One tenth of stars may support life
- Thread starter Father Fletch
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Father Fletch
SOC-12
Thrash, as usual right on the money. I always admire your scholarship. For me the concept of GHZ was totally new, and I felt that this forum would appreciate information of this nature. Upon rereading the article I can see how it sets up the perception that 10% of all the stars in our galaxy are capable of sustaining life, instead of the actual argument that ONLY 10% of the stars in our galaxy are in a zone that would permit life, all other factors excepted.
I quote
Ah well, we always knew that the Spinward Marches were where the action was at!
I quote
This does seem to say that all the stars in this zone meet these criteria, but only that, no other precursors.
Ah well, we always knew that the Spinward Marches were where the action was at!
Straybow
SOC-14 1K
The article cited in New Scientist is the news article in the first issue of Science this year. That news was a summation of something published in a journal more specific to the field, probably six months or more prior. That was itself apparently an interview with Lineweaver about the 2001 paper, conducted many months prior to publishing of that journal.
Sometimes news travels by roundabout means.
Sometimes news travels by roundabout means.
The Hinterworlds Rambler
SOC-14 5K
Absolutely, Lord Jame, 10% of all visible stars is a very large number, it was even a large number when they thought it was like 0.01% or something...
Assuming astrophysics is really spot on, the effect of Time Dilation of objects travelling near the speed of light, may cut into the desires of tourists seeking a trip to earth... its one thing to explore/be curious, but is a real psychological leap to take a trip and come back to everyone you know being long gone..
I would also be wary of visting aliens, and I base this solely on the fact that they have watched a lot of our old TV shows... they give a somewhat distorted view of the Politic Human, to say the least...
Assuming astrophysics is really spot on, the effect of Time Dilation of objects travelling near the speed of light, may cut into the desires of tourists seeking a trip to earth... its one thing to explore/be curious, but is a real psychological leap to take a trip and come back to everyone you know being long gone..
I would also be wary of visting aliens, and I base this solely on the fact that they have watched a lot of our old TV shows... they give a somewhat distorted view of the Politic Human, to say the least...
Also, this doesn't change the likelihood of alien civilization around us -- after all, we're in the GHZ -- just that it's unlikely there's much in close to the core or outside on the rim.
Does this drop the likelihood of finding life? Sure. Does it drop the likelihood of finding life in a sphere of, say, 1000 LY? Not at all.
Does this drop the likelihood of finding life? Sure. Does it drop the likelihood of finding life in a sphere of, say, 1000 LY? Not at all.
The Hinterworlds Rambler
SOC-14 5K
Well, when you consider the balance of factors that led to the evolution of life, and the preservation thereof... The ozone layer, the van allen belt, the magnetic feild, the moon, the distance from the sun, etc. It certainly narrows the field a bit... life would be impossible (or extremly alien) if any of these factors were off by just a bit... then you have the social parameters of the Aliens themselves... Are they able to go to space? Are they able to reach near lightspeed, or perhaps beyond?
The thing I wonder about often is Carl Sagan's mode of classification of alien Cultures in "Cosmos". It suggests that every technological culture faces the day when Technology could destroy a given Culture/planet, through development of Nuclear weaponry... while it stands to reason, it is a very "human" Take on it... wether this is from Cold War attitudes, or simply having no other way to relate to an alien culture, is a matter of speculation....
After watching two episodes of "Bewitched" (one of which Sam turns Darren into a Donkey) and one of "Mr. Ed" (Do all "horses" talk?), I would certainly find Earth culture very confusing, to say nothing of "Anna Nicole", what?
The thing I wonder about often is Carl Sagan's mode of classification of alien Cultures in "Cosmos". It suggests that every technological culture faces the day when Technology could destroy a given Culture/planet, through development of Nuclear weaponry... while it stands to reason, it is a very "human" Take on it... wether this is from Cold War attitudes, or simply having no other way to relate to an alien culture, is a matter of speculation....
After watching two episodes of "Bewitched" (one of which Sam turns Darren into a Donkey) and one of "Mr. Ed" (Do all "horses" talk?), I would certainly find Earth culture very confusing, to say nothing of "Anna Nicole", what?
With all these factors required to make a shirt sleeve world for humans, finding a planet suitable (without massive terra forming efforts) would be nearly impossible.
Terraforming on a grandest scale may be the only method to spread humanity. Even then, terraforming is probably only going to accomplish some of what is necessary to make a planet habitable to a large population; the rest may come from adapting man to the planet (a seemingly much simplier task in comparison).
Terraforming on a grandest scale may be the only method to spread humanity. Even then, terraforming is probably only going to accomplish some of what is necessary to make a planet habitable to a large population; the rest may come from adapting man to the planet (a seemingly much simplier task in comparison).
Regardless, the odds of finding a world where we can live, breathe and eat stuff right off the tree is phenomenally miniscule, UNLESS there was one source for all the like life motelets that settled throughout the galaxy and we're just the local branch of a very big tree (I very much doubt this though). If life did indeed spring forth on this world without any outside seeding, then the odds of our biochemistry meshing with the life of another planet is really small, I think.
