OTU is 3000 years in the future

[Badenov]

The PGMP14 and the FGMP 15 feature gravitic recoil reduction. In CT and other versions they could be used without battledress, there is even a CT adventure where Imperial spooks hide them under loose clothing and severely spoil the evening of some street thugs, the Argon Gambit...


"If the party persists in their investigation, they will be ambushed by the thugs listed above. All of the thugs are this time armed with auto pistols, and will have surprise. After the first round of gunfire, however, a bright flash of light will literally burn them from behind. The two men who burned them will show themselves briefly to check the bodies, and then leave. These unknown protectors are armed with FGMP-15s.
Referee's Note: The FGMP-15 is a Fusion Gun, Man-Portable, Tech Level 15; the weapon is described in Book 5, Mercenary. Its function and operation are not necessary to this adventure. The players should be informed, however, that the weapon is a fabulously expensive, extremely powerful energy weapon virtually unavailable outside of Imperial service.
Irrelevant ideas such as snatching the FGMP-15 from the protectors, or following them, should be discouraged and should not be successful."

So, this is more what I'm asking about. Not so much that players can use it, but it exists in-universe and is a player-scale weapon rather than a squad support weapon.

That being said, I did feel a lack of progression in the slug thrower range, even with the lasers supremacy in TL9 and the ACR necessity mother of invention with reflec ending the laser party.

I am a big supporter of the fan supplement Traveller plus book 9 armory with armor and gun design, and cribbed a few easy upgrades from it.

hmm more like different aesthetics.

Now the TL progression is sort of wonky, TL0 to TL5 are different worlds of capability but TL10 to TL15 isn’t.

GURPS compressed them but doesn’t seem to have taken hold. Their ultra tech is more what you’re looking for.

I would imagine part of that is not having overpowered players or NPCs. This is an adventure biome were trying to run here after all, and phasers bought in an Efate back room might be a bit much.

MgT1 CSC had some ultra stuff, don’t know how much made it to MgT2 CSC

So, I'm imagining like a blazer from John Steakley's armor. But an FGMP-15 should have reasonably similar stats.

But the issue is that the 1911 still solves the same problem. And it's not a fundamentally hard problem.

But no, because body armor / protective clothing comes a long way, too. Fairly lightweight clothing will have protective bits built-in and something like a TL14 Tailored Vacc Suit offers reasonably substantial protection at nearly zero impact to casually walking around.

The problems needing to be solved are safety, ergonomics, and effectiveness.

One thing missing from Traveller, for example, is "bound weapons". Weapons bound to a person in some, ideally infallible way. Helps keep your weapon out of the hands of others, and, well, anyone.

Biometric IDs that prevent stolen weapons from working are current plans, things like this are certainly in place in the future.

Ergonomics consist of handiness, recoil, portability, etc. A modern "Pocket 9mm" is spectacularly practical in, uh, "social" situations. Where they fall down mostly is siting. As much as someone might want to bolt a red dot on one of those, the "pocketability" of them kind of flies out the window. And if you're going to holster carry, may as well pick something a little bit bigger. You can see maybe a high tech version with a built in optical "red dot" site that doesn't actually change the profile of the pistol. But, in the end, its still a 9mm pistol.

But capacity, reliability, effectiveness -- yea, a Pocket 9 with 8 rounds -- pretty handy.

Effectiveness? Yea, doesn't take much. And there's definitely a top of the bell curve of optimal performance.

This is what I expect to change at high TL. I expect the bell curve to keep moving the way it did at previous TLs.

Most people are not armored. Most folks don't want something that going to over penetrate. Heck, to be honest, most folks just want something STOPS the attacking, they don't want to KILL the attacker. So, maybe a hi tech paralysis field projector! Wireless taser maybe?

Ye Olde "Set phasers on Stun" kind of thing.

Now this is the sort of paradigm shift that's missing.

 

[whartung]

But no, because body armor / protective clothing comes a long way, too.

Unless the system is completely passive, and the material no less breathable than a nice cotton shirt, people won't wear it.

Maybe its a personal shield generator, or something else.

But the other criteria is simply, unless pressured as a social norm, folks aren't going to wear it because they don't feel comfortable wearing it.

