Not quite subtle player character

[PFVA63]

My read: He is extremely brave, of average intelligence (just), but very well-read. ....

I disagree a bit here, in that my feeling would be that an Intelligence of 7 isn't what I'd consider "of average intelligence (just)" but rather it would seem to me that its really fully and wholeheartedly right down the middle a typical/normal value. For all intents and purposes to me anyone with any STAT of 7 to me would represent a very normal and typical value and in reality I'd more or less consider anything between 6 & 8 as being more or less average.

For example, I have a Bachelor's degree from college, but for the most part that seems kind of typical where I live so I'd rate my EDU as maybe a 7 and similarly I'd hope maybe my INT may be a 7 as well, though since I'm kind of getting absent minded in my old age, I'm beginning to suspect that maybe a 6 (or even perhaps a little less) might be the best I could really hope for right now.

FC

 

[Enoki]

I disagree a bit here, in that my feeling would be that an Intelligence of 7 isn't what I'd consider "of average intelligence (just)" but rather it would seem to me that its really fully and wholeheartedly right down the middle a typical/normal value. For all intents and purposes to me anyone with any STAT of 7 to me would represent a very normal and typical value and in reality I'd more or less consider anything between 6 & 8 as being more or less average.

For example, I have a Bachelor's degree from college, but for the most part that seems kind of typical where I live so I'd rate my EDU as maybe a 7 and similarly I'd hope maybe my INT may be a 7 as well, though since I'm kind of getting absent minded in my old age, I'm beginning to suspect that maybe a 6 (or even perhaps a little less) might be the best I could really hope for right now.

FC

A Batchelor's degree is held by roughly 1/3rd of the population of Western nations. Now there is a range there from fairly easily obtained arts and fine arts degrees to far more intense ones like hard sciences or engineering. So, given that it represents an above average intellect to get one say 8 to 10. You might take the spread as 7 to 10.
A Master's or PhD I'd think would add 1 or 2 to intellect and education respectively over the Batchelor's.

 

[mike wightman]

A degree is not a measure of intelligence, it is a measure of education.

I know a lot of not very bright people with degrees, and a couple with doctorates.

 

[aramis]

A degree is not a measure of intelligence, it is a measure of education.

I know a lot of not very bright people with degrees, and a couple with doctorates.

AMEN!!!

I know a multiple Masters Degree holder who is functionally semi-literate (Reading level below grade 8). I've known several bachelor's degree holders whose IQ was below 100.

And, there was an interesting study of the average IQ's by major at several big name universities... and while it showed the average for incoming freshmen was about 110, and graduates was around 125, incoming freshman was very long-tailed, while graduates was much sharper drop off on the low end. It had some graduates all the way down to IQ's in the high 80's... (Sadly, Ed majors averaged lower amongst graduates than incoming freshmen... Ed programs can be really annoying to the intellectually gifted.)

 

[CosmicGamer]

I'm wondering where his authority ends.

I'd think any real authority ends when retired unless
1) He now holds some new position such as all retired generals are automatically members of the defense council.
2) In certain circumstances the military might give retired personnel some authority via automatic reactivation.
3) With his background, it would be much easier to fake someone into believing he has the proper authority.

Unofficially What might he be reasonably expected to be able to requisition, if anything? Or maybe "requisition" is too strong a term. Obtain? Access? Can he "acquire" a ship with a couple xmails? Does he have informal networks of platoon sergeants and mercenary groups on whom he may call favors?

For me this would be a situation for role playing and possibly rolling based on skills and stats.

his fame reaches beyond the Imperium.

this means his name is nearly a household word

I'm not sure what game system is being used or how how fame mechanics work.

I was talking with my wife analyzing realistic fame and after thinking of famous people, like JFK, I thought of Marylin Monroe. A name and a face I very much recognize. But I couldn't tell you a single movie she had ever been in and can't recall ever seeing one.

I mentioned the name Micheal Phelps to my wife. While she recognized the name, she did not know he was a swimmer.

I'm not a history or war buff and don't have a good memory of the long ago school history classes so while I recognize names like "MacArthur" or "Eisenhower" or "Churchill" and have some very general knowledge, I could not give many details and would probably get many wrong. Like my wife and the name Micheal Phelps, there are probably people who might recognize the names and not even know why.

And although fame may get you recognized, it differs depending on the circumstances. "Hitler" is quite famous. So is Charles Manson.

I personally didn't even know the name David Petraeus before the latest scandal and he's a general and CIA Director.

There is a war in Afghanistan but how many people know the name of the president of Afghanistan?

China has the second highest GDP and the largest population. Can you name their leaders?

I'm not sure what my point is in all this other than saying there is no one way to answer how people will respond to someone with fame or how far fame will spread.

 

[robject]

Not exactly a Napoleonic intelligence, or a Pulleresque leader, but a solid general who deserves to be one. (A jaded field grade might say that puts him in the minority of flag grades!) When he got the SEH would influence my opinion of his abilities: the earlier, then the less impressed I would be with how good a field and flag grade he was.

