Not quite subtle player character

[robject]

I rolled up a character for a player, and this guy is so ridiculously cool I can't help but use him as-is.

I do have lots of questions about how to make the character 'work', but I'm not concerned enough to shelve him. In fact I'd love to see what he can -- and can't -- do.

In a nutshell, he's a retired Marine O8 -- that's beyond a General -- who received the MCG, two MCUFs, the SEH with Diamonds, a knighthood, and quite frankly his fame reaches beyond the Imperium.

While this means his name is nearly a household word (like "MacArthur" or "Eisenhower" or "Churchill"... or "Marx" for that matter), this also means he is probably hated by as many Imperial higher-ups as he is loved, and of course he is hated or feared by the Joes, Swordies, whoever. I assume he is respected by any intelligent higher-up.

Anyway. I'm wondering where his authority ends. When he enters a naval base, is the base placed at his disposal automagically?

Well, no. After all, he's not Navy. However, he's respected, and surely has a lot of pull, especially in the Marines.

Unofficially, then, what might he be reasonably expected to be able to requisition, if anything? Or maybe "requisition" is too strong a term. Obtain? Access? Can he "acquire" a ship with a couple xmails? Does he have informal networks of platoon sergeants and mercenary groups on whom he may call favors?

 

[samuelvss]

He would, IMTU, likely have great loyalty from those with whom he served. He would likely have as many enemies in the service as friends. He gets all the ruffles and flourishes he wants to, gets the VIP treatment on any Marine or Naval base; he can get all sorts of fat jobs on boards and the like. Never has to buy a beer. Always gets a speaking gig. May get rich speaking. He doesn't get any ships or have any real operational pull. He "borrows" it and breaks it, somebody's head rolls. He can probably hitch a lot of rides, though, but not divert assets. The number of people willing to face a Court Martial for him would be rather small, but there would be some who face a Court or bullet for him. How many depends on his story.

He would probably have a lot of pull in mutually advantageous situations, such as recruiting individuals or mercenary units, but less so in purely one-way arrangements. For instance, he would probably be able to heavily influence the decision of which ticket a mercenary commander would take, but he would probably have a hard time getting the same commander to incur a lot of costs just because of who he is. If the commander has some down time, a freebee might be conceivable, if it was a freebee: no munitions expended, no danger to personnel, etc.

Now, noble patronage might be quite another thing. That said, if this guy has the street cred, then maybe he can put together quite a unit. As to that if, there are a lot of things I want to know about this guy before I tell you how influencial he is: how smart and how skilled? Tactics? If you tell me he has Leader-4, well that is going to cut more mustard than a couple of SEH's in influencing human behavior. Tactics-3, I'm more likely to hook my war wagon to his mules. INT and EDU?

You say this guy is a rock star, but I am not sure I necessarily buy it. One can have a legendary military career (Chesty Puller, for example), and still be largely unknown outside military circles. How much bigger is the are the IM's than the U.S. Army? If we presume an O8 is a LTG, or the equivalent of a Corps Commander, can you tell me how many of our recent Corps commanders in the U.S. Army had a Silver Star? (I can't, and I'm in the Army!)

 

[DaveChase]

Another question to consider which samuelvss touched upon, what kind of character is he in personality?

Audie Murphy
General McCarther
Colin Powell
John Wayne
Tom Cruise
POTUS Obama
Fidel Castro
Former POTUS Nixon
Former POTUS D Eisenhower
Eddy Murphy
Colonel O'Neill (Stargate)

Talking about Presense and personality, not what they accomplished.

Also, play through (or consider) what they have been planning to do once they retired from service.

Start a Merc company
Fish some of the various planets he has been or fish at his hidden retreat home
Politics
Lobbist for companies
Start up his own big company (or small company, talking business here not merc)
Travell to places that he has not been and is not required to kill others
Visit and play with the grandkids along with spend time with his devoted wife

Just some thoughts

Dave Chase

 

[rancke]

In a nutshell, he's a retired Marine O8 -- that's beyond a General -- who received the MCG, two MCUFs, the SEH with Diamonds, a knighthood, and quite frankly his fame reaches beyond the Imperium.

The decorations are impressive, but the rank is not beyond general. It's the rank-equivalent of an army Major General, two steps below general. Major generals usually command divisions. Rhylanor alone has 25 of them (200 if you believe that the population multiplier ought to be taken into account) and Mora has 250.

Being an Imperial Marine he'd be a lot higher profile than many (practically all) run-of-the-mill planetary major generals, but if you have an Imperial Army, there'll be a slew of IA major generals to keep him company.

And then there are the Imperial Navy fleet admirals.

While this means his name is nearly a household word (like "MacArthur" or "Eisenhower" or "Churchill"... or "Marx" for that matter), this also means he is probably hated by as many Imperial higher-ups as he is loved, and of course he is hated or feared by the Joes, Swordies, whoever. I assume he is respected by any intelligent higher-up.

