Personal Shields

[Blue Ghost]

Recall Dune the personal shields the nobility used?

Let's stat this device for Traveller. How would it function? What kind of DMs and/or Penetration/Attenuation factors would it have?

What would it's power consumption be like, and how long would it last? Could it be recharged?

Thoughts?

 

[Valarian]

The Dune body shield is basically a kinetic dampening device. Objects travelling at velocity are stopped while a slow blade passes through.

In T20 terms, the device would defend against all projectile weapons and give a penalty of -2 to all melee attacks against the wearer.

Oh ... laser weapons. Well the shield doesn't react too well to them. If a laser or energy weapon intersects the shield, then an explosion occurs causing 6d12 damage to all targets in a 6 meter radius.

The cost? At least 500KCr.

The shield can be run for up to 1 minute (10 combat rounds). Body shields can be recharged at any power point taking 2 hours.

 

[Blue Ghost]

That's an interesting take. Is the explosion side effect something from Frank Herbert's books?

Wouldn't it run for more than 1 minute, though? I'm just curious and really have no idea.

Anybody else?

 

[veltyen]

Yeah. The laser effect is in the original. A laser rifle and a sheild was a poor mans tac-nuke. Not quite as noisy as a real nuke, but similar in effect.

Dunno about how short they ran, I got the feeling that they lasted a little longer then that, but were damn uncomfortable to use.

I would also have the restriction that you loose your dex bonus while it was on, you needed to move slowly and carefully while it was active.

I think the main advantage was that only the wealthy (and some elite military units) had access to them, and while their protection wasn't that good against someone who knew how they worked it was damn effective against anyone who hadn't encountered one before.

I would probably implement along similar lines to the above. Some massive bonus to AC against projectiles, as projectile weapons could still get through, a smaller bonus to melee, and a certain disadvantage against lasers. Something like +20 vs projectiles, +5 against melee, and 15d20 20m radius against lasers.

 

[Valarian]

Also, the laser explosion effect is at the shielded point and at the source of the laser (maybe a lesser explosion at source - enough to destroy gun and gunner, but not add much to collateral damage). LasGuns against Shields in Dune destroy both the shielded target and the LasGun. They also drive the sandworms crazy. Worms will cross territory boundaries to destroy a shield in the desert.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Interesting, Valarian. I wonder how much such a device would cost? Guesstimate; 1 Mcr and upwards. Perhaps the 1Mcr is the "nuke-LASER" mishap baseline version, with higher models negating this danger, or reducing it to a dynamite or firecracker sized thing (model depending).

I can picture the high nobility (like the Emperor, maybe his wife and some of his immediate family), and several Archdukes having them, and/or, like you said, a select few elite military units.

Interesting stuff. Anybody else?

 

[Spinward Scout]

Has anyone tried the personal shields in Fading Suns?

Also, there used to be a Dune RPG - I wonder if there's any stats in that...

 

[Thunderbolt]

What would be the tech level for such a device ? I've used such a concept in my background stories, and have always assumed it to be way, way ahead of normal tech levels.

 

[TheEngineer]

Hi !

A combined short range sensor, a multi-repulsor unit ,a integral holo-projector for the visual effects and a power supply.
Repulsors are TL 10 so massive size advancement could be expected up to TL 15.

I would suggest
TL15, 250000 Cr, 15 liters, 10 kg

Effect:
Modifies pen value:
new pen value = 3 - old value
up to a limit of pen XX ?

Regards,

TE

 

[Thunderbolt]

I was thinking of super high tech levels, rather than anything within reach of conventional Traveller tech levels.

It would have to be able to move and morph with its wearer which would suggest a body suit or perhaps markers tacked on (like motion capture dots) that would tell the field generator where in space the body and limbs were. You can imagine the consequences of a misplaced field if it was in the wrong place!

Assuming conservation of energy / inertia still applies, there would be some interesting design challenges about where the shock of impacts would be felt and whether a sufficiently large impact could incapacitate the wearer.

I forget when white globe generators appear but I seem to remember it is around tech level 18, so to make something with similar characteristics that is portable suggests a very high tech level indeed.

