Rules for Low Berth Passenger Survival...

[GoblynByte]

I've tried my best to locate something in T5, but keep coming up empty. I hate to be the guy who asks for stuff that is plainly in the rules, but I really am having trouble finding it. I was wondering if anyone could help me.

CT had rules for the checking the survival of low berth passengers on every trip (as well as a bit of flavor about a pool being collected betting on how many would survive). Is this in the T5 rules?

 

[David Johansen]

It isn't under the discussion of the Medic skill on pg 167, medical modifiers on 183, the discussion of ship's payload on pg 326 & 347, passengers and freight on 490, nor the discussion of Low Berths as medical equipment on pg 625.

So unless I'm missing something it's not in there.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Just a guess...

I figure that it depends on the QREBS. Low Quality, Reliability, and/or Safety equals Survival Rolls for the passenger, or more properly Malfunction Rolls for the Berth. Otherwise I don't recall seeing any rules either.

 

[pendragonman]

On a related note, sort of. Saw an excellent version of a low birth in the movie Supernova last night.

Also, the plot makes for an EXCELLENT T5 adventure.

 

[savage]

On a related note, sort of. Saw an excellent version of a low birth in the movie Supernova last night.

Also, the plot makes for an EXCELLENT T5 adventure.

Which is the only value of that movie.

 

[pendragonman]

Which is the only value of that movie.

No, no. It was very useful for keeping me awake at 4 a.m.

And the ship interiors gave me ideas. As did the medical robots.

 

[savage]

No, no. It was very useful for keeping me awake at 4 a.m.

And the ship interiors gave me ideas. As did the medical robots.

It kept you awake? I suppose i could re-watch it for the tech.

 

[Reban]

In this thread: http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=30003


I offered the following task roll:

Looking at the Hibernation talent on p177 it should look a bit like this:

Average (2D) < C3 + Attendant's Medical skill + the QREBS modifiers above.

What do you guys think?

The idea in T5 is that once you (or really the Ref) learn about Task Rolls you should be able to make them up for any situation you encounter rather than having a book filled with pregenerated tasks for every conceivable situation.

If you come up with a different one you won't be wrong, it'll just reflect the exact situation you've encountered.

There are also a lot of details and rules on Low Berths on p.625 under Drugs and Medical in the ThingMaker Equipment chapter.

 

[savage]

The task system has been around a long tiime.

From a tech perspective, we start seeing experimentation at TL8. Low berths should have a high survival rate by TL13+. I can see problems with earlier TL ships and problems with older systems.

No one would do it if there was a 10% chance of dying.

 

[GoblynByte]

The task system has been around a long tiime.

From a tech perspective, we start seeing experimentation at TL8. Low berths should have a high survival rate by TL13+. I can see problems with earlier TL ships and problems with older systems.

No one would do it if there was a 10% chance of dying.

It was just a neat flavor thing from the earliest iteration of Traveller. The lack of it isn't a game breaker, by any stretch. Just odd that it was not included.

 

[fschiff]

Duramast of Terra novels has it at 15% chance of death. Original Traveller had it at 17%.

 

[Ulsyus]

The task system has been around a long tiime.

From a tech perspective, we start seeing experimentation at TL8. Low berths should have a high survival rate by TL13+. I can see problems with earlier TL ships and problems with older systems.

No one would do it if there was a 10% chance of dying.

Absolutely. Even if it was a more difficult task, say 3D, then operators would be cautious (saving a D) or even do so on a normal roll dropping the difficulty to a level lower.

No-one wants to have a coronial inquest into why a passenger died in their vessel's coldsleep. Nor would a naval vessel's CO want a board of inquiry into the accidental death of sailors or troops in cryo, so I think they're likely to be very careful.

 

[aramis]

People still do stuff with death rates approaching 25%... Like climbing Mt Kangchenjunga, or K2. the 10% of CT low berths is a disincentive, but given a large enough population and/or a callous enough government, it'll be used. Heck, people ship themselves in cargo containers (and die in the attempts) to illegally enter the US.

 

[mike wightman]

Isn't that last bit real world politics and only suitable for the pit?

Anyway, if we can discuss it then there are several places where illegals risk life and limb, crossing the Med., trying to make it to Australia etc.

Desperate people will try desperate things to get to a perceived better life (and that includes packing off their children in the knowledge that they have a good chance of drowning en-route).

The low berth desperation model is a holdover from it being directly ripped off from the Dumarest novels for the rule book, but makes no sense in the setting of the OTU. If T5 has ditched it then it can finally be retconned from the OTU.

