Rogue Class Skills and Feats...

[Stargrove]

1) A friend and I were generating a Rogue last night and had gotten to picking skills. He said he wanted Driving, so I said ok, let read what it says.

Driving says you can take the skill if you already have the corresponding vehicle feat (I think that should read vessel feat since there are no vehicle feats). So we looked more closely at the Rogue class feats and could not find any Vessel feats listed.

The rules say, for feats, that you must select from the class feat list unless yo already have all the listed feats (not very likely).

Does this seem like a problem to anyone else, or am I just out in left field?

2) Why does the Rogue not have access to the feat Connections (Streetwise) or Connections (Underworld)? I would have thought that if anyone had this feat it would be the Rogue.

 

[Tom Schoene]

It does seem a little odd, but it's not insurmountable.

The class feat list is only important for bonus feat slots that come from your class. You can spend your other feat slots on any feat that isn't specific to a class. So you could pick up Connections or Vessel feats out of your startig feat list or from the character feats you get every three levels.

 

[GypsyComet]

Originally posted by Stargrove:
1) A friend and I were generating a Rogue last night and had gotten to picking skills. He said he wanted Driving, so I said ok, let read what it says.

Driving says you can take the skill if you already have the corresponding vehicle feat (I think that should read vessel feat since there are no vehicle feats). So we looked more closely at the Rogue class feats and could not find any Vessel feats listed.

The rules say, for feats, that you must select from the class feat list unless yo already have all the listed feats (not very likely).

Does this seem like a problem to anyone else, or am I just out in left field?

Did you generate a homeworld for this character? (pg 30-33). Any character from a Mid, High or Very High Tech world will have some sort of vehicle feat (bottom of pg 33). As a generic human, you'll have two other feats at first level that can be used for such things as well.

As for "creating a Rogue", consider that multi-classing is freely allowed barring requirements of the new class, and is encouraged. You certainly CAN stick to one class, but don't feel you need to.

 

[Stargrove]

Well...he was from a low tech world. As for multi-classing, there are advantages and disadvantages to that, namely advancement becomes much slower.

Being a veteran D&D3e DM I have seen the ups and downs of both. He decided to only stay with the Rogue...

 

[PapaGolfWhiskey]

Don't forget to distinguise between Class feats and Character feats.

he get's both and can always take an appropriate vessel feat when a general feat comes up.

 

[GypsyComet]

Originally posted by Stargrove:
Well...he was from a low tech world. As for multi-classing, there are advantages and disadvantages to that, namely advancement becomes much slower.

Being a veteran D&D3e DM I have seen the ups and downs of both. He decided to only stay with the Rogue...

Good for him, but don't depend on your knowledge of the D&D classes when deciding on the merits of multi-classing in T20. The merits and drawbacks depend very strongly on the actual classes. There are very few "power goals" within the T20 classes (like, for example, getting to Wizard-5 so you can use Fireball), so the idea that "advancement" is "slower" is much weaker than in D&D.

 

[Stargrove]

Garf,

I see your point about the character and class feats...we will keep that in mind next time...

 

[Doomguide]

Do you mean advancement of your Rogue level or your overall character level? I believe it says you suffer no experience penalty for multiclassing (ie since it's "encouraged") so your overall advancement shouldn't be slowed.

 

[themink]

Yes - That's right, there is no penalty for multi-classing. So an Eigth level character might be an 8th level belter or a 3rd Belter/5th Rogue or a 3rd Belter/3rd Rogue/2nd Academic.

Up side of multi-classing - you get the "initial" class feats for each class - so you will have a wide range of "basic" feats. You will also end up with a broad range of skills (see below)

Down side - Generally your BAB doesn;t go up for the first level or two - so your BAB will probably be lower than a single class character. Also many of the feats have long lists of prereqs - you probably won;t have enough "depth" to get these feats.

Skills - Each time you go up a level, you only get full value for your skill points if you spend them on class skills for the class you just went up. So if the class you just went up doesn;t have your "best" skill as a class skill, you won;t be able to increase it without paying twice the standard cost. The result of this is that multi-class characters will have lower skills than single class unless they concentrate on skills that "all" of their classes have - in which case, why be multi-class.

Fundamentally, generalists multi-class, specialists single class - exactly as intended (IMHO)