A naval or civilian low berth at TL 15 should be a pretty safe place. But illegal low berth transport is a slightly different topic and stat.
Rules for Low Berth Passenger Survival...
- Thread starter GoblynByte
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A naval or civilian low berth at TL 15 should be a pretty safe place. But illegal low berth transport is a slightly different topic and stat.
Sorry, I don't recognize the reference. It was just something off the top of my head. Did I quote or misquote something obnoxious?
I hadn't thought of that; good thoughts!
No, I was just thinking of that thread heading in the direction of the very unexplainable scientifically using anything less than TL30 capability. Which, of course, doesn't rule out that a crewman may make that comment to just see someone twitch a little before hopping into a low berth. Or after they've had several pints at a bar and in a race to spin wilder but still vaguely possible tales to other spacers...
So what's the difference between regular low-berth and emergency low-berth? Someone can be placed in the latter far faster? They're not meant to be in for as long? They're flimsy cheap-tech that one would only hop into in an emergency (a marginally better option than a sure death)? One can prep and place themselves into one?
ELB's are designed for quick on and 1-4 victims inside. I think the presumption is a longer thaw, but I can't cite textual evidence for that.
Standard LB are middling to turn on, 1 victim, and middling thaw time.
I agree with Aramis.
One other thing: In science fiction, we often see suspended animation, for long haul "sleeps". We also see quick-freeze setups, for short-term sleeps, typically medical. But, often one will be used for the other, invariably causing some kind of difficulty.
Since Traveller covers the gamut of Sci-Fi, it would seem logical to have both kinds, including some extra risks for using one device for the other purpose. But, as Aramis said, it would be mostly house-ruled, because T5 doesn't include them separately.
One other thing: In science fiction, we often see suspended animation, for long haul "sleeps". We also see quick-freeze setups, for short-term sleeps, typically medical. But, often one will be used for the other, invariably causing some kind of difficulty.
Since Traveller covers the gamut of Sci-Fi, it would seem logical to have both kinds, including some extra risks for using one device for the other purpose. But, as Aramis said, it would be mostly house-ruled, because T5 doesn't include them separately.
When you say separately, do you mean beyond what's written in the BBB p347 & 625? Which, granted, doesn't provide a lot of narrative about the system differences.
No, it means I missed the reference on page 625. Thanks for pointing that out!
There are several versions of LBs there, but (in line with this thread), there doesn't seem to be any survival rules here, either. It DOES speak about battery duration, so there's an implied problem when the battery runs out (under "Capsule" midway down the right column). But again, no specifics.
One thing comes to mind, though: Survival procedures were embedded in CT's LB equipment. They even had the captain's lottery deal. Perhaps the authors simply didn't want to have anything like that again (a little macabre, after all). But, any reference to the older versions' LB statements could be misinterpreted. So, they probably just left it silent on the subject.
A new player looking at T5 would never come up with a question about it. Only us oldsters would, and they know we're just going to house-rule it anyhow.
Now that I've cogitated it a bit, I think they were deliberately not saying anything.
There are several versions of LBs there, but (in line with this thread), there doesn't seem to be any survival rules here, either. It DOES speak about battery duration, so there's an implied problem when the battery runs out (under "Capsule" midway down the right column). But again, no specifics.
One thing comes to mind, though: Survival procedures were embedded in CT's LB equipment. They even had the captain's lottery deal. Perhaps the authors simply didn't want to have anything like that again (a little macabre, after all). But, any reference to the older versions' LB statements could be misinterpreted. So, they probably just left it silent on the subject.
A new player looking at T5 would never come up with a question about it. Only us oldsters would, and they know we're just going to house-rule it anyhow.
Now that I've cogitated it a bit, I think they were deliberately not saying anything.
Could those variations come about not just due to berth types but also TL? A TL10 low berth in a Free Trader therefore being quite a bit more unreliable than a TL15 IN emergency low-berth.
Plus, if you think of it, a TL9 J-1 small merchant may have quite a bit of trouble WRT ensuring the survival of its low-passengers, hence the Low Lottery and all the stories and hype begin. Once it's out there, it'd be quite difficult to get rid of as a prejudice, especially if another passenger every now and then doesn't make it. Reputation: a lifetime to build, one un-unfreezable passenger to destroy.
Plus, if you think of it, a TL9 J-1 small merchant may have quite a bit of trouble WRT ensuring the survival of its low-passengers, hence the Low Lottery and all the stories and hype begin. Once it's out there, it'd be quite difficult to get rid of as a prejudice, especially if another passenger every now and then doesn't make it. Reputation: a lifetime to build, one un-unfreezable passenger to destroy.
As pointed earlier CT left us with a Med DM fetish when it comes to low berts. As a ref, you may use whatever DM make good gaming sense in the context of the adventure. Beyond the one that are likely to be used in every situation: TL and Med., I also use Life support engineering level and the ratio of eng personel to berth as well as admin when operating between low grade of ports make spare parts an issue. If shopping for cheap parts on the black market, streetwise may come handy.
have fun
Selandia
have fun
Selandia
Ackehece
SOC-13
Low Berth at TL-15 with the medical modifier is almost as good (or better) than a ships doctor.
