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Role of psionics in the RC

Bit quiet in here init?

Just something I've half been thinking about for a while is the role of and attitude towards psionics in the RC.

I'm thinking that that the psionic suppression would be seen as very much an imperial idea, and the ptb would use any available tool in the rebuilding of instellar civilsation, but I am unsure whether it would be encouraged to the point that institutes would be built.

Anyone any ideas?

regards

Garry
 
From what I remember the RC was trying to use every possible resource to grow and that would include psionics.
 
Seeing as there are some TEDs who have psionics working for them or are themselves psionic, it would seem reasonable that the RC would be looking for some telepaths of their own. The big problem would be in training psionic characters as there are no officially sancationed Psionic Institutes in the RC nor would there be many skilled people to train potentially gifted indivudials. Should an intrepid band of explorers stumble upon such a school, I'm sure the RCES would be more than happy to help foster it and recruit its students for RCES missions.
 
I'm not entirely sure about the canonicity of the novels but Brunette's "The Death of Wisdom" has a little to say about psionics. Two of the main characters (Red Sun and Drop Kick) end up at Kruyter's chief asteroid, Kreuzung, the home of the ruling corporate polity Kruytercorp. It's run by Director Tirese Serene, a remnant telepath who rode out the Collapse in real-time using anagathics. The chapter confirms there aren't any institutes in RC space but notes that Serene was issued a psionics permit on Aurora.
 
As there are no Hi Pop worlds in the RC's two subsectors of their polity, it is a given that no institutes remain there.

Scattered psi's, like remannts do exist.
In defense of MJD's Sons of craig (the only Polity known before Virus of the former shattered imperium to embrace openly "any weapon to stave off collapse"-Survival margin, it seems more likely one would exist in daibei sector.

Now..GDW, does(does has been mentioned above) have worlds with psi Teds/Totalitarian oligarches/ Quasi religious dictatorships, etc.
on them

IMHO, the RC to a lesser degree would form s small group of these gifted individuals. From all printed sources of the RC, Aurora sems to be the most open-minded world there.

(I see them as being among the first to accept the peacekeeper Virus as sentient's, for example, and opening the breach for their eventual citizenship--Aurora's past included a robotically run farming economy-the very same kind that diced up Ole Dulinor the Black!).

if they can swallow allowing sentient machines, Psi's are an easier stretch given the horrors of the Collapse.

Again tho, as the Rc is a fractious place-Not all worlds will want psi agents about...just as not all Rc worlds will initially agree about the peacekeeper strain sentient robots!
YMMV, and thunderbolts strike me down if this sounds outta place, MJD.
(but then again, it is JUST MHO..)!
 
I'd tend to agree with Liam on this (Hi Mate), but with the addition that Spires is likely to be a hotbed of psionics - although unlikely to train others. Based on a gut feeling from the descriptions in (ISTR) Path of Tears mainly.

I'd also agree with Liam on a vast variety of attitudes about psionics amongst the RC worlds. in particular I see most of the centrist worlds/leaders being against psionics on the grounds of trust and concerns over their intel gathering capabilities (when directed inwards).

On the subject of the RC using psions because they are effective I have to disagee on this point. The RC is careful about HOW it acheives its objectives (or at least the politicl leadership is) and is very aware of the PR problems caused by using distrusted methods. (For a real world example look at Chemical weapons - very effective on the battlefield but heavily frowned on)

All IMHO of course
 
Originally posted by Zinzan:
I'd tend to agree with Liam on this (Hi Mate), but with the addition that Spires is likely to be a hotbed of psionics - although unlikely to train others. Based on a gut feeling from the descriptions in (ISTR) Path of Tears mainly.

Hi lad! How's the hair? ;)
Must concur with Zinzan here, on Spires, especailly their insularness on training only their own people.

I'd also agree with Liam on a vast variety of attitudes about psionics amongst the RC worlds. in particular I see most of the centrist worlds/leaders being against psionics on the grounds of trust and concerns over their intel gathering capabilities (when directed inwards).

Chief among these Baldur and Oriflamme!!!

