And, it's a given that the referee is free to ignore, move, or change any data that s/he needs to...
No more Imperium...
- Thread starter jackleg
- Start date
And, it's a given that the referee is free to ignore, move, or change any data that s/he needs to...
Drakon
SOC-14 1K
While in general I agree, I am not sure it can be done. There were certain design decisions in the rules that reflect upon the design of the setting and vice versa.
Jump drive has the effect of forcing ships to "star hop" instead of, like in Star Wars and Star Trek, direct line of sight travel between any two systems. This causes the Empire to grow along a specific path, and set time delays between the capital and the frountier. The technology determine's setting, the rules determine the technology.
FFS does it's bit to help, but I think more rules as well as discussions of the effects of different technologies, has on culture and setting.
Agreed. When I finally got TNE back when it came out, I read the bit where it said (I'm paraphrasing, I had to sell my MT, TNE, & T4 stuff) if you didn't like the death of Strephon & the fall of the Imperium; or virus ignore it. I did, though I do use virus as an annoyance & one of my main NPC's is a Mother virus infected companion bot.
The Imperium of Traveller Past
Greetings all,
Loooooong time Traveller guy here (since the late '70s), and even published the Security Leak Magazine (a Traveller fanzine) under Marc's permission back in the late '80s and early '90s... I still have his letter somewhere, along with all my original Traveller and SLM stuff.
For me, the true Traveller always was and always will be the original classic universe. The glue that held everything together was the Third Imperium, and for me there was barely just enough meat on the bones created by GDW to give me plenty of creative freedom to create my own mini-universe within the Imperium if I wanted to. That was the beauty of Traveller: creating your own universe. To this day, I have that old sticker inside my original hardback Traveller book: "Come play in my universe." It's that very lack of specificity that let my imagination run wild, and it's what kept me up late at night dreaming up new stuff. That's what got my engine going.
Where the real creativity chimed in was when you left the borders of the Imperium, into those realms of space where there was little or no existing materials. Those places were ripe for creativity. At one time (albeit briefly), I somehow ended up creating a sector for DGP in their earlier days - I never finished it, as life took me in another direction, but it just goes to show that even a once die-hard Traveller geek like me ended up with free reign and a lot of imagination. I even somehow ended up in the MegaTraveller Rebellion Sourcebook credits and got a free copy from GDW... that was a pleasant and very flattering surprise. (Thanks, Marc!)
Had Traveller had details on every little aspect of the Imperium, it would have killed my love for the game. Then it would have simply been a matter of buying every single rule book and memorizing where I had to find tidbit information x to apply to game scenario y... there would have been no fun in that.
No, the TI was never over-documented. While I wasn't a fan of MegaTraveller's complex task system, I do think that the assassination of Emperor Strephon gave a new twist and plenty of opportunities to the Third Imperium setting, which after I'd played Traveller for over 10 years at that time, was a nice and refreshing change.
I'm sad that GDW couldn't have continued as a going-concern, and I have to admit that I've been confused since the MegaTraveller days by the litany of Traveller variations that have been put out over the years. TNE, T4, T5, D20... whatever. I've completely ignored those variations.
No, to me the true Traveller universe is still at the heart of the original classic Traveller universe, where the Imperium was old enough to be repressive if you wanted it to be, but young enough to still be vast and unexplored if you wanted it to be. It was truly a universe ripe for me to play in, and I loved every minute of it.
Cheers,
Gregg Giles
Editor, Security Leak Magazine (defunct)
San Francisco, California
Greetings all,
Loooooong time Traveller guy here (since the late '70s), and even published the Security Leak Magazine (a Traveller fanzine) under Marc's permission back in the late '80s and early '90s... I still have his letter somewhere, along with all my original Traveller and SLM stuff.
For me, the true Traveller always was and always will be the original classic universe. The glue that held everything together was the Third Imperium, and for me there was barely just enough meat on the bones created by GDW to give me plenty of creative freedom to create my own mini-universe within the Imperium if I wanted to. That was the beauty of Traveller: creating your own universe. To this day, I have that old sticker inside my original hardback Traveller book: "Come play in my universe." It's that very lack of specificity that let my imagination run wild, and it's what kept me up late at night dreaming up new stuff. That's what got my engine going.
Where the real creativity chimed in was when you left the borders of the Imperium, into those realms of space where there was little or no existing materials. Those places were ripe for creativity. At one time (albeit briefly), I somehow ended up creating a sector for DGP in their earlier days - I never finished it, as life took me in another direction, but it just goes to show that even a once die-hard Traveller geek like me ended up with free reign and a lot of imagination. I even somehow ended up in the MegaTraveller Rebellion Sourcebook credits and got a free copy from GDW... that was a pleasant and very flattering surprise. (Thanks, Marc!)
Had Traveller had details on every little aspect of the Imperium, it would have killed my love for the game. Then it would have simply been a matter of buying every single rule book and memorizing where I had to find tidbit information x to apply to game scenario y... there would have been no fun in that.
