Patent of Nobility Card (where are you?)

[Adam Dray]

I got my patents for my forum membership and upgrade:

Baron Rech/Lanth SPIN 2112
Baroness Rech/Lanth SPIN 2112
Marquis Rech/Lanth SPIN 2112

Is it typical to get Baron AND Baroness? Is that for my wife? What's up with that?

Apparently I share Marquis Rech with user Tanuki. I wouldn't think that an unimportant mudball like Rech would warrant two Marquises, so either we're from different periods or one of us is an imposter. (Him, not me! )

 

[Chuck Anumia]

More Titles *Grins*

21 people have reported in. Some have multiple cards. Three of Bloo's cards and both of Original_Carl's cards are in question. Of the 29 other cards (and not counting TAS memberships) we have...

• 1 Duke
• 1 Viscount
• 1 Count
• 19 Knights
• 7 Undeclared (assumed Knights)

I would like to see the revised list please
Also...This just in: (Received in the mail today)

A Gift from the Emperor!
You are hereby awarded an Imperial Patent of Nobility consistent with your social standing in the Imperium. The attached card formalizes your status.
Serve the Empire well!

Count of Palique
(Spin) 3029 Palique A511965-E.
So then now I am:

Count Chuck Anumia
Count of Nicosia (OE) 0138 Nicosia A56667A-C

Count of the Solomani Rim
(Solo) 0528 Kidashi A557A69-E

Count of Menorb
(Spin) 1803 Menorb C652998-7

Count of Palique
(Spin) 3029 Palique A511965-E
http://travellermap.com/world?sector=spin&hex=3029

Viscount Edenelt
(Spin) 2733 Edenelt A5638BD-B

Marquis Piram
(Dene) 2116 Piram E311777-7

Knight of Deneb
(Spin) 3029 Palique A511965-E

Sir Chuck Anumia
(Troj) 2902 Bleak C9C6225-9

 

[Highorbit_drifter]

Yeah, and actually we cannot really define much of anything either. The relationship between the Imperium and the worlds has always been poorly defined. Yes, they discuss each government type, but never touch on how 3I interacts with each of the government types. A couple might be clear, but many are vague.

I really expected GT:Nobles to clear that up with a page on communications and authority, but no such luck.

Actually no - I've only got GURPS Traveller in front of me but page 68 gives a clear definition.

..(the 3I) can be best thought of as a form of feudal confederation... (member worlds) agree to pay taxes and obey a few fundamental laws... the Imperium agrees to ... protect interstellar trade, encourage travel and commerce and arbitrate diplomatic relations... individual worlds are left to their own devices as long as they acknowldge the power of the Imperium to rule the space between the stars

That does not seem like any sort of leap from what I accepted under Classic or Mega. Having Imperial Nobles rule worlds as Imperial Nobles seems to be a leap.

 

[Adam Dray]

That does not seem like any sort of leap from what I accepted under Classic or Mega. Having Imperial Nobles rule worlds as Imperial Nobles seems to be a leap.

Ruling the space between the stars includes control over interstellar commerce and all space travel. That quickly could become, in isolated areas or under abuse by nobility, leverage on worlds to act a certain way or suffer from embargoes and tariffs.

 

[savage]

Actually no - I've only got GURPS Traveller in front of me but page 68 gives a clear definition.

That does not seem like any sort of leap from what I accepted under Classic or Mega. Having Imperial Nobles rule worlds as Imperial Nobles seems to be a leap.

I consider that to be a wave of the hand, "ref go figure it out." An interstellar government like the 3I will have policies and expectations with each of the government types. Basic Sophont rights are just the tip of the political nightmares that could come from a completely hands off approach.

An entire sourcebook could be dedicated to the 3I and its interaction with all of the various governments. I believe BITS did "101 Governments". That might be a good starting point.

 

[nathanbibb]

I was surprised to be awarded a patent of nobility with my CT CD-ROM. It included:

A Gift From The Emperor
As a supplement to you order, the Emperor has ordered the inclusion of:

two Traveller5 six-sided dice
a Cr25 coin from the Imperial Treasury, and
a Patent of Nobility Knighthood associated with a world within the Imperium​

Knight of Deneb
Spin 0534 Karin A767768-C

 

[rancke]

Ruling the space between the stars includes control over interstellar commerce and all space travel. That quickly could become, in isolated areas or under abuse by nobility, leverage on worlds to act a certain way or suffer from embargoes and tariffs.

No one is saying any different. It would be strange indeed if some Imperial nobles hadn't taken advantage of their positions to feather their own nests. But highorbit_drifter wrote "Having Imperial Nobles rule worlds as Imperial Nobles seems to be a leap" (emphasis mine).

Imperial nobles that rule worlds go back to the Classic Era. But they don't rule their worlds as Imperial nobles. Well, Leonard of Aramis may; the situation can be interpreted either way. But Leonard's right to rule his barony of Lewis is based on the fact that he owns the place. The Emperor could strip him of his title and appoint someone else Baron of Lewis, but Leonard would still be the guy who owned the place. And Duchess Delphine of Mora (the Duchy) is duchess because she is the hereditary Matriarch of Mora (System), not Matriarch of Mora because she is Duchess of Mora. And Duke Norris of Regina (Duchy) is also Marquis of Regina (System), but he has no say whatsoever in how Regina System is run. (No official say, anyway).

