Retinae

[daryen]

The world of Retinae is given the CT/MT UWP of:
0416 E8C69AA-5 Hi Fl RsD 910Cs M9 V

That means there are 9 billion inhabitants living on a world with an Insidious atmosphere, but with only a TL of 5. There is no evidence there is an minor alien race there.[*] There is no evidence for an adapted minor human race, either. So, by implication, this is 9 billion "Imperial standard" humans living on this world with a completely inadequate TL.

The Regency Sourcebook attempts to address this by increasing the TL from 5 to 8. That volume reinforces the idea of normal humans by listing it as a Zhodani refugee world.

GT:Behind the Claw attempts to deal with the issue by creating a new minor alien race, the Tashaki. This would likely make the most sense, but BtC is the only place in all of canon that suggests this.

To resolve this issue, there would appear to be three basic explanations for the UWP:
- They are standard humans who somehow have a mechanical way to survive and thrive in an insidious atmosphere. (The OTU default.)
- They are modified humans (either by the Ancients or Imperium; most likely the Imperium) designed to survive and thrive in an insidious atmosphere.
- They are a minor alien race that calls this particular type of insidious atmosphere "normal". (The GTU/BtC answer.)

My question to the gallery is this: Which solution works best for an OTU solution? I am not worried about MTU or YTU. I specifically want a solution that works best with 'canon'.

* In CT or MT. As I mention lower in this message, both TNE and GT try to address the inconsistency, but with different answers.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Best solution for canon OTU (IMHO) would be that the occupants live below ground. It helps if you explain TL5 as a backslide - technology then helps them build the tunnels/warrens and so forth. We built places that were secure against mustard gas in WWI - this would be the same thing (on a longer term scale).

 

[daryen]

I could go for that if the population was 4 or 5 something. But Retinae's population is 9.

If they are successfully sealed underground, how do they interact with visitors? It is obvious they still have contact with outsiders, but they have no starport. How do they safely unseal then reseal their entrance(s)?

The real question, of course, is if they are sealed underground, how do they get enough food to survive, much less thrive as they appear to have? It can't be by import since they don't have enough traffic to support that. They have to provide their own food for themselves. But how?

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by daryen:
My question to the gallery is this: Which solution works best for an OTU solution? I am not worried about MTU or YTU. I specifically want a solution that works best with 'canon'.

Daryen,

I'll vote for the nonhuman minor race solution.

Are you sure about the MT references? I know you've done a great deal of research for this region of the Marches but I've got this nagging memory of a sentence or three regarding Retinae. Something about the Emperor maintaining Imperial presence on the planet in the face of Zhodani pressure? And some sort of hint regarding the research station? (The world had a research station which further supports the nonhuman minor race solution.)


Have fun,
Bill

P.S. The snippet said something like "The Emperor has stood fast" or "remained firm" in the "face of Zhodani/Consulate demands".

 

[mike wightman]

Bill,

is it the original Spinward Marches supplement you are thinking of?

The Imperium has long maintained (since 556) a research station in the Retinae system for the purpose of communications research... the station has frequently figured in Zhodani diplomatic protests. Its long-standing presence at Retinae and the steadfastness of the Emperor has served to maintain its continued operation.

From this I would infer that the research station isn't on Retinae itself, but is somewhere else in the system.

So I too would go with a minor race answer.

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by daryen:
My question to the gallery is this: Which solution works best for an OTU solution? I am not worried about MTU or YTU. I specifically want a solution that works best with 'canon'.

I would say that the existence of 9 billion sentients with TL 5 technology is evidence of non-humans in itself. I'm sorry to hear that RegS made it a Zhodani Refugee world. The tech level increase is not a problem, because aliens can improve their technology too.

Is there a way to account for the refugee Zhodani by having them live elsewhere in the system?


Hans

 

[Pickles]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
Best solution for canon OTU (IMHO) would be that the occupants live below ground. It helps if you explain TL5 as a backslide - technology then helps them build the tunnels/warrens and so forth. We built places that were secure against mustard gas in WWI - this would be the same thing (on a longer term scale).

Oddly enough, I ran a short campaign based on this very premise back in the days of pen-and-paper. What is the reference to outside contact? I don't have it in my LBB library. The food problem could be overcome by fungal/yeast culture technology (a bit of handwaving). With a sealed underground community (provided the resources problem is overcome), it's quite feasible to pack a lot of people into a small space.

For a RW example, check out the late lamented Kowloon Walled City (interesting in its own right as a case study of a functioning anarchy). A population density of 1.9 million per square km. Admittedly, this excludes the resource footprint, but there was local industry and food processing to the extent of large-scale 'export' (think about it next time you eat a grilled fishball

). Some pictures

And that imperial research station? Communications research? Riiight ...