That's an interesting take. I went back and looked at his generation sheet to see -- the SEH was obtained just past the middle of his career (Term #5). The term reads thus:

38: Officer5. [Str]. Campaign Ribbon, SEH With Diamonds. Promoted.

Peace Keeper, Occupation, ANM School x 2.

Artillery-2, Automotive-2, Soc+1, Dex+1, Sensors, Pilot, Survival.

LS7: Dex-1.
[/qode]

So he got his *SEH* either during Peacekeeping ops, or during an Occupation (more likely, but not automatically true).

 

[robject]

I'm not a history or war buff and don't have a good memory of the long ago school history classes so while I recognize names like "MacArthur" or "Eisenhower" or "Churchill" and have some very general knowledge, I could not give many details and would probably get many wrong.

This is how I think of 'fame' to most people. The name is known, but not many facts, and perhaps many errors. To the relatively few people for whom the information is important, the actions and impact of these people may be studied.

Think of ol' what's-his-name from Starship Troopers, the instructor at the academy. And Baslim the Cripple from Citizen of the Galaxy. And Empress Arbellatra -- how many of us know anything about her, aside from (maybe) the year 622? Or was that 629? I can't remember. And what about Gustav? Does he matter? Not really... but his history is read in the Imperial Naval Academies.

Shifting gears ever so slightly, I've just realized that's what makes the Dumarest universe mythical: it has no history. This sets the focus nicely -- there's nothing to detract from the Man Dumarest and his mission to find Earth, against the powers of the Cyclan. In that respect, the lack of history is a story device that allows the story to become myth.

 

[rancke]

38: Officer5. [Str]. Campaign Ribbon, SEH With Diamonds. Promoted.

I thought the "with diamonds" indicated that he'd received it twice. What does "with diamonds" mean, then?


Hans

 

[rancke]

Think of ol' what's-his-name from Starship Troopers, the instructor at the academy. And Baslim the Cripple from Citizen of the Galaxy. And Empress Arbellatra -- how many of us know anything about her, aside from (maybe) the year 622? Or was that 629? I can't remember.

It's both. 622 is when she was proclaimed regent, 629 is when she was proclaimed empress. I know where there's a fairly detailed biographical entry for her (GURPS: Nobles), though I'd be lying if I said I could remember the details without checking. It's mentions her family and spouse.

And I know the name of her flag captain (Kevin Alderon), but that's because I made it up myself , and it hasn't made it into canon (only into JTAS Online).


Hans

 

[PFVA63]

A degree is not a measure of intelligence, it is a measure of education.

I know a lot of not very bright people with degrees, and a couple with doctorates.

Hi,

In my example I didn't mean to imply that education was an indication of intelligence. In that example I indicated that since I had a bachelor's degree, which seems fairly common around here, I had rated my EDU as average, and noted that I hoped my INT was close to that, but it might actually be a bit lower due to issues with absent mindedness, etc.

I only used EDU as an example to describe how I wouldn't see a rating of 7 as "average (just)".

I guess the issue that maybe I'm trying to get at is that treating a skill level of 7 as "Average (just)" or anything like that kind of undercuts that ratings system, as (to me at least) it seems to kind of imply that people would be looking at a rating of 8 (or more) as being more close to fully average than a rating of 7.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

... I thought of Marylin Monroe. A name and a face I very much recognize. But I couldn't tell you a single movie she had ever been in and can't recall ever seeing one.

You are a small, sad man...... *shaking head*

 

[Timerover51]

You are a small, sad man...... *shaking head*

If I were asked to pick out of a lineup the woman who just divorced Tom Cruise, any of the current crop of popular female or male vocalists, any member of the cast of friends beyond Jerry Seinfeld, or any of the cast of Cheers, I would fail completely.

The only two James Bonds that I recognize are Sean Connery and Roger Moore.

If someone offered me a million US Dollars if I could name one professional Hockey Player, he/she would keep their money.

If someone asks me who won the Super Bowl in 2012, I would have to look it up. Same with the current NBA Champion.

If someone asked me who plays on any of the CSI series, or wants to know how many there are and where they are supposedly located, I would need to look that up as well.

Against that, I do know and have seen the last movie by Monroe, The Misfits, which was Clark Gable's last movie as well. I did and still do like Some Like It Hot, with Monroe, Tony Curtis, Jack Lemmon, even if is does have a strange view of the Chicago gangsters of the Prohibition Era.

Fame is a very nebulous thing. Can anyone name the person, without looking it up, who Dupont Circle in Washington, D. C. is named after? Or how about the name of a major US commander in the European Theater in World War 2 besides Eisenhower, Bradley, and Patton? McAuliffe at Bastogne does not count as he was the Assistant Division Commander of the 101st Airborne. I am thinking Army or Army Group Commander. Who was Moshe Dayan, or Orde Wingate, or Bernard Freyberg, or Ian Hamilton? From the naval standpoint, who was Michael De Ruyter, Edward Preble, Pierre Suffren, or John Tovey, or Wilhelm von Tegetthoff?

At one point in time, all of these military commanders were very famous, and in some countries, still are.

In case you have not figured it out, I am reasonably good at military history, as for current music, TV, or movie figures, I have not the foggiest idea.