So, yes, suddenly giving Imperial nobles governmental authority over member worlds in part or in whole is a radical CHANGE from previously published material.


Hans

 

[Highorbit_drifter]

I consider that to be a wave of the hand, "ref go figure it out." An interstellar government like the 3I will have policies and expectations with each of the government types. Basic Sophont rights are just the tip of the political nightmares that could come from a completely hands off approach.

An entire sourcebook could be dedicated to the 3I and its interaction with all of the various governments. I believe BITS did "101 Governments". That might be a good starting point.

Not to beat a dead horse, but "individual worlds are left to their own devices" seems pretty straight forward. For example, outside of chattel slavery and maybe genocide there are no Basic Sophont rights under Imperial law. Many adventures depend on this hands off approach, allowing each world to be its own setting, and to me is a strength of the setting.

We seem to be at odds on this, and each of us is free to interpret the 3I as we will. But to have the official setting change is big. I have to depend on others as I don't yet have a copy of T5, so I might be completely wrong.

Hans understands my meaning exactly. In a setting of thousands of worlds I"m sure there are exceptions but overall the Imperium does not rule worlds directly. Or did not.

On an unrelated note - but keeping with the thread - why the dearth of nobility from the Core? As a knight from a backwater like Lia (Cadion/Core 0537) I'm feeling like I'm out in the wilderness, with no Counts or Barons or other High Muckity Mucks anywhere nearby.

 

[whulorigan]

Not to beat a dead horse, but "individual worlds are left to their own devices" seems pretty straight forward. For example, outside of chattel slavery and maybe genocide there are no Basic Sophont rights under Imperial law. Many adventures depend on this hands off approach, allowing each world to be its own setting, and to me is a strength of the setting.
.
.
.

In a setting of thousands of worlds I"m sure there are exceptions but overall the Imperium does not rule worlds directly. Or did not.

From the Warrant of Restoration of the Imperium (Cleon I)
(T4 Milieu:0, p. 83):

Article I-Imperial Governance, Membership, Citizenship:
The lmperium shall exercise no direct governance over any member world. Instead, the purpose of the lmperium shall be to provide for the defense of all of the member worlds as a group, and to bring the rule of law to the spaces between worlds. No interference with local law or custom is contemplated, except where such local law or custom is in conflict with Imperial law.

Any world may, through a recognized representative, proclaim allegiance to the lmperium, and in so doing, such world shall become a member of the lmperium, equal in status to all other members of the lmperium. Member worlds shall govern themselves as they see proper, provided that such government does not violate Imperial laws.

The lmperium reserves to itself the power to create as it sees fit governmental entities superior to the member worlds but subordinate to the lmperium. This shall include the power to abolish said entities as the lmperium sees fit. The lmperium reserves to itself the power to create as it sees fit bureaus and agencies to carry out and enforce the Imperial will. This shall Include the power to abolish said bureaus and agencies as the lmperium sees fit.

The lmperium considers as citizens any living recognized sentient creature native to or naturalized by a member world of the lmperium, or any living recognized sentient creature swearing fealty to the lmperium directly. No immunity, protection, right, or privilege granted by the lmperium to a citizen of the lmperium may be abridged or denied by any member world.

Also, from MgT: Spinward Marches, p.18:

High Law also specifically prohibits certain activities and limits others. Some acts are considered to be major crimes wherever they are committed. Piracy, rape, murder and treason against the Imperium are all examples of Imperial felonies. Even where a world government has jurisdiction but does not prohibit these acts, local law enforcement is required to assist Ministry of Justice personnel in apprehending the perpetrators.

High Law does not supersede local law, however. If an act is prohibited under local law but not High Law, it is still a crime. Moreover, someone convicted of a crime on one Imperial Member world is a convicted criminal everywhere, even in places where the act is not an offence. That said, some local crimes are considered to be irrelevant in most other places. For example, while wearing green on Twoday may be a serious offence on one world, a conviction for this offence carries no real weight on worlds where the act is not prohibited.

 

[whulorigan]

Concerning T5 Noble Patent Cards:

On an unrelated note - but keeping with the thread - why the dearth of nobility from the Core? As a knight from a backwater like Lia (Cadion/Core 0537) I'm feeling like I'm out in the wilderness, with no Counts or Barons or other High Muckity Mucks anywhere nearby.

1) Note that every Knighthood in the Order of the Iridium Throne is associated with a world in Core Sector.

2) Many of the Noble Cards were given to T5 Kickstarter Backers, and some of the various support-levels had "A Noble Patent for a world in the Spinward Marches" as the specific benefit. Also, the various Kickstarter-backers who had a nobility of any kind (Spinward Marches or Imperium-general) were allowed to "request" worlds at the time T5 was ready to ship. So part of the bias may reflect the preferences of the people who were Kickstarter-participants.​

 

[Hovtej]

Hi Neighbor!

