size number, you can not see the target. So a human visual sensor looking for a human sized target (size 4) can not see it at range 4 (500m) or more.

Modifiers are any applicable modifiers from the master modifiers table(s) on p.700 - 705.

If building a sensor, there are two parts to it: A sensor that captures the sensory input. And some kind of processor that renders the sensory useable for the sophont. This may be very simple, or a highly complex processing/analysis. Refer to p. 525 for Robot Brains as an example of Computer processing equipment required.

Building a visual sensor requires specifying the Constant and band(s) of the vision.

The only addition would be the ability to build a sensor that could change the Benchmark rule. It should be possible, through the use of magnification or sensitivity, to see small things further than people do with the naked eye.