Nuclear Dampers vs Meson and Energy Weapons
- Thread starter Dragoner
- Start date
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
No
ok - answer is too short
still no
ok - answer is too short
still no
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Slightly longer pseudo physics answer (especially since the standard model we have today probably won't last another 10 years).
The nuclear damper manipulates the strong binding force - either strengthening or weakening it depending on your needs (IMHO nuclear damper tech is linked to fusion reactor miniaturisation at higher TLs).
Mesons (whatever the TL 11 particles actually are) are not affected by the strong binding force, which is why the meson screen is required to counter them.
Energy weapons generate their ball of plasma or fusing material in the weapon itself - to affect said weapons you'd have to be close enough to focus your damper on the weapon (ok - so at contact range I may allow nuclear dampers to affect energy weapons now I think about it).
Remember that the nuclear damper is actually two projectors that have to focus their beams/fields on the target to overlap and affect said target.
The nuclear damper manipulates the strong binding force - either strengthening or weakening it depending on your needs (IMHO nuclear damper tech is linked to fusion reactor miniaturisation at higher TLs).
Mesons (whatever the TL 11 particles actually are) are not affected by the strong binding force, which is why the meson screen is required to counter them.
Energy weapons generate their ball of plasma or fusing material in the weapon itself - to affect said weapons you'd have to be close enough to focus your damper on the weapon (ok - so at contact range I may allow nuclear dampers to affect energy weapons now I think about it).
Remember that the nuclear damper is actually two projectors that have to focus their beams/fields on the target to overlap and affect said target.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Slightly longer answer:
No, yes, and maybe...
No: Nuclear Dampers work (iirc) by altering the decay rate of particles (aka radiation) and (at least originally, again iirc) Energy Weapons (plasma and fusion) did not work by particle decay and produced no radiation effects, simply direct energy damage. Where this has changed to include radiation effects it would still probably only apply to the radiation effect. And maybe not even then.
Yes: Meson did talk about decay and radiation originally and so should it seems be affected by Nuclear Dampers, however...
Maybe: Meson hits (the actual point of decay and radiation) happen within your hull and without any predictor, so targeting them with Nuclear Dampers would be impossible meaning no. Unless you envision Nuclear Damper tech as a field that interferes with the targeting of Meson Weapons or prevents the decay meaning yes. However in that case all your own onboard decay processes are likewise affected which doesn't sound good for power plants and your own weapons and possibly other processes.
...or not. It's all pseudo-science so any explanation you can back up for your game works
No, yes, and maybe...
No: Nuclear Dampers work (iirc) by altering the decay rate of particles (aka radiation) and (at least originally, again iirc) Energy Weapons (plasma and fusion) did not work by particle decay and produced no radiation effects, simply direct energy damage. Where this has changed to include radiation effects it would still probably only apply to the radiation effect. And maybe not even then.
Yes: Meson did talk about decay and radiation originally and so should it seems be affected by Nuclear Dampers, however...
Maybe: Meson hits (the actual point of decay and radiation) happen within your hull and without any predictor, so targeting them with Nuclear Dampers would be impossible meaning no. Unless you envision Nuclear Damper tech as a field that interferes with the targeting of Meson Weapons or prevents the decay meaning yes. However in that case all your own onboard decay processes are likewise affected which doesn't sound good for power plants and your own weapons and possibly other processes.
...or not. It's all pseudo-science so any explanation you can back up for your game works
...or not. It's all pseudo-science so any explanation you can back up for your game works
Truth.
I am just just looking for others may have to say, in defense of the system of anyone questions it; imo in real world physics it probably would affect their operation.
IMHO they shouldn't, at least for energy weapons.
I hate to give this data without giving you exact references, but IIRC I've readed in some sources (among them the Starship Operator's Manual, MT) that the nuclear dampers stregthen nuclear bonds, and so avoid fission nuclear reactions, but are useless on fussion ones (in this sense, Hi Tech nuclear missiles, that are described as laser triggered fusion nukes, should also be immune to ND, a fact hinted in various sources but AFAIK never featured in the game). Energy weapons, aside from being high speed and very high temperature bolts, are based on fusion reactions.
I hate to give this data without giving you exact references, but IIRC I've readed in some sources (among them the Starship Operator's Manual, MT) that the nuclear dampers stregthen nuclear bonds, and so avoid fission nuclear reactions, but are useless on fussion ones (in this sense, Hi Tech nuclear missiles, that are described as laser triggered fusion nukes, should also be immune to ND, a fact hinted in various sources but AFAIK never featured in the game). Energy weapons, aside from being high speed and very high temperature bolts, are based on fusion reactions.