Not quite that much of a household word, I'd say. He's almost certainly never been in command of his own army. There are just too many lieutenant generals and generals around. Perhaps a name like Stonewall Jackson. Always the second in command pulling his general's chestnuts out of the fire.

Anyway. I'm wondering where his authority ends. When he enters a naval base, is the base placed at his disposal automagically?

If he's retired he doesn't have any authority at all. A tremendous amount of respect, but no authority. He could probably bluff a lot of serving marines into forgetting that, but not all.

Well, no. After all, he's not Navy. However, he's respected, and surely has a lot of pull, especially in the Marines.

Oh yes. The people he commanded, especially the ones whose lives he saved when his superiors was about to get them killed, and a lot who has just heard about him and are tremendously proud of his accomplishments as a fellow marine.

Unofficially, then, what might he be reasonably expected to be able to requisition, if anything? Or maybe "requisition" is too strong a term. Obtain? Access? Can he "acquire" a ship with a couple xmails? Does he have informal networks of platoon sergeants and mercenary groups on whom he may call favors?

He could probably get a lot of favors done as long as it left no paper trail. The OC of a small task force that is on a patrol might give him a ride to somewhere. OTOH, a ship that was under order to report at one base wouldn't be able to take him somewhere else and blow off its original orders.

A widespread gossip network sound likely enough.


Hans

 

[hdan]

What's his Social Standing? I would use that to see how much pull he has with the public at large.

 

[PFVA63]

Way back when I first got LBB4 I once rolled up a character kind of like that, but the really weird thing about him was that even though he had several high decorations (including a SEH) and was some sort of General, by a chance of fate, due to the skill tables that I rolled on he somehow ended up with absolutely no Leadership skill at all.

As such, its always kind of left me wondering if maybe somehow either certain skills should be pre-requisites before you can achieve a certain rank, or maybe certain skills should be given upon reaching a certain rank (in lieu of rolling the skill for that term.

 

[77topaz]

We would really need to know his UPP and skills.

 

[Enoki]

Actually, given he would be fairly old and having gotten his position by a combination of not screwing up and politics I'd say he is likely not the exciting guy you think.

I've known numerous officers of high rank in the military in RL. None of them were going to do some crazy thing. Now, the good ones would generally back junior personell in something that could make their unit or otherwise lead to success.

For example, I made (as a Navy Chief) a deal with a USAF Colonel to rehabilitate his unit's buildings putting in up to date electrical systems, lighting, and computer systems. He agreed to manufacture about 1000 parts I needed for a contact my shop had in exchange.
While there were some issues about the "color of money" in the end I got several civilian side GS stratosphere project managers to agree since they wanted the stuff and everybody was happy.

Some retired General is only going to have limited pull. In fact, it is my experiance that the best types to get things done aren't necessarily those with rank but those with initative and a certain willingness to bend the rules. Some General who has gotten a long way forward is better as a mentor and source of funding than as a "go to" guy who actually gets the job done.

 

[aramis]

I, too, have known a few retired generals... the ones I know are avid hunters and fishermen, and generally make it to church on time every week. They don't discuss their service much, and unless you happen to go to church on Veterans Day or Memorial Day, you'll not know they have stars on their uniform.

They exercise their pull in strange and interesting ways. One of them, when the neighborhood septic was on the fritz, coerced a buddy in Juneau to get a public health grant through to fix it, rather than have a community assessment.

 

[McPerth]

Way back when I first got LBB4 I once rolled up a character kind of like that, but the really weird thing about him was that even though he had several high decorations (including a SEH) and was some sort of General, by a chance of fate, due to the skill tables that I rolled on he somehow ended up with absolutely no Leadership skill at all.

As such, its always kind of left me wondering if maybe somehow either certain skills should be pre-requisites before you can achieve a certain rank, or maybe certain skills should be given upon reaching a certain rank (in lieu of rolling the skill for that term.

I guess one can reach generalship without too much leadership skill. After all, leadership is mostly to treat with troops, and once you reach high rank (I'd say from colonel an above) askills like administrative, liaison or even broker may be more useful, as you'd be more involved in logistics than in tactics and leadership.

Of course leadership and tactics may be useful in the way to this same generalship, but REMFs reaching this rank without ever using those skills is nothing unheard about. And having a SEH only means he proved exceptional courage (or madness) or was at the proper time in the proper place, not necessarely that he could led well his troops.

In any case MgT seems to agree with you, as skills per rank are an important feature in its chargen.

 

[Amber Chancer]

It is notorious that the skills needed to run an army on a peace footing, and the skills needed to lead an army on a war footing, are wholly and fundamentally different.