On the subject of the RC using psions because they are effective I have to disagee on this point. The RC is careful about HOW it acheives its objectives (or at least the politicl leadership is) and is very aware of the PR problems caused by using distrusted methods. (For a real world example look at Chemical weapons - very effective on the battlefield but heavily frowned on)

All IMHO of course
S'all right pete, 2 outta 3 ain't bad fer a heretic like me.<grins>
But the last point I might parse ye on. SOMe worlds might have such gifted personnel and use them; and given the number of worlds with either psi govt.s, or Psi resistance movements (or both, like Yontez/Shenk-PoT,GDW),they'd have to have some qualified "specialists".

especially in contacting the Droyne on a particular world, Tinyid...(versus an oppressive psi human xenophobic series of Govt.s, and one ambivalent (towards droyne) nation...
I used this as the basis for a campaign of mine...
The Droyne's children (chirpers) were being sold offworld to slavers- But the Droyne had cast the coyns and had created many of the warrior caste and allowed small units of Kroyloss to be mixed into the ignorant Human's slave pens..seeding a resistance on worlds that used them...

We called it "Operation Dominoes", because later when the RC came in to bust a TED, they found a willing local force of warrior heavy caste Droyne to take down the Slaving govt!.

(it was very rewarding to watch it unfold after 3 years of setting it up..)
YMMV :D :cool:
 
While individual worlds (Spires, Aurora) would be willing to openly aid and encourage Psionic activity due to their particular backgrounds I have to state that I don't see the RC as a whole embracing Psionics openly...

Originally posted by Zinzan:
I'd also agree with Liam on a vast variety of attitudes about psionics amongst the RC worlds. in particular I see most of the centrist worlds/leaders being against psionics on the grounds of trust and concerns over their intel gathering capabilities (when directed inwards)
Psions are invaluble intelligence tool and the centralist govt's would much rather control them than risk encouraging the creation of Psionic Institutes out of their control. I can see those worlds/leaders who have an interest in the control of their population or intelligence gathering of other RC worlds or Wilds worlds creating tightly controlled institutes for the training of Psi "agents" and while not openly discouraging psionic use they don't particularly encourage it either. Psions can be a powerful tool but only if you can control them - and if you can't control them either ignore them (bad idea) or suppress them.
 
Publicly, worlds like Oriflamme would denounce psionics as a heresy supported by Aubaine. Privatly, however is a different story. The one common trait among all the worlds of the RC is opportunism. After all, the RC worlds all sponser missions into the wilds to steal technology both from cemetary worlds as well as from TEDs. It makes sense that any RC world would look into psionics, if only to learn methods of protecting sensitive information from enemy telepaths. Even the psionic hating Third Imperium sponsered secrect research bases devoted to psionics (RESEARCH STATION GAMMA comes to mind...).
 
Hmmm. I can see an opposite argument made for oriflamme to have a few on their F-tech state police payroll for interrogations. But as previously stated- controlled/ under the thumb of others.

Now, Droyne, we know have a prediliction for psionics amongst several of their castes.
The Droyne/ & chirpers inhabit in the subsectora around the AO some 15 systems (Daalisa (droyne & C) in Promise/Diaspora-1; as slaves on Martham & Sibbage 2-3; inhabitants of Bwann Murr(C), Coaise (C), and Tinyid(Droyne) in THoezennt/OE 4-6; Shenk (Droyne) and Mueller (C) in Shenk/OE 7-8; Femerial (C)/Karse-9; and Janazzo, Pohl (droyne both), & Patuxent, Clarke, Peart, & Pratt (chirpers) 10-15.

Not to mention that the example of the co-peaceful living Droyne-human system of Janazzo is a prime example of such cooperation near the RC..

to say nothing of the Hiver client state trailing of OE in subsector N (Kandra) Hinterworlds, the "Ring pact" ...

Adding the droyne race into the pan-sophontist plans of the RCSA worlds as allies is obviously one of the threads GDW never fully develeoped (and nearly torpedoes with "Smash & Grab's" "Operation Cosmic Fire" on Daaliisa in late 1201.

food for thought. ;)
 
IMO there is little possibility of the RC using psionics in any major way. There is no institute in RC space, so they can’t train people because no one knows how psionics works. Without a starting point the RC would depend on remnants and outsiders for it’s psions, at least until some training could be set up. That brings up the question of how psionic training works and whether anyone who is a trained psion can train others or are special facilities needed.
Also, how would the Hivers feel about psionics, since they provide so many advisers to the RC? Hivers would probably either doubt that psionics exists, since it can’t be measured by their instruments and they have no theory of how it works, or would be uncertain about psionics for the same reasons.
The existence of psionic dictatorships in the wilds would also be likely to prejudice the average RC citizen against psionics. Although you can say they aren’t prejudiced against technology by TEDs, anyone can use technological items while most people will never be powerful psions. The general public of the 3I was hostile to psionics, and even if people reject the 3I in general they can look at psionic dictatorships and think this was one thing the 3I got right.
The Droyne are not necessarily a good counter example. Although we as players know about Droyne psionics the Droyne are not exactly open about it, so very few characters would be likely to realise that anything was going on. Why should the RC government realise the Droyne are heavily involved in psionics – who would be both able and willing to tell them?
Finally I think it would be more fun when the inevitable meeting occurs between the Regency and the RC if both sides see the other doing something that they dislike. If the Regency absolutely rejects Virus and the RC doesn’t, the RC rejection of psionics which the Regency encourages gives a bit more balance to the relationship.
 
