Patent of Nobility Card (where are you?)

[Drakon]

Please, don't take issue. As I understand it. A patent card is part of the benefits to COTI backers, and various other products.

I think for "services rendered" Marc may be awarding better patent cards. IMO.

Perhaps "issue" was too strong a word, I believe we have a difference of viewpoint. And obviously their Graces, the known Archdukes, that we have online have all contributed greatly to Traveller, this site, and FFE. No one should begrudge their acknowledgement or the elevation that they have earned.

At present, the patents are not for sale. They are included in purchases from FFE and the Kickstarter project, but the cards themselves are not even a reason for the purchase. I bought the T5 book, and the Baroness purchased the 6 disks as my birthday present. While it was hoped there would be an additional patent, the patent was not what was purchased.

Nobody sold us an incomplete product. These fun little cards were included with other purchases. While the full noble rule set is not completed yet, that will grow with time. Marc has a full plate at present. Personally I would hate to say or do anything to make him regret making these cards. Besides maybe some of us here can help flesh out what it means to be a T5 noble.

Now, when Marc does decide to sell patents, there are a couple I would like to discuss :devil:

 

[ken at sunrise]

Nobody sold us an incomplete product. These fun little cards were included with other purchases. While the full noble rule set is not completed yet, that will grow with time. Marc has a full plate at present. Personally I would hate to say or do anything to make him regret making these cards. Besides maybe some of us here can help flesh out what it means to be a T5 noble.

Now, when Marc does decide to sell patents, there are a couple I would like to discuss :devil:

For me I'm absolutely thrilled with the Patents that I've been awarded. They've made the game more personal for me.

Even without the Patents this is still a complete game. No one promised them nor was there a guarantee of any sort. Simply the Kickstarter had minimum rewards with requests for certain worlds.

As far as I'm concerned these were gifts and I'm very pleased. I wouldn't mind if they were never offered for sale but sure, I understand if they are. But either way I hope the duplicates are rare; like I said for me these make the game more personal, more interesting, gives me reason to connect with more players, etc... Duplicates takes a little away from it I think. I'm developing a full character background (NPC) to go with the patents that ends up being a major factor in my campaign. So thank you Marc for your generosity and work; also thank you guys (Aramis, Dom, inexorabletash and many others) for your support too.

 

[savage]

At present, the patents are not for sale.
Nobody sold us an incomplete product. These fun little cards were included with other purchases. While the full noble rule set is not completed yet, that will grow with time.
Now, when Marc does decide to sell patents, there are a couple I would like to discuss :devil:

Yes. I generally agree. I think they should be a product line or at least a bit formal. If you're buying a fake patent it should be noted...etc.

There is a lot of untapped potential in post-kickstarter patents.

 

[Kaeto]

I've been re reading this thread and ran across this:

That was actually debated in the T5 forums.
To the best of my understanding, the RAW imply that the FIRST HEX of the 16 is on the Viscount's Fief-Mainworld, the rest are scattered thru the subsector on any worlds that merit a viscount (including both the Fief Mainworld and any other Pre-Hi Trade Class worlds).

If your world is the only Pre-Hi world in the subsector, then all the hexes will be on that world. Otherwise, they may be scattered about.

If that is the case then my Viscount fief is scattered across five worlds.

Asii http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Asii_(world)
C435894-7
Aiaiyal http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Aiaiyal_(world)
A572845-C
Iash http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Iash_(world)
D203889-8
A'a'suni http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/A'a'suni_(world)
C5468AD-5
Iinir http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Iinir_(world)
A557885-C

How would my fief be allocated across these worlds?
Also is the world my Knighthood is from my homeworld or is it the one my TAS membership was issued from?

 

[Drakon]

Also is the world my Knighthood is from my homeworld or is it the one my TAS membership was issued from?

It is however you want to play it.

Personally I am taking Slath as my homeworld, figuring my TAS membership I picked up on my many travels around the galaxy. Home town boy makes good

 

[whulorigan]

I've been re reading this thread and ran across this:

That was actually debated in the T5 forums.
To the best of my understanding, the RAW imply that the FIRST HEX of the 16 is on the Viscount's Fief-Mainworld, the rest are scattered thru the subsector on any worlds that merit a viscount (including both the Fief Mainworld and any other Pre-Hi Trade Class worlds).

If your world is the only Pre-Hi world in the subsector, then all the hexes will be on that world. Otherwise, they may be scattered about.

If that is the case then my Viscount fief is scattered across five worlds.