"Honey, don't forget your armored wind breaker today! We don't want to get killed." Which brings on questions like "why am I living in a society where I need to routinely wear armor."

Then, of course, there's the "only bad guys and good guys wear armor". But we also know that, as a general rule, Bad Guys are not the brightest bulbs in the deck.

Finally, you'll need something that works well both against armored and unarmored targets. That's where you're likely back to stun guns which just skip armor entirely.

I expect the bell curve to keep moving the way it did at previous TLs.

As the saying goes: "God created men, but Sam Colt made them equal"

The curve has not really changed in a long, long time. The magic today is bullet construction, and modern propellents. That's what makes the historically mundane 9mm much more effective today as a cartridge, thus empowering something like the modern small frame pistols. But even before that, they were not to be ignored. Remember, President Reagan was almost killed with a .22 out of a snub nose revolver.

As also mentioned elsewhere, no gunshot is safe.

 

[Condottiere]

Fusion weapon systems being rather free with radiation, being somewhat unsuitable for most urban scenarios.

Plasma pistols seem more manageable, and powerful, enough.

 

[Badenov]

Unless the system is completely passive, and the material no less breathable than a nice cotton shirt, people won't wear it.

Maybe its a personal shield generator, or something else.

But the other criteria is simply, unless pressured as a social norm, folks aren't going to wear it because they don't feel comfortable wearing it.

"Honey, don't forget your armored wind breaker today! We don't want to get killed." Which brings on questions like "why am I living in a society where I need to routinely wear armor."

3500 years is a long time for habits to change. Another ice age, even a mini ice age, and people will be glad for another layer or two of de rigeur clothing. If I could wear something as slightly bulky as a windbreaker and not have to worry about the slings, arrows, and small caliber rounds of outrageous fortune, I would do so. Then again, how many people got and wore leather jackets because of Fonzie on Happy Days, just for the cool factor? And ironically, he and other bikers of the day wore the jacket because that's what was recommended as protection against road rash. So protection can be normalized.

Then, of course, there's the "only bad guys and good guys wear armor". But we also know that, as a general rule, Bad Guys are not the brightest bulbs in the deck.

In a universe where space piracy is a real threat (and how real is another very long discussion), people would at least own an armored vest or light jacket and keep it in luggage where it could be donned if needed. And ship's crew will wear it if the ship's owner requires it. It's like safety shoes but more comprehensive. Bonus points for health insurance not covering injuries if you're not wearing your safety vest.

Finally, you'll need something that works well both against armored and unarmored targets. That's where you're likely back to stun guns which just skip armor entirely.

Overpenetration is only as much of a problem as missing your target. Either case puts things behind the target at risk. But bulkheads are high TL spacecraft hull, not TL7 drywall.

As the saying goes: "God created men, but Sam Colt made them equal"

The curve has not really changed in a long, long time. The magic today is bullet construction, and modern propellents. That's what makes the historically mundane 9mm much more effective today as a cartridge, thus empowering something like the modern small frame pistols. But even before that, they were not to be ignored. Remember, President Reagan was almost killed with a .22 out of a snub nose revolver.

I think what you're describing is exactly the curve changing due to bullet construction. As far as Reagan almost being killed by a .22, Brady got hurt far worse than Reagan and survived, and Reagan was ancient and survived with no long term problems we could see..

As also mentioned elsewhere, no gunshot is safe.

100% agree. D20 to Yuma has an interesting mechanic for that which I haven't seen elsewhere. Any die which comes up on its max value lets you reroll it and add the new roll to the total damage. That would make players much more wary of those 2d3 nuisance weapons.

 

[jec10]

Where did the fusion weapons causing RAD issues first come in? It isn't something I recall being an issue for CT versions.

 

[Condottiere]

Wasn't that one of the differences between half baked plasma, and full blown hydrogen meltdown?

 

[mike wightman]

I

Where did the fusion weapons causing RAD issues first come in? It isn't something I recall being an issue for CT versions.

It first pops up in T4 IIRC and Mongoose maintains the silly idea.

According to CT the fusion gun is a plasma gun that keeps the bolt of plasma in the weapon and squeezes is magnetically/graviticsally so that it starts to undergo a fusion reaction. Thus the plasma/fusion bolt that leaves the weapon is more energetic than that from a simple plasma gun. Note the partial fusion is inside the weapon, there is nothing to maintain the fusion once it is outside.