The RC is the Reformation Coalition, one of the Pocket Empires evolving after the collaspe of the Third Imperium and the default campaign setting for TRAVELLER: THE NEW ERA. I hope this helps!
 
Originally posted by TimNewman:
IMO there is little possibility of the RC using psionics in any major way. There is no institute in RC space, so they can’t train people because no one knows how psionics works. Without a starting point the RC would depend on remnants and outsiders for it’s psions, at least until some training could be set up.
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Ah, Tim. (howdy/ welcome aboard!), I most humbly disagree, they have psionic Virus busters as a career path/specilist for those few talented Schalli/Aubaine & Schall..Hivers, have a senese of psionics in those rare individuals who "dream" clairsentient/ far seeing "visionaries" amongst their kind.
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That brings up the question of how psionic training works and whether anyone who is a trained psion can train others or are special facilities needed.
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Hmm good question, never defined game wise, IIRC, except for a few TED examples in PoT/ Smash & Grab (Suudo mission IIRC).
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Also, how would the Hivers feel about psionics, since they provide so many advisers to the RC? Hivers would probably either doubt that psionics exists, since it can’t be measured by their instruments and they have no theory of how it works, or would be uncertain about psionics for the same reasons.
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Our analytical Quantificating/ manipulative friends of the Federation..ahh yes. See GDW's "Aliens of the Rim" (TNE) for my answer!
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The existence of psionic dictatorships in the wilds would also be likely to prejudice the average RC citizen against psionics.
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The avg RC citizen never adventurers into the wilds lad, tis Travellers, and Star Vikings likely encounter them! What word of them gest back to the RC safe is colored by each worlds outlook on psions..I should think?
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Although you can say they aren’t prejudiced against technology by TEDs, anyone can use technological items while most people will never be powerful psions. The general public of the 3I was hostile to psionics, and even if people reject the 3I in general they can look at psionic dictatorships and think this was one thing the 3I got right.
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I for one think the oppression of the mind, as an existentialist might see it, as another thing the 3I got wrong! The 3I did have its own facilities, for its own controlled purposes.
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The Droyne are not necessarily a good counter example. Although we as players know about Droyne psionics the Droyne are not exactly open about it, so very few characters would be likely to realise that anything was going on. Why should the RC government realise the Droyne are heavily involved in psionics – who would be both able and willing to tell them?
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IMTU, it was a remnant scholar psion PC who paved that path thru RCES..and it took him three game-years to prove it right! But, you are right, PC knowledge of Droyne etc and culture is as fraught with holes after the collapse, and not everyone's PC knows what their Players do. I cede this point, on civility sake.
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Finally I think it would be more fun when the inevitable meeting occurs between the Regency and the RC if both sides see the other doing something that they dislike. If the Regency absolutely rejects Virus and the RC doesn’t, the RC rejection of psionics which the Regency encourages gives a bit more balance to the relationship.
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I disagree again, the rift using Ai-Virus as an ally is big enough, not to mention the regency still will be seen as very pro 3I which DN's RCES did their best to demonize... Commonality ground would be using psionics but being a minority anyway, not enough to sway the majority Impact by the two cases of differecne I state above. conflict ensues..(cold war anyone?)
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Slainte Tim!
And stars for you!*****
Welcome to CoTI..
 
Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
As there are no Hi Pop worlds in the RC's two subsectors of their polity, it is a given that no institutes remain there.
That reminds me, can anyone tell me if the Zhodani Alien Module implies (or states outright) the percentage of the population that potentially has useful psionic powers (if tested and trained early)?

If you go by the character generation rules, a large majority of the population has useful psionic power levels (until they deteriorate from non-use). I've always found it strange that you need a billion or more people to generate enough need for a psionic institute. (I also think it a bit strange that you can whip up hysterical paranoia about something that 80-90% of the population potentially can learn).

