PDF core rules v5.09 Page 193

[Nemesis_Pans]

Have I got it right. Grenade or Land mine versus Flash bang.
Which has the most effect? All are Frag 1. The Flash bang has more effects on Bang and flash as well?

 

[Daddicus]

That looks like a bug. I would add it to the errata, if it's not already there.

 

[Nemesis_Pans]

Military explosives

I am running a T5 game on roll20. The guys tooled up with flash bangs instead of grenades.

When I consulted the tables I realised why they picked them. AR of the bad guys is set against penetration, Bullets and frag damage. The successful attack is qualified by the roll 1D6-1. Hit = 0. Near miss = 1.

So the near miss 2 rolled on the die has deaf for 1D6 turns =Grenade but deaf for 2D6 turns and blind for 3D6 turns =Flash bang. Possible the victim would be deaf for 12 turns and blind for 18 turns. About 12 minutes deaf and 18 minutes blind.

All I can do is to have the bad guys spread out and in head protection to prevent Bang and Flash getting an good chance to end the combat with a lucky throw. A grenade will get soaked up with the AR of cloth= 14

 

[pendragonman]

These effects are deliberate for flash bangs, although your timescale for a round might be off. T5 combat rounds have no fixed length and can be as quick or as long as necessary for the actions of both sides. So your idea of 12/18 minutes may be more like 4/6 minutes in actual time but still 12/18 rounds.

Don't get me wrong, 12 rounds is clearly long enough to secure prisoners or finish them off if they are a particularly bloodthirsty crew.

As to protections, the full helmet with visor (p221) should be sufficient. The chart on p235 gives flash protection of 12 and a Soundproof (bang protection) of 5. Downside is the downside of a full helmet---+1 burden, perhaps limited vision as well.

Personally, I don't see your players as taking flash-bangs as trying to out maneuver your body armor, but as a way to be less deadly.

 

[Selandia]

It is quite possible to have a grenade with Frag, Flash, Bang or to have one FB only (anti riot, hostage present, or low material damage expectations such as retaking the bridge).

Note that environment makes a lot of change on those effect figures. Have you tried to fire w/o hear muff in an enclosed range? Bangs are a lot more bangs when compartment clearing (ship or building). Then, there is no noise in vacuum, but the helmet of spacesuits will (should) offer flash protection and when in pressurized environment a mesure of noise protection.

have fun

Selandia

 

[Nemesis_Pans]

Frag effect

Yes true enough guys but i was expecting the grenade frag or ballistic damage to be greater than the flash / bang is. The Players forgot to use them in the rough and tumble of the last firefight anyway. They used the grav belts and entered through the roof and shot the bad guys only one prisoner so the story line survived the encounter on Sanches. They are off to Rundan, core sector 0516. We are in Milieu 0, (Page 10 & 11 Hardback copy) running a campaign against the Interstellar Confederacy.

 

[Ackehece]

Have I got it right. Grenade or Land mine versus Flash bang.
Which has the most effect? All are Frag 1. The Flash bang has more effects on Bang and flash as well?

Looking at the chart I would expect that blast and frag should not be part of a flash bang.

Purpose driven damage types are what we are looking for when designing weapons and I think that this is definitely an ERRATA ISSUE.

A flashbang is a stunning weapon used to create tactical advantage without killing
"Stun grenade. A stun grenade, also known as a flash grenade, flashbang or sound bomb, is a non-lethal explosive device used to temporarily disorient an enemy's senses. It is designed to produce a blinding flash of light and an intensely loud "bang" of greater than 170 decibels (dB) without causing permanent injury."

PRIMARY DAMAGE TYPE
bang - deafen
flash - blind

sound - probably a damage required to type to add - creates effect stun

DAMAGE TYPES THAT GO AGAINST PURPOSE
frag -
blast -



Standard Grenades and Mines
"A grenade is a small bomb typically thrown by hand." (maybe HE or FRAG)
"A bomb is an explosive weapon that uses the exothermic reaction of an explosive material to provide an extremely sudden and violent release of energy. "
"A land mine is an explosive device concealed under or on the ground and designed to destroy or disable enemy targets, ranging from combatants to vehicles and tanks, as they pass over or near it. "

PRIMARY DAMAGE TYPE
frag -
blast -
ratio depends on if HE or Frag

might potentially have
pen -
bullet -
(AP or Antitank)

SECONDARY DAMAGE TYPE (lower valued)
bang -
flash-

 

[Original_Carl]

For a secondary damage type, if you're looking for a debilitating, non-lethal effect on a Stun grenade, I recommend "pain" -- I used that for a taser-like weapon I equipped some high-tech starport security thugs with.

 

[Ackehece]

For a secondary damage type, if you're looking for a debilitating, non-lethal effect on a Stun grenade, I recommend "pain" -- I used that for a taser-like weapon I equipped some high-tech starport security thugs with.

yes pain does seem appropriate
so flash bang pain would be the appropriate damage types for a flash bang grenade

looking further it might be more appropriate to have Flash Bang Sound as the damage types rather than pain
Sound grants the same stun effect and more accurately describes what a flash bang would do.
pain appears to be an effect that stuns by causing painful sensations
sound is the primary stunning effect of a flash bang...

deafened
blinded
and
stunned

(pg190 t509)