Pappy
Pappy
The Hinterworlds Rambler
SOC-14 5K
Well, consider the biodiversity on Earth alone, we have animals that fit the carbon model, yes, but then you got some deep sea stuff that runs on totally different chemistry... the Parameters of life are so broad that I think a lot of pretty wild permutations would be possible, but it's hard to conceptualize without the "human" factor getting into the mix...
consider the bizarrness of these organisms...
platypus... an egg laying mammaloid, oh, that is also very poisonous... and it has an electromagnetically sensitive bill... and webbed feet...
Anerobic Fungus and bacterium?
Lichens that can crush a 50 ton boulder over a few decades?
Arthropodic life with open Respiratory systems?
Land Crabs?
Whale Sharks?
Octopi with the smarts of a dog and nearly human functioning eyes?
Dolphins and other Cetaceans that can respond to a televised image?
Insects with behaviors such as Farming, and slavery (after a fashion)
Primates that can build spaceships and equipment to survive outside of thier natural environment? Yet other types that have 99.9% of our genetics (chimps and others) are still swinging in trees?
...so many unusual adaptations exist that it seems likely that eventually we will find life in some form... we ourselves have set the precedent for it... plus we're also talking about an unfathomable number of not only stars, but entire Galaxies out there, the word "impossible" becomes very subjective indeed... even if it was .0000000000000000001%, It would still be an astronomical number of earth like planets, literally... even if you threw a religious view into it, what's with all the other planets, God? (or Gods) if the Creator (or Creators) has the skills to strike the balance that we have here on Earth, an incredibly logical arrangement, where is the logic in only doing it once out of a hundred trillion gazillion times?
I wish I could find out now... Let's Go!
consider the bizarrness of these organisms...
platypus... an egg laying mammaloid, oh, that is also very poisonous... and it has an electromagnetically sensitive bill... and webbed feet...
Anerobic Fungus and bacterium?
Lichens that can crush a 50 ton boulder over a few decades?
Arthropodic life with open Respiratory systems?
Land Crabs?
Whale Sharks?
Octopi with the smarts of a dog and nearly human functioning eyes?
Dolphins and other Cetaceans that can respond to a televised image?
Insects with behaviors such as Farming, and slavery (after a fashion)
Primates that can build spaceships and equipment to survive outside of thier natural environment? Yet other types that have 99.9% of our genetics (chimps and others) are still swinging in trees?
...so many unusual adaptations exist that it seems likely that eventually we will find life in some form... we ourselves have set the precedent for it... plus we're also talking about an unfathomable number of not only stars, but entire Galaxies out there, the word "impossible" becomes very subjective indeed... even if it was .0000000000000000001%, It would still be an astronomical number of earth like planets, literally... even if you threw a religious view into it, what's with all the other planets, God? (or Gods) if the Creator (or Creators) has the skills to strike the balance that we have here on Earth, an incredibly logical arrangement, where is the logic in only doing it once out of a hundred trillion gazillion times?
I wish I could find out now... Let's Go!
True the diversity of life on our planet is staggering, but its still all the same DNA with the same molecular building blocks.
Golly gee whiz, I hope I'm real wrong, sure would be fun to find life elsewhere, but, for now, I think we're it. The lone bit of green stuff in a very large galaxy, but that sure leaves it wide open for us to explore and utilize doesn't it!
Just the same, that makes our burden to protect and defend the environment of our homeworld all the more important.
Keep the faith,
Pappy
Golly gee whiz, I hope I'm real wrong, sure would be fun to find life elsewhere, but, for now, I think we're it. The lone bit of green stuff in a very large galaxy, but that sure leaves it wide open for us to explore and utilize doesn't it!
Just the same, that makes our burden to protect and defend the environment of our homeworld all the more important.
Keep the faith,
Pappy
Point to ponder: What if we are the first? Someone has to be ... why not us?
The Hinterworlds Rambler
SOC-14 5K
Nope. Full of Aliens.
One could debate the "worthiness" of such a universal distinction for mankind... I hold up "Carrot Top" and "Keeanu Reeves" to illustrate my point (heh)
One could debate the "worthiness" of such a universal distinction for mankind... I hold up "Carrot Top" and "Keeanu Reeves" to illustrate my point (heh)
Remember, my dear Baron, that the pantheon of most cultures contain some sort of incarnation of evil, arrogance, and short-sightedness.
I just hope we do a whole lot of growing up before we're given any chance to influence our younger siblings.
Considering the age of the galaxy and the age of our little solar system and the age of our little race, there SHOULD be someone out there who has already done all this and much, much more, but where are they? They should've been here by now if they're coming.
Nope, we're either alone or the top of the chain, I'm afraid of either, and hope I'm very wrong and they're just hiding from us. Perhaps we're the butt of some great cosmic joke and when we get to Alpha Centauri, or Barnard's Star they're all gonna jump out and go "Bugga, Bugga!!!!"
Pappy
Nope, we're either alone or the top of the chain, I'm afraid of either, and hope I'm very wrong and they're just hiding from us. Perhaps we're the butt of some great cosmic joke and when we get to Alpha Centauri, or Barnard's Star they're all gonna jump out and go "Bugga, Bugga!!!!"
Pappy