Asii http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Asii_%28world%29
Aiaiyal http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Aiaiyal_(world)
Iash http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Iash_(world)
A'a'suni http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/A'a'suni_(world)
Iinir http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Iinir_(world)

How would my fief be allocated across these worlds?

Well, your Viscount-fief could be scattered across as many as those five worlds, or across four of them, or only two, etc. The text says the hexes are allocated randomly. But there is no indication as to how they are to be randomly determined (other than GM fiat, and that the first hex in any particular grant is on the character's homeworld). I suppose one could debate whether or not in this particular context, the word "homeworld" or "fief/grant-world" is more appropriate, since a character's homeworld and fiefworld are not necessarily the same.

Also is the world my Knighthood is from my homeworld or is it the one my TAS membership was issued from?

Good question. According to the RAW: "The first hex in any grant is on the Noble's homeworld . . . ". Since a Knight has only a single mainworld hex, presumably all knighthoods are associated with a character's homeworld. But yet many T5 Cards have been issued with multiple knighthoods on different worlds. So perhaps this rule is somewhat relaxed for certain knighthoods (or at least for the ones as regards the T5 Noble Cards)?

I take it the TAS Card is simply where your membership in the society was registered. Which I would guess would normally be a character's homeworld, but would not necessarily have to be.

So at a guess, I would say choose which one you want to be your homeworld and run with it.

 

[Kaeto]

I guess I'll go with my Knighthood world as my homeworld.

And have 4 of my 16 Viscountery fief hexes placed 1 on each of the other worlds and have the remaining 12 hexes on Aiaiyal (A572845-C). It has 1,848 RU so my taxes there should enable me to live appropriately. I'll have vacation homes on Asii and Iinir as both are detailed in the wiki as tourist spots (which also helps explain how Asii can survive with negative RU).
But Iash is another story. It's detailed as a failed mining venture with a RU of negative 1,176.
A'a'suni is not s nice place with a Charismatic Dictator govt, and Paramilitary law enforcement running the place. But at least it has a scout base to keep an eye on the Neo-Nazis, and ensure that they don't oppress the native race the Athar too much. they also have a lousy economy with Negative 420 RU.

 

[Dagrill]

I guess I'll go with my Knighthood world as my homeworld. a lousy economy with Negative 420 RU.

Actually I think the Titles are given out wherever the Emperor has some land to give away, which means you are likely to get land on a negative RU world as they are selling it to the Emperor to pay for their loans.

I've got a Knight of Deneb for Skull and Order of Starship and Crown for Garda-Vils, so I've decided I'm from Garda-Vils (or possibly Vilis).

Regards

David

 

[whulorigan]

David, We have the same job. I am also a Marquis of Skull, SPIN 2420 C4237C7-9

I wonder how duplicates could even exist?

[FONT=arial,helvetica]I asked Marc about duplicate titles, here is his response:[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica]

There is the possibility of more than one person having the same nobility.

Perhaps you are from different era?
Perhaps the Emperor has given you each a Viscounty in hopes that one of you will raise the quality of the world and be elevated to Count?
Perhaps one is a forgery?
Perhaps this signifies eternal enmity between you and him?

[/FONT]

Was just thinking about this, and here is some additional food for thought from the T5 Core Rules Errata/Clarification:

T5 Core Rules Errata/Clarification, p.436:

The nobles of a given world are noted in a string; for example, Regina’s nobility are “BcCeF”, noting that Regina has a single Duke (F), a single Viscount (e), a single Baron (C), a single Baronet (c) and a single Knight (B). The titles of the lower ranking nobles may or may not be “of Regina”, but could be of world locations within their land grants.

 

[Dagrill]

Was just thinking about this, and here is some additional food for thought from the T5 Core Rules Errata/Clarification:

Hmm, I thought if there was an f, there were two E's, four e's, eight D's etc?

Regards

David

 

[whulorigan]

Hmm, I thought if there was an f, there were two E's, four e's, eight D's etc?

Presuming of course the the old division of High/Rank/Honor Nobles still exists in T5, I would guess that the "Nobility String" refers specifically to High Nobles (or perhaps includes some Rank Nobles for lower ranks). Other Rank Nobles and all Honor/Ceremonial Nobles would not necessarily be included in the string, I would guess.

Certainly there should be the possibility of more than one Knight per world (even if just an honor-title), since Mark Miller already specifically mentioned in the T5 Kickstarter concerning the Noble Patent Cards that ". . . Every Noble should also have an associated Knighthood" (or something to that effect - I am paraphrasing from memory). Both of the Peer-title Noble Cards that I currently have included a separate Knighthood card on the same world as well. That would seem to imply that for each of the listed Nobles for Regina above, they would each have a Regina Knighthood (though not necessarily the Knighthood noted in the Noble-string).