 

[Plankowner]

It wouldn't have to morph. It could just be a sphere around the person. Sure the movies showed it as a morphing thing, but that was Hollywood. I don't think any of the books ever said it was contoured to the bodies. I am also pretty sure that in one of the Prequals, that a Shield Effect was described as a field effect, so spherical would make sense.

It was tied to Suspensor Technology, which in Traveller COULD be Gravitics... maybe it isn't so high tech after all... Dune was certainly NOT a high tech civilization.

 

[Anthony]

Originally posted by Thunderbolt:
What would be the tech level for such a device ? I've used such a concept in my background stories, and have always assumed it to be way, way ahead of normal tech levels.

Undefined and not really definable. It's a superscience device that falls outside of standard tech paths, and thus might be impossible, might be very high tech, or might be medium to low tech and not discovered for some reason.

 

[Vargas]

There was an article in a 1980s gaming magazine, sorry forgot which one, which had just such personal shields as Traveller ultratech artifacts and a justification for knowing blade combat. A version of the Exit Visa adventure was in the same issue.

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

I would think such a device would be in the means of the normal traveller tech levels, considering that they have had artificial gravity since tl 10.

I would say the refinement of a planar graviton-controlling field could start at backpack sized units at tl 13, and get smaller and smaller from there. The field would be of a nature that would rob incoming physical projectiles of thier kinetic energy. An anti laser field of that type would use light distortion by gravity, which is like on a scale with black holes. May not be exactly man portable.

The Dune Encylopedia (if you can find one for under 200 bucks) gives a pretty good description of the Holtzman Shield/Holtzman Effect. Also, if I remember correctly, the Foundation from the foundation books had necklace sized force fields with generators the size of a walnut..

I'd say the easiest way of keeping them from unbalancing a game would be to make them prohibitively expensive, in the multi MCr range. Alternately to give them an "Achilles Heel" is another good method.

It would also be a good device to cement a given noble's power by making him/her virtually invulnerable, or at least an edge over would be assassins.

 

[Thunderbolt]

so spherical would make sense

That might give it the limitation that others thought it might need, not being able to walk through doorways, getting in and out of vehicles, moving through crowds, using stairs and ladders, etc..

Perhaps the morphing field would be available at higher tech levels to mitigate those problems and limitations.

Assuming it is a gravitic device rather than a white globe generator, any thoughts on what the suit would like ? A patchwork quilt of padded grav field generators over the body?

Would it have other limitations, is there such thing as a gravitic backwash, after all the force required to deflect a blade using grav would generate a fearsome gravity gradient that might affect the wearer.

Inverse square law would give you some nasty collateral effects nearby when the would be assassin makes his attack. Also since momentum and inertia come into play, the wearer of the gravity based shield would experience some nasty action - reaction effects, the shield would generate thrust pushing the wearer away from the attacker.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Thunderbolt; myself, like battledress IMTU, I always pictured there being several different makes and models. Like clothes or cars, there'd be stock designs on one end and custom fits on the other end of the design spectrum.

A high end model might hug the body, where a lot end model might be the previously described sphere, with various makes and models in between.

I'm not sure why it would be considered gravitic though. Might not there be other sciences and technologies to justify it?

 

[veltyen]

Gravitic == Magic.

Once you call it gravitic you don't need reasons. That is the primary reason why you might say that. Most other sheilding options tend to result in the death of the occupant.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Why would they die though? It's a shield

 

[veltyen]

Well, EM sheilds tend to scramble brains and nervous systems, not to mention certain discharge problems.

It does depend on how you define the problem. If it is "stop being hit by bullet" then these methods may work. You won't be hit by the bullet

 

[Blue Ghost]

Ah, but that's assuming a lot about the engineering of the device.

So let's pretend it has a central nexus, and the field is generated from that. This means that said generator would probably be worn near a persons soloplexis, either below the chest and above the torso on the front of the body, or in mid vertebrae on the back. And that said field would be of such strength and intensity that, as you say, the wearer, were we discussing conventional early 21st century science and technology, would kill the wearer.

That's bad .... depending

But, if field dynamics are proven to be controllable, then any field can be created without harming the individual. This is cool

This means that an observed science is not the end all when addressing an engineering application. This is doubly cool because it means we can create our shield with a wave of the hand!