Just about every standing army the world has ever known has gone to war led by peacetime generals, who by and large are not great leaders of men, and have had to spend the first months (or even years) of the war identifying the right men to lead them in wartime.

Those "fighting leaders" have tended to come to the fore just in time for peace to be declared, and have then proved themselves hopelessly ill-suited to the generalship needs of an army at peace.

This is, of course, a sweeping generalisation and a grotesque over-simplification; and there are doubtless plenty of exceptions. But the general proposition remains good.

So you may easily get peacetime generals with little or no "leadership" skill in the sense of the Traveller "Leader" skill. Of course, your man has a combat record which suggests that his career has not been spent entirely at peace - but the odd short, sharp little war doesn't have time to enforce the total disruption of existing structures by clearing out the "peacetime generals" in favour of the "fighting leaders". So I think you should still be able to come up with a plausible back-story which fits your character profile.

 

[McPerth]

In a nutshell, he's a retired Marine O8 -- that's beyond a General -- who received the MCG, two MCUFs, the SEH with Diamonds, a knighthood, and quite frankly his fame reaches beyond the Imperium.

While this means his name is nearly a household word (like "MacArthur" or "Eisenhower" or "Churchill"... or "Marx" for that matter), this also means he is probably hated by as many Imperial higher-ups as he is loved, and of course he is hated or feared by the Joes, Swordies, whoever. I assume he is respected by any intelligent higher-up.

Anyway. I'm wondering where his authority ends. When he enters a naval base, is the base placed at his disposal automagically?

Well, I guess this is quite setting specific, but I'd stay with Hans here in that if he is retired he will have little to none official authority.

Well, no. After all, he's not Navy. However, he's respected, and surely has a lot of pull, especially in the Marines.

Sure he is.

From MgT LBB:2 HG, page 7, under the SEH:

Generals, Aldmirals and Subsector Dukes will all salute the man, or woman, who has shown the outstanding heroic qualitites necessary to win the award.

Unofficially, then, what might he be reasonably expected to be able to requisition, if anything? Or maybe "requisition" is too strong a term. Obtain? Access? Can he "acquire" a ship with a couple xmails? Does he have informal networks of platoon sergeants and mercenary groups on whom he may call favors?

I guess he will be able to obtain gossip and probably even lodging free in most those bases as a guest. If the base knows he will come, they probably will give him honors according to his rank and award, but little more officially. Of course, extraoficially, he could obtain more in the way of asistence, as long as it needn't to be written in papers.

In MTU (specific):

When someone receives the SEH, aside from the obvious honor it means, he/she also obtains:

-Honorary promotion of one grade after retiring (as told in MTM, page 49)

-Is kinghted in the Domain order or in Order of Emperor Guard (if he was not a knight or higher noble).

-A SEH cruiser (aka Gionetti class)(MT:RS page 81, IIRC it's also described somewhere in CT, but I cannot give exact reference) is comissioned somewhere in the Imperium and named after him/her. That cruiser will not be decomissioned while he/she is alive, and he/she will be honorary Capitain of the Cruiser for life, should it cross into his/her way (after all, Imperium is huge...).

 

[samuelvss]

I cannot help but think of MacArthur's final return to West Point, when he made his immortal Duty-Honor-Country speech. Hardly a more popular character, but if he had asked to take a company of cadets to go settle a little score in the Phillipines, I don't think the Supe would have let it slide. He got on the ceremony and devotion one could ask for, and I don't think you would have had a hard time getting a company to follow him on some unknown mission, but the bill-payers and those legally responsible for those lives, they're another thing.

As to generals without raw leadership, I've met a few. We had a corporal who used to work on an ammo detail during alerts, back when the cold war was very real in Germany. He would take off his uniform shirt, and order senior NCO's and officers around; they followed because he had it, and they trusted him. Taking the shirt off just made it a little easier. Leader-1

Met a cadet with Leader-3 once. You could have put any uniform on him, and put him in any military organization, at any echelon, and he could have led it. Army broke him in Ranger school; student pilot panicked.

 

[McPerth]

Met a cadet with Leader-3 once. You could have put any uniform on him, and put him in any military organization, at any echelon, and he could have led it. Army broke him in Ranger school; student pilot panicked.

(emphasis is mine)

Unless he had other skills you haven't talked us about, I'm not so sure about that. Sure he could lead his men wherever was needed, but at some echelons he could as well have been a failure, as his high leadership skill would have counted less than any administrative skill he had, and, if he was an action man, as I understand from what you tell, he would prorably have been very frustrated at those posts.

Unfortunately, in many militaries (and non-military organizations as well), best men are promoted to positions where their skills are useless, without regard about if they have the skills needed for their new post. This is called the Peter Principle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Principle

 

[Enoki]

I'd say for a senior military sort if you want exciting it would be either a senior enlisted or the equivalent of a Commander / Captain (Navy), or Lt. Colonel or Colonel, maybe a Lt. Cdr or Major.