 

[David Johansen]

I don't know about suitable only for the pit. Take this encounter:

The PCs encounter a subsidized merchant damaged and drifting. The crew has abandoned ship but the entire cargo hold is full of low berths crammed with refugees from a war torn world. The system is holding on line but there's no guarantee it will stay that way indefinitely and the survival rate will surely fall as time passes on.

Sometimes it's nice to be able to confront a real world issue and act on it in game terms. That's the appeal of saving princesses from ogres after all. And as the referee you can see to it that they're well rewarded for the deed by a charity or patron. And if they fail to do the right thing, another ship can come into port and make the news when they receiving a rich reward for their good deeds.

 

[aramis]

Isn't that last bit real world politics and only suitable for the pit?

The reasons why they do it, and the legal responses to them doing it are a pit topic. That they do it isn't.

And that they do it shows that the 10% risk of death isn't enough to stop people in sufficiently desperate (travel by conex) or sufficiently prestigious (climbing K2) situations.

 

[atpollard]

People still do stuff with death rates approaching 25%... Like climbing Mt Kangchenjunga, or K2. the 10% of CT low berths is a disincentive, but given a large enough population and/or a callous enough government, it'll be used. Heck, people ship themselves in cargo containers (and die in the attempts) to illegally enter the US.

The part that seems odd to me is that someone desperate can procure a dose of Medical Fast drug, hide in a shipping container and wake up 30 days later an a new world with less chance of death that a legally approved mode of travel to the same destination. It really is an oddity for the setting and rules ... particularly when other, safer methods of travel are forbidden under the rules (like a rack of bunks to average 6 passengers per 4 dtons rather than 1 passenger per 4 dtons).

 

[aramis]

The part that seems odd to me is that someone desperate can procure a dose of Medical Fast drug, hide in a shipping container and wake up 30 days later an a new world with less chance of death that a legally approved mode of travel to the same destination. It really is an oddity for the setting and rules ... particularly when other, safer methods of travel are forbidden under the rules (like a rack of bunks to average 6 passengers per 4 dtons rather than 1 passenger per 4 dtons).

Medical Fast? I've not seen that in Traveller Drugs Lists.

There's normal Fast drug - which lasts 60 reference days, and slows all actions down by the same factor. Containerize yourself on Fast Drug, you can't react to any outside stimuli in a reasonable manner. A half-second think time takes 30 seconds... and a 60:1 compression is a 6-octave shift in perceived pitches. Your average ship's announcement is "beyond your hearing range." Your vision, which is about 20-30 hz, becomes 1/2 hz refresh. You lose persistence of vision for people; they simply move too fast. a shift in gravity, even slight, or a moment of imbalance is a fall... and one that you cannot react to in time.

Fast is an emergency drug for a reason - you're useless and vulnerable until it wears off.

So, generally, you need to be unconscious for the trip.

Oh, and technically, given the wording, taking the antidote can be considered to be a second drug dose... which means the synergy rule applies - 1d6 x 1d6 damage. Mean damage is 12, mode is 6 damage, and median is 10, min is 1, and max is 36... If you add a 3rd drug - a general anaesthetic (not covered in mechanics, but real world medical stuff, and thus to be expected), you have 1d6 x 1d6 x 1d6 damage; mean 42.875, median 30, mode 12, min 1, max 216.

Let's look at the odds for safe fast drug travel. Anaesthetic and Fast... 2 drugs. 2 months later, you wake up, lord knows where...
Wilson Weak (555777) has a 13/36 chance of dying. 36.1%
Joe Normal (777777) has a 6/36 = 1/6 chance of dying 16.6%
Herbert Hale (CCC777) has a 1/36 chance of dying. 2.7%
Billy Bigbuff (FFF777) has a 0/36 chance of dying.
None of these are bad enough to cause the truly desperate to not go, but you'd probably need to be really desperate.

Now, add antidote...
Wilson Weak is now hitting 160/216=74% chance of death.
Joe Normal is 130/216=60% chance of death
Herbert Hale is 96/216=44% chance of death
Billy Bigbuff is 78/216=36% chance of death

So, for Safe travel, it's much more dangerous than the low berth for many.

 

[rancke]

Oh, and technically, given the wording, taking the antidote can be considered to be a second drug dose...

That would be odiously specious rules-lawyering, though.

That's just my opinion, of course.


Hans

 

[aramis]

That would be odiously specious rules-lawyering, though.

That's just my opinion, of course.


Hans

Hardly. Antidotes are listed separately in TTB. Different drug.

It provides all the disincentive players need to keep from munchkining out travel via cargo container.