 

[samuelvss]

I disagree a bit here, in that my feeling would be that an Intelligence of 7 isn't what I'd consider "of average intelligence (just)" but rather it would seem to me that its really fully and wholeheartedly right down the middle a typical/normal value.

"Right down the middle" would be kinda average. My disparagement, (by saying "just") of a 7 Intel is by way of context. Average is subpar for a thinking man in the top .01%.

As to degrees equalling education, it depends on what the student takes/retains from the schooling. There are plenty of opportunities for gaining knowledge other than formal education; it is possible for a High School grad to be more "educated" than a Ph.D. I say this having worked in higher education for about 14 years.

As to formal education correlating with Intelligence, well... :rofl:

 

[PFVA63]

"Right down the middle" would be kinda average. My disparagement, (by saying "just") of a 7 Intel is by way of context. Average is subpar for a thinking man in the top .01%.

As to degrees equalling education, it depends on what the student takes/retains from the schooling. There are plenty of opportunities for gaining knowledge other than formal education; it is possible for a High School grad to be more "educated" than a Ph.D. I say this having worked in higher education for about 14 years.

As to formal education correlating with Intelligence, well... :rofl:

Hi,

I probably over reacted, though my concern is that by treating something right down the middle as "average (just)" (which to me kind of implied it being just barely average) kind of plays into over inflation of stats and abilities and such. I know that I've been guilty of this myself, but too often I've seen stats of 8 or 9 as being viewed as just barely acceptable for a character (especially since there is a strong possibility of some of these decreasing as a character is generated).

In general to me, I guess when I see a statement that seems to kind of suggest that being right down the middle is somehow just barely average seems to diminish the possibility that average is probably more than good enough and that only something above right down the middle is really acceptable or expected of a character.

 

[samuelvss]

At one point in time, all of these military commanders were very famous, and in some countries, still are.

Michael Korda (2004) In Ulysses S. Grant: Unlikely Hero makes the point that Grant was about the perfect general for the U.S. Army in the Civil War, and was successful at little else, with the exception of publishing his memoirs while dying of cancer. His memoirs were, at one point, the most widely owned book in the U.S. after the Bible. His fame was immense, despite being a mediocre president (with a reputation for be worse than he actually was).

He won the war, though, and that was enough for everyone. We was not an intellectual, though, but his character was such that it was suited to killing on an industrial scale and hounding Lee to no end.

Fame thus is not driven just by overall ability, but the achievement of great things, which owes much to circumstance.

 

[Timerover51]

Michael Korda (2004) In Ulysses S. Grant: Unlikely Hero makes the point that Grant was about the perfect general for the U.S. Army in the Civil War, and was successful at little else, with the exception of publishing his memoirs while dying of cancer. His memoirs were, at one point, the most widely owned book in the U.S. after the Bible. His fame was immense, despite being a mediocre president (with a reputation for be worse than he actually was).

He won the war, though, and that was enough for everyone. We was not an intellectual, though, but his character was such that it was suited to killing on an industrial scale and hounding Lee to no end.

Fame thus is not driven just by overall ability, but the achievement of great things, which owes much to circumstance.

I did not mention Grant, as he is still remembered to a degree in the US, because of commanding during the Civil War. What I was pointing out to Fritz_Brown that calling someone

You are a small, sad man...... *shaking head*

for not knowing any of Marilyn Monroe's movies was going too far. What a person view's as famous is as much dependent upon a person's interest and background as it does on the "famous person".

I was also trying to point out that fame is very transitory.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

What I was pointing out to Fritz_Brown that calling someone

You are a small, sad man...... *shaking head*

for not knowing any of Marilyn Monroe's movies was going too far.

And you were rather stodgy about it considering I did put a at the bottom of the post. In case I still haven't made the point, that was a joke. (Of which the point was to reinforce exactly what you said.)

 

[robject]

When To Run This Sort of Character

Timerover51 commented to me that characters like this are too powerful to be handed out to players. He worded it rather clumsily, with unfortunate choices of phrasing and rather stark (and slightly amusing and surprising) implications, but I think that's the gist of it. Too powerful, never do this.

But sayings like never do this in Traveller, in my opinion, really first requires knowledge of the referee and players.

Rather, it would be better to put it this way: players require a certain level of maturity and sophistication to play powerful characters in Traveller. While Timerover51's hasty conclusion didn't have that option, a little reflection shows the reasonableness of my statement.

And as a matter of fact, that character was played by one of my players this weekend, in a highly successful adventure. The other two players had relatively powerful characters as well, but the adventure was a success for three reasons:


1. We are mature [="old"?] and relatively sophisticated players, as well as longtime friends.

2. I put them in a survival situation where they started with no resources to rely on, other than their wits and their characters' skillsets. We got to test out several angles of Traveller5's task system (it worked well).

3. None of us were in it to "win" (see #1).

 

[aramis]

I disagree that this guy is a hazard... he's not much more powerful than any other retired general officer, and they are, generally powerless. They have influence, being well connected, but not power. Power is bad, but influence merely changes the way the game plays a little.

 

[robject]

Reasonable. In that case, I suppose Timerover51's comments have less value than I thought.