These ranks have guys that will never advance further in their careers. They either are in the wrong line of work / occupational speciality, or they are not politically or socially connected enough to go further. They know it too.
So, for them taking some risks is acceptable. Their attitude might be "Its better ask forgiveness than never bother to try." They would have the rank and connections to get things done and within their own circles could make deals and do stuff nobody else seems to get done. I gave an example.

 

[robject]

For those who requested more data

He's 54, and zoomed up to the highest officer's rank available to the Marines (Cavalry in particular). His fame is specifically "beyond the Imperium".

He graduated from the Naval Academy with honors, and served 8 terms in the Marines, resulting in a disability discharge.
He was knighted upon mustering out.
His UPP is A997CB.

He has Tactics-5 (good in Traveller 5) and Leadership-3 (merely competent in Traveller 5). In MegaTraveller parlance, they might be Tactics-4 and Leadership-2.

 

[Whipsnade]

I rolled up a character for a player, and this guy is so ridiculously cool I can't help but use him as-is. I do have lots of questions about how to make the character 'work', but I'm not concerned enough to shelve him. In fact I'd love to see what he can -- and can't -- do.

Your Imperial Marine sounds a lot like a high ranking naval officer I rolled up back in the day. The character was too good to toss away but also too good to allow as a player-character. I kept him in my "recurring characters file" along with a few other notable creations like the economics spook Mattiason or the too-good-to-be-true Javier Blanco.

I think his best use would as a "plot starter". The players would bump into him and get shanghaied into whatever shenanigans he has going on at the time. Whatever the players find themselves in, they won't get rich, the Imperium will benefit, and no one will believe their stories even if they're allowed to tell them.

He's basically another version of that wonderful dead tree JTAS character Finger and I'd play him much like Lord Flashheart from "Blackadder Goes Forth".

 

[samuelvss]

(emphasis is mine)

Unless he had other skills you haven't talked us about, I'm not so sure about that. Sure he could lead his men wherever was needed, but at some echelons he could as well have been a failure, as his high leadership skill would have counted less than any administrative skill he had, and, if he was an action man, as I understand from what you tell, he would prorably have been very frustrated at those posts.

Unfortunately, in many militaries (and non-military organizations as well), best men are promoted to positions where their skills are useless, without regard about if they have the skills needed for their new post. This is called the Peter Principle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Principle

I agree wholeheartedy that leadership is a necessary but not sufficient cause for excellence in a leader. An idiot with great leadership ability is still an idiot, albeit a much more dangerous one. The most important thing for a good leader to know is what he does not know; after that, who knows these things; and after that, how to gain the loyalty of those who know the things he does not.

While not quantified in our game, character is critical as well. Napoleon knew he should have waited until the next spring to invade Russia, but just couldn't stand the waiting.

On a somber note, even Petraeus knew better.

A good leader can inspire a lot of managers, but the contary is seldom true. As to my example, yes he was smart, and he had the humility that is truly an asset in a leader. There were others a bit smarter (if we're ranking those within the top 1% nationally), but those people would have ended up working for him. But for a cherry pilot who couldn't keep his bird from oscillating...

I can train managers a lot easier than I can train true leaders; some leadership can be taught, but much has to be built on innate qualities.

 

[samuelvss]

His UPP is A997CB. He has Tactics-5 (good in Traveller 5) and Leadership-3 (merely competent in Traveller 5). In MegaTraveller parlance, they might be Tactics-4 and Leadership-2.

My read: He is extremely brave, of average intelligence (just), but very well-read. He is inspiring enough for what is likely required of him at his level, and an excellent/very good tactician. He has likely spent his career mostly in command, knows how to get the best out of a staff, and knows his own limitations.

Not exactly a Napoleonic intelligence, or a Pulleresque leader, but a solid general who deserves to be one. (A jaded field grade might say that puts him in the minority of flag grades!) When he got the SEH would influence my opinion of his abilities: the earlier, then the less impressed I would be with how good a field and flag grade he was.

 

[Enoki]

My read: He is extremely brave, of average intelligence (just), but very well-read. He is inspiring enough for what is likely required of him at his level, and an excellent/very good tactician. He has likely spent his career mostly in command, knows how to get the best out of a staff, and knows his own limitations.

Not exactly a Napoleonic intelligence, or a Pulleresque leader, but a solid general who deserves to be one. (A jaded field grade might say that puts him in the minority of flag grades!) When he got the SEH would influence my opinion of his abilities: the earlier, then the less impressed I would be with how good a field and flag grade he was.

Or, he might just be this sort:

http://learningenglish.voanews.com/content/short-story-luck-by-mark-twain-144744035/607201.html