 

[hydrozoa]

I cannot access my Traveller materials so this may be in error, but I distinctly remember reading that one purpose of the research station was to "observe interactions on high population worlds" or some such idea. Now, that was probably a "front" for Longbow et al,but it just may give a cryptic bit of information about the inhabitants of Retinae.
An aside, I also don't think a world with an insidious atmosphere will house billions of people to begin with, but in this case Retinae's people once had a higher tech level. The frontier wars came, and the shrinking Imperial border left Retinae behind. And perhaps enough technical knowledge (with a little help from the research station???) remained to prevent mass death.
That being said, if you can work out a minor race that fits this mold, I would go with it. (Just maybe this is a world colonized by the aliens from Shadows??? Come to think of it, I like that better than the "regressed humans" idea.)

 

[daryen]

Linking it with Shadows is a good idea. It could help explain why it wasn't listed as an alien homeworld despite have billions of the little lizards running around: it isn't their homeworld.

And the research station is there to observe them and try and figure out their larger story.

I can buy that.

(As for the Zhodani refugees in RSB. I plan on just assuming that was a typo. There were enough in the RSB listings that I should be able to get away with that.)

 

[Fritz_Brown]

You don't even need a yeast/fungal culture to grow your food. TL5 has electricity, ya know, for grow lights and such.

 

[mike wightman]

I like the Shadows' lizards idea too.

Originally posted by Hans:
Is there a way to account for the refugee Zhodani by having them live elsewhere in the system?

I like this idea tas well. Trouble is that according to the numbers there could be up to 2 billion Zhodani refugees
Could a lot of them still be in cold sleep while the Regency works to construct a planetoid settlement?

 

[Pickles]

Hmm, lizards ... this could evolve into a cool follow-on adventure from Shadows ...

Can someone enlighten an uninformed party about this Zhodani refugee business? Where did that come from?

 

[mike wightman]

A plot device from TNE called the Empress Wave hit the Zhodani, it messed with strong Psi users, and lead to social chaos.

According to the TNE Regency sourcebook 30 billion Zhodani refugees entered the Regency (the name given to the Imperium within the Marches now) in just over a year.

[aside]This number of refugees is as absurd to me as the Aslan invasions of the MT era, but that's just my opinion.[/aside]

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Bill, is it the original Spinward Marches supplement you are thinking of?

Sigg,

That's it. Thank you!

The CT-era communications research can dovetail nicely into the later nonhuman minor race 'solution'. The research station is there to research communications with the locals. Something about the fashion in which they communicate is interesting/intriguing. In G:T one of the megacorps (Naasirka?) has a research effort on the Shrieker homeworld for the same purpose.


Have fun,
Bill

P.S. I got nothing to explain the ~2 billion Zhos or the fact that 30 (!!!) billion entered the Regency in one year (!!!).

 

[Pickles]

Ah, I see. TNE went straight past me, I'm afraid. If the refugees are TNE, though, Daryen presumably doesn't have to contend with them for a CT/MT setting?

2 billion refugees to one very unpleasant planet ... refugees normally have a better sense of direction than that.

 

[daryen]

Regarding the Zhodani refugees:

If I have my way, the 30 billion figure refers to all of the known refugees over the period of the Exodus, not just the first year. Slight change, yes, but at least it can work that way.[*]

Again, as for Retinae's status as a refugee world in TNE, I truly do plan on just ignoring that. (Not necessarily changing it; just pretending like it didn't exist.) I only mention the issue to show how TNE viewed the population, not to be an issue in and of itself.

Finally, my focus on CT/MT was for the background material. There are lots of MT material (primarily Challenge and TD articles) that I have no access to (and will likely never have access to). I have all the reference material I need for GT and TNE. (TNE really only has one: the Regency Sourcebook.) I didn't mean to imply the results of this were for CT/MT.

[*] I actually don't have a problem with 30 billion refugees. Since they are coming from all across the former Consulate, transportation isn't really an issue. The issue is getting to the destinations. If you have 30 billion refugees in one year, pity the poor traffic controllers at (say) Jewel (or even Esalin). Any orbital facilities and vehicles probably have to just leave all windows shuttered due to the continuous and neverending jump flashes. It's actually a pretty cool image if you are the one there having to deal with it.

 

[mike wightman]

Retinae makes sense as a refugee stopping off point/temporary shelter.

The population increase could just be the lizards laying more eggs

 

[daryen]

I do have a follow on request for anyone with a Challenge collection.

Is Retinae mentioned, described, used as an adventure setting, or whatever, in any issue of Challenge?

Thanks.

(I'd look myself, but I have no access to anything from Challenge, except for the segments put in the third JTAS Reprints book.)

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by daryen:
Linking it with Shadows is a good idea. It could help explain why it wasn't listed as an alien homeworld despite have billions of the little lizards running around: it isn't their homeworld.

No need to explain that. The list obviously isn't inclusive. Even disregarding the seven new ones from BtC (which you wouldn't have to twist my arm to get me to go along with), there are the Shriekers, the Pelosians, and the natives of Tionale. And, IMO, the Crawians too.


Hans

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Hans:
Is there a way to account for the refugee Zhodani by having them live elsewhere in the system?

[qb]I like this idea tas well. Trouble is that according to the numbers there could be up to 2 billion Zhodani refugees
Could a lot of them still be in cold sleep while the Regency works to construct a planetoid settlement? </font>[/QUOTE]It's not so important how many there could be. The question is, how few does the available data allow us to assume?


Hans