It would also make the awarding of a Knighthood as an Imperial Honor somewhat difficult if there could only be one per world.

 

[savage]

Was just thinking about this, and here is some additional food for thought from the T5 Core Rules Errata/Clarification:

Quote:
T5 Core Rules Errata/Clarification, p.436:

The nobles of a given world are noted in a string; for example, Regina’s nobility are “BcCeF”, noting that Regina has a single Duke (F), a single Viscount (e), a single Baron (C), a single Baronet (c) and a single Knight (B). The titles of the lower ranking nobles may or may not be “of Regina”, but could be of world locations within their land grants.

Seems a bit dry to me. Worlds like Regina, Deneb, Kaasu, Vland, Terra, Capital... Could have several barons, counts and 6 plus knights.

 

[rancke]

Seems a bit dry to me. Worlds like Regina, Deneb, Kaasu, Vland, Terra, Capital... Could have several barons, counts and 6 plus knights.

I think the old pre-T5 version was perfectly fine and that there was no good reason to change it.

Of course, I'm more than a little hazy about just how the T5 version will actually work out.


Hans

 

[savage]

I think the old pre-T5 version was perfectly fine and that there was no good reason to change it.

Of course, I'm more than a little hazy about just how the T5 version will actually work out.


Hans

That's a fine point Hans.
I'm "hazy" on it too. I suppose I'm saying "one way or the other". Either fill a world with a handful of nobles or the old CT nobility. It's really hard to have a 1-2 nobles at a party. There are advantages to the T5+ way. Unless, they specify that 3 Imperial appointed nobles are on the world and the rest are appointed knights by the highest authority. Then a Duke could give out nobility on his world. Pretty cool.

 

[Hovtej]

Marastan

I just received an additional holding on Marastan in the Spinward Marches as a Knight of Deneb, my second elevation to that order. I share representation of the Emperor on that world with His Grace Aramis in his role as Baron Marastan. Marastan is an Imperial Reserve; reading descriptions, I'll need to add a US Forest Service type "Smokey the Bear" hat to my wardrobe. This should entail a different but interesting set of duties.

 

[Thoom]

Patent of Nobility are cool but I sure hope it doesn't take too much time away from working on the actual game, like the long overdue errata update, adventures, exemples, equipment list, etc.

 

[DonM]

Patent of Nobility are cool but I sure hope it doesn't take too much time away from working on the actual game, like the long overdue errata update, adventures, exemples, equipment list, etc.

Trust me, it doesn't.

What did hurt was Marc being ill, but he has recovered and is getting back into the swing of things.

And he's in the middle of personal combat, he promised me during our call on Friday.

 

[Thoom]

Great! Thanks for the info Don. I'm glad to hear it.

 

[rancke]

I'm "hazy" on it too. I suppose I'm saying "one way or the other". Either fill a world with a handful of nobles or the old CT nobility. It's really hard to have a 1-2 nobles at a party. There are advantages to the T5+ way. Unless, they specify that 3 Imperial appointed nobles are on the world and the rest are appointed knights by the highest authority. Then a Duke could give out nobility on his world. Pretty cool.

A duke who was also the planetary ruler could give out nobility on his world, but I don't think they would be Imperial nobles.

That's one of the biggest problems I have with the New Universe Order (as dimly percieved reflected in the T5 rules). In the Imperium I know, it often wouldn't be the duke's world, and when it was, it wouldn't be his as a part of his Imperial nobility but as the planetary ruler.

Most of the worlds in the Imperium isn't the Emperor's to hand out as fiefs. What do you think "full internal autonomy" actually implies? Definitely not a noble overlord with the authority to make laws.

Most of the government forms don't accomodate a direct noble ruler who is a vassal of a higher Imperial noble. Only captive governments would fit. Even dictators don't work, because a noble with an overlord would also be a captive government.


Hans

 

[savage]

...What do you think "full internal autonomy" actually implies? Definitely not a noble overlord with the authority to make laws.
Hans

Yeah, and actually we cannot really define much of anything either. The relationship between the Imperium and the worlds has always been poorly defined. Yes, they discuss each government type, but never touch on how 3I interacts with each of the government types. A couple might be clear, but many are vague.

I really expected GT:Nobles to clear that up with a page on communications and authority, but no such luck.