IMTU I've introduced psionic potential to account for that. Potential is an either/or switch. If you don't have it, your psionic power is 0. If you have it, you psionic power can be anything from 2-12 (as per the normal rules)[*]. I then say that all PCs automatically have psionic potential ("The PCs are special").

This means that the majority of people do not have psionic powers, not even the littlest bit. The question is, however, how big a majority? I was wondering if anything in Zhodani might cast a light on that question.


[*] I allow anyone tested and trained before they're 18 to avoid the minus to the die roll.


Hans

PS. About psionics in the RC: Whatever the number of potential psionics in a population, any society that does not persecute them will have a much greater number of potential students, so worlds with smaller population will be able to support an institute. I'd say a couple of orders of magnitudes lower. So you might find one on a world with only 10 million inhabitants (or maybe a couple of tens of millions).
 
Originally posted by rancke:

That reminds me, can anyone tell me if the Zhodani Alien Module implies (or states outright) the percentage of the population that potentially has useful psionic powers (if tested and trained early)?

The majority of people do not have psionic powers, not even the littlest bit. The question is, however, how big a majority? I was wondering if anything in Zhodani might cast a light on that question.

Hi Hans,
By the official rules, any character with a Psi score of 9+ is promoted to intendant and receives training. That makes up 28% of a random sample. Unfortunately the math does not work out.
According to Alien Module 4, a municipiality of 50,000 members has approximately 2,800 Nobles who are part of the community (5.6%). It also gives a ratio of 8 intendants to 3 nobles, so there should be around 7,500 intendant (14.9%). From this, 79.5% of the population are proles.
Continuing the math, there should be as many hereditary nobles as intendants. There is no figure for the number of hereditary nobles, so I assume around 2% of the total population. The same figure for intendants leaves me with 12.9% of the population being intendants who were elevated from proles. 79.5% being proles, with 28% of them being suitable for training, gives 22% who should be promoted to intendant and given Psi training. What I assume is that a Psi score of 10+ is required for advancement. On that basis, 79.5% * 16.6% gives me 13.25% of the population will be advanced, which is close enough to my 12.9% figure to satisfy me. That suggests one in six of the population with useful psionic abilities.
Also from Alien Module 4, approximately one in seven intendants is advanced to noble status through the psionic games, and two in seven are elevated as a reward for service in later life, which means 6.4% of the population should end up as nobles! Where do these surplus intendants end up? These are the people who take the blame for the grav shuttle accidents, who die defending the Consulate from the vicious Imperial stormtroopers, or who think bad thoughts and get vigorously re-educated by the Tavrchedl’. Does this solve the problem of the Zho collapse? Did someone teach the intendants maths?


PS. About psionics in the RC: Whatever the number of potential psionics in a population, any society that does not persecute them will have a much greater number of potential students, so worlds with smaller population will be able to support an institute. I'd say a couple of orders of magnitudes lower. So you might find one on a world with only 10 million inhabitants (or maybe a couple of tens of millions).

I never thought the high population requirement made much sense. A high population world with high government code and a high law level is not going to want an alternative power centre, and is almost certainly capable of equipping a special anti-psi police unit with psi-shields. Much better to be on a world with more civil liberties (a lower law level) where unless you draw attention you can act as you want.
 
yes, I can see the intendents having a high death rate. They are sufficiently powerful / PSI to do the dangerous jobs (spys, junior officiers, captains of small warships etc.) but not too significant to be posted somewhere safe. This probably accounts for the shortfall.

Cheers
Richard
 
Originally posted by Liam Devlin:

The existence of psionic dictatorships in the wilds would also be likely to prejudice the average RC citizen against psionics.
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The avg RC citizen never adventurers into the wilds lad, tis Travellers, and Star Vikings likely encounter them! What word of them gest back to the RC safe is colored by each worlds outlook on psions..I should think?
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Although you can say they aren’t prejudiced against technology by TEDs, anyone can use technological items while most people will never be powerful psions. The general public of the 3I was hostile to psionics, and even if people reject the 3I in general they can look at psionic dictatorships and think this was one thing the 3I got right.
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I for one think the oppression of the mind, as an existentialist might see it, as another thing the 3I got wrong! The 3I did have its own facilities, for its own controlled purposes.