It operates medical on the person inside as a C+S = TL
Stat C4=12+ skill=Medic-4 is 16
The Pod would be 15 for medic skill rolls
if it runs cautious reduce die by one
my question would be... what part of that 15 would be S and what part C?
this only applies with bad injuries where having more die might be important.
I am sure that the dropped the death by low berth intentionally but the battery issue should either:
a) leave you frozen but dead (bad design)
2) wake you up with the last of its power (a more likely scenario) in which you will then slowly die as life support ends or you starve to death, or you figure a way to save yourself.
I also wonder if the rules on page 176-177 for hibernation might also apply as cold sleep low berth is not yet a stasis pod and the Low Berth information on Pg. 625 clearly references Hibernation. (am sure someone has already posted this.... )
It operates medical on the person inside as a C+S = TL
Stat C4=12+ skill=Medic-4 is 16
The Pod would be 15 for medic skill rolls
if it runs cautious reduce die by one
my question would be... what part of that 15 would be S and what part C?
this only applies with bad injuries where having more die might be important.
Low Birth with Medical and 4x size and Capsule would be huge expensive and truly useful.
I am sure that the dropped the death by low berth intentionally but the battery issue should either:
a) leave you frozen but dead (bad design)
2) wake you up with the last of its power (a more likely scenario) in which you will then slowly die as life support ends or you starve to death, or you figure a way to save yourself.
I also wonder if the rules on page 176-177 for hibernation might also apply as cold sleep low berth is not yet a stasis pod and the Low Berth information on Pg. 625 clearly references Hibernation. (am sure someone has already posted this.... )
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Sel, I was using a ratio of Med personnel per low berth as a factor to consider. I considered a rate of one qualified Medic per 10 berths, or 1:5 to reduce the difficulty by a level. Then one doctor (Med-5) per ten medics for supervision purposes. My players currently have an excellent ex-IN doctor (Medic-6) on their crew, but he has to service 20 low-berths. To get all the passengers prepared he is cautious, and so far we've set this as a 20 hour operation spread over two sessions unless they can get contract assistance at a starport. He's considering looking into purchasing a medbot to get some assistance with this.
Ack, regarding your battery issues, I reckon the former would be a pretty catastrophic failure but likely not unheard of, while the latter would be the default for the unit.
Ack, regarding your battery issues, I reckon the former would be a pretty catastrophic failure but likely not unheard of, while the latter would be the default for the unit.
Ackehece
SOC-13
or... go with Medical Low Berths... they can look after themselves then
I would agree that it is likely with my two options
I hate to say so, but after thinking it over, I have to admit that you're right. A setting can work with low berths being used only by desperate people.
The main reason why I didn't want to admit that even to myself is that I just plain don't like a universe where the only two categories of travellers are rich people and desperate people. I want the setting to have students and pilgrims and travelling salesmen and tourists and humanitarian aid workers and people like that.
So I guess I'm back to advocating double occupancy and lowering life support costs to what can actually be listed as known expenses. (OK, I never dropped that
)Hans
Only it you want it to work that way. Firefly with freezers. There's no reason why a passenger liner can't offer massed lowberth travel, especially if the risk of death is improbable. That just means that the normal travellers, on a budget, use that rather than middle passage. The dodgy operators with smelly berths operated by a man with bad teeth and whispy hair in a combover will still get customers, but they'll be the desperate ones who can't afford the normally priced low berths and have to go for Loretta's Lowcost Lowberths on the SS Smudge.
No, if I accept the way low berths work under CT rules then that's the way it works.
Fortunately later Traveller incarnations changed those rules.
Hans
Keep in mind, Hans: many of the popsicles will arrange their multi-parsec trip as a single long freeze, to mitigate the risks.
Also, given the costs to ship a person, even double occupancy mid is no good. Given the explicit T5 minimum wage of 0.25 hour labor per credit, the poor cannot afford to travel even by low. It's 9 weeks salary per jump, which means the average working stiff is unlikely to be able to save up enough to afford it.
People generally don't save much past annual except for retirement (and then only when encouraged heavily by governments), and trip expense savings tend to be around 10% of income. So, in a year, 52 weeks, Mr. Laborer might save about 5-5.5 weeks salary towards a trip.
So, to even leave the world for the next, he's looking at 2 years to save up, 1 if he has no social life and no minor emergencies.
Popsicle passage may be the only way the poor ever get off world.
Also, given the costs to ship a person, even double occupancy mid is no good. Given the explicit T5 minimum wage of 0.25 hour labor per credit, the poor cannot afford to travel even by low. It's 9 weeks salary per jump, which means the average working stiff is unlikely to be able to save up enough to afford it.
People generally don't save much past annual except for retirement (and then only when encouraged heavily by governments), and trip expense savings tend to be around 10% of income. So, in a year, 52 weeks, Mr. Laborer might save about 5-5.5 weeks salary towards a trip.
So, to even leave the world for the next, he's looking at 2 years to save up, 1 if he has no social life and no minor emergencies.
Popsicle passage may be the only way the poor ever get off world.
That's an interesting image: modular low berth units that could be moved in and out of a vessel to allow for a passenger to remain under for the duration of a journey.
A bit like exchanging BBQ/griller gas bottles, only with people in them...
