{PREVIEW} The Vargr
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trader jim
SOC-14 1K
Charisma score - interesting - could a high score effect humans? i get a hint that it could in your explaniation. can a vargar put togeather a crew of humans using charisma??
would or do humans follow vargar?? could make for some interesting missions or senerious.
would or do humans follow vargar?? could make for some interesting missions or senerious.
Gaming Glen
SOC-12
Ability score mods: 2 -2s vs. 1 +2?
Their other abilities do not balance with having 2 -2s mods.
After watching some documentaries (I know, not the best reference materials) about dogs and their sense of smell I'd give the Vargr a bit more bonuses. Say, +4 bonus to Search, and a +2 bonus to Spot with another +2 if downwind (and add some description of how to determine/play upwind/downwind situations). These do not apply when in a contained environment such as a space suit. Smells from different planets could affect Vargr as well (i.e., some planets might have a smell that no Vargr will go there... or a planet that smells like dead fish causing a Vargr to roll on the ground uncontrollably at times [Fort save, DC 15]
).
I think you need to emphasis the unhuman-like nature of the Vargr, or any other alien; otherwise aliens get played like a human in a costume (even more so than elves and dwarves, etc).
Glen
Their other abilities do not balance with having 2 -2s mods.
After watching some documentaries (I know, not the best reference materials) about dogs and their sense of smell I'd give the Vargr a bit more bonuses. Say, +4 bonus to Search, and a +2 bonus to Spot with another +2 if downwind (and add some description of how to determine/play upwind/downwind situations). These do not apply when in a contained environment such as a space suit. Smells from different planets could affect Vargr as well (i.e., some planets might have a smell that no Vargr will go there... or a planet that smells like dead fish causing a Vargr to roll on the ground uncontrollably at times [Fort save, DC 15]
I think you need to emphasis the unhuman-like nature of the Vargr, or any other alien; otherwise aliens get played like a human in a costume (even more so than elves and dwarves, etc).
Glen
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gaming Glen:
Ability score mods: 2 -2s vs. 1 +2?
Their other abilities do not balance with having 2 -2s mods.
I think you need to emphasis the unhuman-like nature of the Vargr, or any other alien; otherwise aliens get played like a human in a costume (even more so than elves and dwarves, etc).
Glen<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree with Gaming Glen - according to the Dungeon Master's Guide, a bonus on Dexterity is more than outweighed by malusses to Strength AND Constitution. Perhaps malusses to Strength and Wisdom would have been very Vargr-like.
Ability score mods: 2 -2s vs. 1 +2?
Their other abilities do not balance with having 2 -2s mods.
I think you need to emphasis the unhuman-like nature of the Vargr, or any other alien; otherwise aliens get played like a human in a costume (even more so than elves and dwarves, etc).
Glen<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree with Gaming Glen - according to the Dungeon Master's Guide, a bonus on Dexterity is more than outweighed by malusses to Strength AND Constitution. Perhaps malusses to Strength and Wisdom would have been very Vargr-like.
Pierce_Inverarity
SOC-9
It all depends on whether you go with the D&D (but not necessarily d20) notion of "game balance." Making the Vargr somewhat weaker than the default humans is not *necessarily* a mistake--as long as you make it clear, e.g. by giving the other nonhuman races equally widely divergent bonuses (positive or negative), that what you're aiming for isn't balance but strongly marked variety.
OTOH there's the fact that an ordinary Traveller campaign is much less populated with nonhuman PCs than a D&D campaign... so that a weak Vargr will be an even less popular PC to play--from a number-crunching POV, anyway.
[This message has been edited by Pierce_Inverarity (edited 22 May 2002).]
OTOH there's the fact that an ordinary Traveller campaign is much less populated with nonhuman PCs than a D&D campaign... so that a weak Vargr will be an even less popular PC to play--from a number-crunching POV, anyway.
[This message has been edited by Pierce_Inverarity (edited 22 May 2002).]
hunter
Ancient - Absent Friend
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gaming Glen:
Ability score mods: 2 -2s vs. 1 +2?
Their other abilities do not balance with having 2 -2s mods.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No they do not balance as per the DMG, but they reflect the original modifiers from CT (-1 Str, -1 End, +1 Dex).
Hunter
Ability score mods: 2 -2s vs. 1 +2?