Hi Liam,
What I was thinking was that without trained psionic characters of it’s own, the RC would usually be fighting against hostile Psions – there is an adventure describing this somewhere. IMTU the RC is concerned with public opinion and with keeping public support for it’s activities. Because of this they provide opportunities for journalists to cover the operations of the RCES/RCN and to report on missions. Now the journalists will regularly be reporting clashes with TEDs, and will probably also report the Guilds activities in supporting TEDs with technology. This won’t turn people against technology though because they are using or benefiting from it themselves. However, there are a number of Psionic/Mystic groups that the RCES is going to clash with. Note that psionics is probably going to be more effective against RCES operations than a TEDs troops – the earliest Psi-shield is TL12, and psi-shields are not built in to RC battle dress (according to the Equipment Guide). If psionics is effective, used by the RC’s enemies, and not used by the RC I think people are going to be hostile. Why I brought up Imperial attitudes was that Imperial prejudice could still linger despite the end of the Imperium. 300 years of prejudice isn’t something likely to be forgotten easily and psionic enemies could easily become a RC bugbear. The Schalli virus busters are a great way to show how the RC can use psionics for itself, so it isn’t assumed that only the bad guys use psionics. Psionics then just becomes a tool, not evil in itself but like technology capable of evil use.

Tim Newman
 
Originally posted by TimNewman:
By the official rules, any character with a Psi score of 9+ is promoted to intendant and receives training. That makes up 28% of a random sample. Unfortunately the math does not work out.
According to Alien Module 4, a municipiality of 50,000 members has approximately 2,800 Nobles who are part of the community (5.6%). It also gives a ratio of 8 intendants to 3 nobles, so there should be around 7,500 intendant (14.9%). From this, 79.5% of the population are proles.
Thanks for the help, Tim.

This means that the number of non-proles are 73% of the expected number. This could be explained by 27% of the total population having no psionic potential at all. And this in a society that not only tolerates but encourages and nurtures psionics. That percentages could easily be a lot higher in non-Zhodani populations making psionics a true minority.


Hans
 
Originally posted by TimNewman:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hi Liam,
What I was thinking was that without trained psionic characters of it’s own, the RC would usually be fighting against hostile Psions – there is an adventure describing this somewhere. IMTU the RC is concerned with public opinion and with keeping public support for it’s activities.

**Because of this they provide opportunities for journalists to cover the operations of the RCES/RCN and to report on missions. Now the journalists will regularly be reporting clashes with TEDs, and will probably also report the Guilds activities in supporting TEDs with technology. This won’t turn people against technology though because they are using or benefiting from it themselves.
However, there are a number of Psionic/Mystic groups that the RCES is going to clash with.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
As on Suudo/Khulam; humans on Yontez/Shenk; droyne & humans on Shenk/Shenk, & Tinyid/Thoezennt; droyne on Daaliisa/promise (operation Cosmic Fire-also covered by a Journbalist!And exposed)...so noted<nods>.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Note that psionics is probably going to be more effective against RCES operations than a TEDs troops – the earliest Psi-shield is TL12, and psi-shields are not built in to RC battle dress (according to the Equipment Guide).
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in the OTU of RC space, this can have an impact, yes. Psionics/Mysticism is hinted at on Spires/Aubaine in PoT, but left undeveloped in a gray area for GMs to use or ignore. Frankly, a society at TL-2 ythat has joined an interstellar polity like the RC would be perfect for such skills..as well as the Schalli..(with intendant anti-Aubani prejudices from centrist planets of the league/federation, coalition).
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

If psionics is effective, used by the RC’s enemies, and not used by the RC I think people are going to be hostile. Why I brought up Imperial attitudes was that Imperial prejudice could still linger despite the end of the Imperium. 300 years of prejudice isn’t something likely to be forgotten easily and psionic enemies could easily become a RC bugbear.
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Yes, that MIGHT be plausible save for the heavy DN-anti Imperial feelings the RC has!!! This is after all a "NEW era".. :D .
Agreed the 300 year prejudices are harder to remove than may be presumed by Hand wavium*(a forbidden element of the peridoic charts IMTU, along with unobtanium & Bolonium! ;) ).
BUT..the use of psionics VERSUS virus paves the way for its acceptance.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
**The Schalli virus busters are a great way to show how the RC can use psionics for itself, so it isn’t assumed that only the bad guys use psionics. Psionics then just becomes a tool, not evil in itself but like technology capable of evil use.

Tim Newman
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yes ther Schalli-Virus busters, and human computer empaths will spoearhead the acceptance. The need for counter-psi agents & or technology(shields) is apparent in the stream of logic as the RC's "vikings" encounter the above mentuioned adventures/ planets/ and natives.

The role of journalists does not go unnoticed in the RC--quite true, my 14yr old daughter has a PC of that type, just so in MTU campaign set there...!
 
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