 

[Rupert]

Most people are not armored. Most folks don't want something that going to over penetrate. Heck, to be honest, most folks just want something STOPS the attacking, they don't want to KILL the attacker. So, maybe a hi tech paralysis field projector! Wireless taser maybe?

Ye Olde "Set phasers on Stun" kind of thing.

The stunners in Bujold's Voskosigan stories fit the bill nicely. Small and portable, knock the target out with little side-effects other than the mother of all headaches later, and victims can be woken early with a drug (worse headache, though). Safe enough that hitting innocent bystanders isn't going to get you long prison sentences (it's probably some level of assault but not a serious crime if firing was justifiable in most jurisdictions). Also, silent and invisible beams that don't fry electronics, so well-suited to covert work and use in spaceships. They are almost too good.

 

[Rupert]

Fusion weapon systems being rather free with radiation, being somewhat unsuitable for most urban scenarios.

Only in Mongoose Traveller.

It first pops up in T4 IIRC and Mongoose maintains the silly idea.

According to CT the fusion gun is a plasma gun that keeps the bolt of plasma in the weapon and squeezes is magnetically/graviticsally so that it starts to undergo a fusion reaction. Thus the plasma/fusion bolt that leaves the weapon is more energetic than that from a simple plasma gun. Note the partial fusion is inside the weapon, there is nothing to maintain the fusion once it is outside.

I can't find any reference to this in T4 - Emperor's Arsenal makes no mention of fusion weapons and nor does Central Supply Catalog. FF&S says nothing of fusion weapons causing radiation.

That doesn't mean it's not in there somewhere, mind - I didn't go through everything.

The idea doesn't come from T20, either - it says nothing about radiation from fusion weapons, and for spaceship weapons meson guns, particle accelerators and nukes are noted to cause radiation damage, fusion guns have no such notation.

Wherever it came from, it's dumb. You want radiation burns from your fusion gun, go play Space Opera.

 

[Rupert]

I think what you're describing is exactly the curve changing due to bullet construction. As far as Reagan almost being killed by a .22, Brady got hurt far worse than Reagan and survived, and Reagan was ancient and survived with no long term problems we could see..

Lincoln was killed by a gun so low-powered that at a range of about four feet the bullet didn't manage to exit Lincoln's head (despite being slow enough that it didn't deform or break up). Bullet placement has always been the key, not mere power.

 

[coliver988]

and re: Traveller Plus. I have the PDF but unless an admin allows it, the notes in it say no distribution. But the contact

Design………………………….....................Ed Messina (ed@crucible.cc)

This document contains house rules for Traveller. It’s formatted as an affectionate
and respectful tribute to a game we’ve played and enjoyed for decades. No copyright
challenge is intended by using this format. This document is free to anyone who
wishes to download it and may not be redistributed without permission.
Before using these rules, you must own a copy of the original Traveller rules.
Copies of Traveller are available for purchase on the World Wide Web at
www.farfuture.net

 

[mike wightman]

I can't find any reference to this in T4 - Emperor's Arsenal makes no mention of fusion weapons and nor does Central Supply Catalog. FF&S says nothing of fusion weapons causing radiation.

PCMP12 page 83 is likely where it is extrapolated from by Mongoose authors...

"Expected side effects of the weapon are extreme recoil force, secondary radiation and flash burns from millisecond exposure to the plasma on launch, and possible environmental contamination.

The PCMP-12 is a fearsome weapon to fire. Anyone without electronic flash compensation or heavily tinted lenses will be temporarily blinded (D6 hours) on failing an average Endurance task. Flash burns will do one point of physical damage if there are any exposed body areas. It will also ignite flammable clothing, and melt synthetic clothing."

 

[Rupert]

PCMP12 page 83 is likely where it is extrapolated from by Mongoose authors...

"Expected side effects of the weapon are extreme recoil force, secondary radiation and flash burns from millisecond exposure to the plasma on launch, and possible environmental contamination.

In that context 'radiation burns' means 'sunburn', like you get from not being properly covered when using arc welders. Silly chooks.