On an unrelated note - but keeping with the thread - why the dearth of nobility from the Core? As a knight from a backwater like Lia (Cadion/Core 0537) I'm feeling like I'm out in the wilderness, with no Counts or Barons or other High Muckity Mucks anywhere nearby.

Hi Neighbor! While not one of the Highest Muckity Mucks I do hold a couple of Marquisates in the Core: Shirg and Sagaku. Shirg is not that far from Lia.

 

[savage]

Not to beat a dead horse, but "individual worlds are left to their own devices" seems pretty straight forward.

I'm certainly not in favor of cruelty to animals any more than imposing new regulations on refs of the "I love CT as-is" crowd. Having created MTU, I have tossed several books aside warning players not to bother with them. Providing interesting background options in gaming is the reason for having a forum, new products and can make for an enormous amount of political intrigue for gamers.

I've seen some pretty bad Sourcebooks and adventures because they use cliche' problems focused at high school gamers and miss out on good ol' adult political intrigue.

 

[Highorbit_drifter]

Is it typical to get Baron AND Baroness? Is that for my wife? What's up with that?
)

Probably your True Daughter/Sister Clone, ala Norris and his offspring Seldrian, perhaps the homeliest Duchess in Charted Space.

 

[Highorbit_drifter]

From the Warrant of Restoration of the Imperium (Cleon I)
(T4 Milieu:0, p. 83):

Also, from MgT: Spinward Marches, p.18:

Now the first I knew about and always interpreted that as allowing the creation of things like the DoJ or various intelligence services. The second I don't think I've seen - thank you for pointing that out.

 

[Highorbit_drifter]

I'm certainly not in favor of cruelty to animals any more than imposing new regulations on refs of the "I love CT as-is" crowd. Having created MTU, I have tossed several books aside warning players not to bother with them. Providing interesting background options in gaming is the reason for having a forum, new products and can make for an enormous amount of political intrigue for gamers.

I've seen some pretty bad Sourcebooks and adventures because they use cliche' problems focused at high school gamers and miss out on good ol' adult political intrigue.

For our own TUs anything goes - from a Star Trek-ish Federation to no interstellar government at all. As long as you can justify it to your players and it looks good to you as a GM. I'm just concerned with the OTU for current and future authors and releases.

As you say, there are plenty of Sourcebooks or other elements that are just plain bad. I never thought of it as aiming towards a high school audience but that sounds right. That is, for the ones aren't just plain old bad.

 

[Highorbit_drifter]

Hi Neighbor! While not one of the Highest Muckity Mucks I do hold a couple of Marquisates in the Core: Shirg and Sagaku. Shirg is not that far from Lia.

Howdy Neighbor! Or should I say, Greetings, Lord of Shirg. I had planned to send you a case of our noteworthy dappleberry wine, but considering the efficiency of the Lia economy most dappleberry vintners were laid off. The stock we already had on hand was stolen, and in any case the last batch to hit the market apparently blinded a large number of hobos.

 

[Dagrill]

2) Many of the Noble Cards were given to T5 Kickstarter Backers, and some of the various support-levels had "A Noble Patent for a world in the Spinward Marches" as the specific benefit. Also, the various Kickstarter-backers who had a nobility of any kind (Spinward Marches or Imperium-general) were allowed to "request" worlds at the time T5 was ready to ship. So part of the bias may reflect the preferences of the people who were Kickstarter-participants.[/INDENT]

I certainly requested the world I received my Knighthood for as part of Kickstarter, but the Vilis sub-sector was my favourite, my Viscount card came with an order and I got the Marquis when I upgraded my Moot sub.

I'm guessing that Marc got a job lot of cards, with some duplicates.

Regards

David

 

[Kaeto]

I just requested my nobility rank and let the world be random as part of my kickstarter.

 

[Chuck Anumia]

Another Count Patent

I would like to see the revised list please
Also...This just in: (Received in the mail today)

A Gift from the Emperor!
You are hereby awarded an Imperial Patent of Nobility consistent with your social standing in the Imperium. The attached card formalizes your status.
Serve the Empire well!

Count of Palique
(Spin) 3029 Palique A511965-E.
So then now I am:

Count Chuck Anumia
Count of Nicosia (OE) 0138 Nicosia A56667A-C

Count of the Solomani Rim
(Solo) 0528 Kidashi A557A69-E

Count of Menorb
(Spin) 1803 Menorb C652998-7

Count of Palique
(Spin) 3029 Palique A511965-E
http://travellermap.com/world?sector=spin&hex=3029

Viscount Edenelt
(Spin) 2733 Edenelt A5638BD-B

Marquis Piram
(Dene) 2116 Piram E311777-7

Knight of Deneb
(Spin) 3029 Palique A511965-E

Sir Chuck Anumia
(Troj) 2902 Bleak C9C6225-9

Now I can add Count Aramanx
(Spin) 3005 Aramanx B657974-7

And
Knight of Deneb
(Spin) 3005 Aramanx B657974-7

 

[Adam Dray]

Today I got patents for:

Count Junidy
SPIN 3202 Junidy B434ABD-B

Knight of Deneb
SPIN 3202 Junidy B434ABD-B

I'm not sure why I got those patents, but I'm happy about them!