Their other abilities do not balance with having 2 -2s mods.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No they do not balance as per the DMG, but they reflect the original modifiers from CT (-1 Str, -1 End, +1 Dex).
Hunter
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hunter:
No they do not balance as per the DMG, but they reflect the original modifiers from CT (-1 Str, -1 End, +1 Dex).
Hunter<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The Traveller canon and different combat parameters in a futuristic environment are of course valid arguments against Glens and my more mechanistic perspective.
All in all, I'm very much looking forward to the T20 book!
No they do not balance as per the DMG, but they reflect the original modifiers from CT (-1 Str, -1 End, +1 Dex).
Hunter<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The Traveller canon and different combat parameters in a futuristic environment are of course valid arguments against Glens and my more mechanistic perspective.
All in all, I'm very much looking forward to the T20 book!
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hunter:
DEX applies to both melee and ranged combat in T20 instead of STR for melee and DEX for ranged.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hmmm. Interesting. So will a character get ANYTHING for having a high STR?
If the answer is no, I don't blame you. just be ready for a bunch of PCs with STR 6.
DEX applies to both melee and ranged combat in T20 instead of STR for melee and DEX for ranged.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hmmm. Interesting. So will a character get ANYTHING for having a high STR?
If the answer is no, I don't blame you. just be ready for a bunch of PCs with STR 6.
PierceBoldmen
SOC-7
I am sure that Str will be needed. Low Str characters won't be able to wear the heavy armor, or carry much. They won't do as much damage in melee as well. I'd like to see a Str 6 character walk around on a high gav planet.
Gaming Glen
SOC-12
Ah, thanks for the explanation. All I could see were the raw numbers, not how they work in the game.
My statement still stands that more emphasis needs to be placed on an alien's alienness. Otherwise an alien will be a human in a "bug" suit.
Since Vargr are descendent from our own wolves, players will already know how wolves behave here on earth and apply that somewhat to their Vargr character (how do you distract a Vargr guard? Have a cat that runs away. A thrown tennis ball or a stick might work as well.
). But, I wonder if a different alien can be played effectively? I guess aliens can be more fully explained in an alien "handbook". (ka-ching!)
Re: STR
What?! STR is unimportant? What about all these "sci-fi" miniature games (*cough* Warhammer *cough*) with brawny space orcs that use melee weapons? You mean those games are not for real?
Glen
My statement still stands that more emphasis needs to be placed on an alien's alienness. Otherwise an alien will be a human in a "bug" suit.
Since Vargr are descendent from our own wolves, players will already know how wolves behave here on earth and apply that somewhat to their Vargr character (how do you distract a Vargr guard? Have a cat that runs away. A thrown tennis ball or a stick might work as well.
Re: STR
What?! STR is unimportant? What about all these "sci-fi" miniature games (*cough* Warhammer *cough*) with brawny space orcs that use melee weapons? You mean those games are not for real?
Glen
Couple of points:
I think the Class would be a bit better balanced that if you gave the Vargr the "Scent" Feat (monster Feat mentioned in the DMG). This would would really match their "keen sense of smell" a lot better than just a +1 to Search.
Also, the reference to "+1 to BaB when using teeth and claws" is a bit of an odd reference. Base Attack Bonus is level-based stat is applied to both melee and ranged attacks, and is also used in determining accessibility to certain Feats. A better way of saying this would be "+1 attack bonus in melee combat when using teeth and claws".
Terminology is important when dealing with established systems...
I think the Class would be a bit better balanced that if you gave the Vargr the "Scent" Feat (monster Feat mentioned in the DMG). This would would really match their "keen sense of smell" a lot better than just a +1 to Search.
Also, the reference to "+1 to BaB when using teeth and claws" is a bit of an odd reference. Base Attack Bonus is level-based stat is applied to both melee and ranged attacks, and is also used in determining accessibility to certain Feats. A better way of saying this would be "+1 attack bonus in melee combat when using teeth and claws".
Terminology is important when dealing with established systems...
Hmmm. Interesting. So will a character get ANYTHING for having a high STR?
If the answer is no, I don't blame you. just be ready for a bunch of PCs with STR 6.</font>[/QUOTE]High STR gives increased melee damage and carrying capacity. Just not bonuses to hit.