Bk 4, page 42:
Nuclear Dampers: A common term, dampers units actually may be used to increase or decrease the stability of atomic nuclei. Projecting from two separate stations, the intersection of the two transmitted broadcasts produces a series of nodes and anti-nodes. In the area of the nodes, the strong nuclear force is enhanced, making the nucleus more stable. In the area of the anti-nodes, the strong nuclear force is depressed, making the nucleus much less stable. Anti-nodes are focused on incoming nuclear warheads, causing them to shed neutrons at low energy levels, rendering the warhead inoperable.
So it seems it does both, making them more and less stable.
Nuclear Dampers: A common term, dampers units actually may be used to increase or decrease the stability of atomic nuclei. Projecting from two separate stations, the intersection of the two transmitted broadcasts produces a series of nodes and anti-nodes. In the area of the nodes, the strong nuclear force is enhanced, making the nucleus more stable. In the area of the anti-nodes, the strong nuclear force is depressed, making the nucleus much less stable. Anti-nodes are focused on incoming nuclear warheads, causing them to shed neutrons at low energy levels, rendering the warhead inoperable.
So it seems it does both, making them more and less stable.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Or boost/overload it. Power Plant 3 for the price and space of a Power Plant 1 anyone? Just add a damper!
One imagines then that power plants are either immune or shielded. And if shielded then why not other items, like nuke missiles? And you could still boost your own. And if immune then it (the damper or the power plant, etc.) is not operating the way we think.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
IIRC this is actually done in a TNE adventure.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Probably because a nuclear damper catalysed, grav compression fusion reactor uses a fusion reaction that produces little radiation (such do exist).
In the event of a catastrophic power plant hit you get a small ball of rapidly cooling plasma leaking into the engineering compartment.
Andrew Boulton
The Adminator
My group figured out that idea 20+ years ago !
I vaguely remember skirting the subject a long time ago; though this could be totally evil: at a starport, don't let ships leave or in defence watch them fall out of the sky or get dragged into the gravity well of a planet. How about a damper ship hiding in a gas giant...
Starviking
SOC-13
Yup, in the Guilded Lilly a repair bay damper is used to immobilize a virus-controlled ship.
Icosahedron
SOC-14 1K
A few thoughts:
Mesons (real world ones, anyway) are particles bound by the Strong force, so could be affected in theory. However, in practice a meson beam is invisible and launched from a potentially undiscovered source to an undisclosed target at near light speed, so actually focusing the damper node on a group of mesons would be near impossible. Presumably, meson screens interfere passively rather than via an active focus.
Fusion guns have a similar problem of beam speed and as stated above, the damage is thermal not a function of radiation release. Yes, if you focused on the gun itself, you could stop it.
Ships don't carry damper weapons since the weapon range/accuracy is a function of beam separation - they are short range weapons that are unsuited to ship combat.
A pair of dampers in the hold of a starship could theoretically halt a power plant, but only while they were switched on. An overload would not cause permanent damage IMTU, YMMV.
Dampers will only work if they are focused on the target. The target location must be known (where, exactly, is the fusion core in the enemy ship's power plant?) and must be of a targetable size (we're told it can focus on a warhead - say 1m across, but can it focus on the fusion chamber of a FGMP? How big is a 'node'?
Mesons (real world ones, anyway) are particles bound by the Strong force, so could be affected in theory. However, in practice a meson beam is invisible and launched from a potentially undiscovered source to an undisclosed target at near light speed, so actually focusing the damper node on a group of mesons would be near impossible. Presumably, meson screens interfere passively rather than via an active focus.
Fusion guns have a similar problem of beam speed and as stated above, the damage is thermal not a function of radiation release. Yes, if you focused on the gun itself, you could stop it.
Ships don't carry damper weapons since the weapon range/accuracy is a function of beam separation - they are short range weapons that are unsuited to ship combat.
A pair of dampers in the hold of a starship could theoretically halt a power plant, but only while they were switched on. An overload would not cause permanent damage IMTU, YMMV.
Dampers will only work if they are focused on the target. The target location must be known (where, exactly, is the fusion core in the enemy ship's power plant?) and must be of a targetable size (we're told it can focus on a warhead - say 1m across, but can it focus on the fusion chamber of a FGMP? How big is a 'node'?