No, the TI was never over-documented. While I wasn't a fan of MegaTraveller's complex task system, I do think that the assassination of Emperor Strephon gave a new twist and plenty of opportunities to the Third Imperium setting, which after I'd played Traveller for over 10 years at that time, was a nice and refreshing change.
I'm sad that GDW couldn't have continued as a going-concern, and I have to admit that I've been confused since the MegaTraveller days by the litany of Traveller variations that have been put out over the years. TNE, T4, T5, D20... whatever. I've completely ignored those variations.
No, to me the true Traveller universe is still at the heart of the original classic Traveller universe, where the Imperium was old enough to be repressive if you wanted it to be, but young enough to still be vast and unexplored if you wanted it to be. It was truly a universe ripe for me to play in, and I loved every minute of it.
Cheers,
Gregg Giles
Editor, Security Leak Magazine (defunct)
San Francisco, California
Peter Schutze
SOC-12
>......where the Imperium was old enough to be repressive if you wanted it to be....
yeah, the spinward marches for firefly type cowboying, the core for oppression and lots of other areas in between
yeah, the spinward marches for firefly type cowboying, the core for oppression and lots of other areas in between
Peter Schutze
SOC-12
>Only one world in each of those systems is detailed ..leaving the rest of the system <zero to ?? wolrds and worldlets > left to the GM to figure out
yep, the one the "government" thinks is most important .... but often will not be for players (except as a shopping mall / repair yard) if its a huge pop world cause there'd be plenty of people spilling to the lesser worlds of the system
yep, the one the "government" thinks is most important .... but often will not be for players (except as a shopping mall / repair yard) if its a huge pop world cause there'd be plenty of people spilling to the lesser worlds of the system
I don't see any point to an official universe where mapping is concerned.
Trying to make something that looks/works in a reasonable manner is possibly impossible when using the wacky UWP and no economic/political guidelines between worlds ( well Pocket Empires gives that a shot at least ).
And with the Entire Universe mapped complete with published UWPs, why bother with worldbuilding anywasy; dump the UWP rules.... there's no place to explore anymore. And if you need something bigger that the SpinWard Marches, then maybe the ref isn't trying hard enough.
As a result, playing Traveller in an OTU is like looking at something through a telescope or a microscope, but not with the naked eye.
<2 subsectors are enough for me>
mtu != otu
Trying to make something that looks/works in a reasonable manner is possibly impossible when using the wacky UWP and no economic/political guidelines between worlds ( well Pocket Empires gives that a shot at least ).
And with the Entire Universe mapped complete with published UWPs, why bother with worldbuilding anywasy; dump the UWP rules.... there's no place to explore anymore. And if you need something bigger that the SpinWard Marches, then maybe the ref isn't trying hard enough.
As a result, playing Traveller in an OTU is like looking at something through a telescope or a microscope, but not with the naked eye.
<2 subsectors are enough for me>
mtu != otu
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BardicHeart
SOC-12
We'd like to give you a different perspective... but first a word from our sponsor...
Let me preface things with a little background regarding my convoluted history with Traveller. My first exposure to Traveller was around 1983 (to the best of my memory) by a High School friend who couldn't stop praising it. At the time however I was more involved in AD&D and Star Frontiers and never took a serious interest in Traveller, something I kind of regret at this point. Traveller left my "radar" until around 2003 when I started looking for something to fill in the gaps in Fading Suns (a game I was initially enthusiastic about but then became increasingly disenchanted with, a case of great story line, lousy mechanics and no depth). At first this was just individual books like Hard Time and Pocket Empires, which I bought to mine for ideas. As time passed I found myself increasingly acquiring more books for Traveller, but in a haphazard way and still mainly as a "resource" to mine for ideas (starship construction, surprisingly the Traveller rules work better for designing FS ships than the FS rules... I've always wondered about that). To wrap this up, in the last two years I've taken more of a serious interest in Traveller and really begun collecting (at present I have most of the stuff for CT, MT, TNE and T4 in pdf form, and now I'm eyeballing the few items I'm missing and some of the MgT stuff). But as yet I've not attempted a serious Traveller campaign mostly due to time constraints (job, home life, crazy economy, etc.) and still clingin to Fading Suns which... finally... I think I'm finished with, the love is gone, its over... maybe we can still be friends (that's a lie of course, I'm not gonna call). That said, I'm actually at a point where I'd like to run or play in a serious Traveller game. Which brings me round to the persepective (finally you're thinking, this guy babbles way too much...).
Essentially, I'm still a new player. I've read through this entire thread and at times it was a little difficult to keep up. I wonder if some of you realize just how much information, trivia, etc. you have accumulated over the years and how overwhelming that seems to someone new. In trying to "catch up" I've been going through my CT folder and re-reading everything... after which I plan to go through my MT folder and do the same, then the TNE folder and finally the T4 folder (I've read most of it before, but this time I'm being more methodical to try an keep it all straight). I wonder, however, what I'll miss because of those things I still don't have... JTAS articles and Challenger magazines for example. For someone new trying to "get up to speed" in the OTU, its daunting, at times confusing, and at times frustrating. I find myself confusing rules references... was that rule about power plants from CT or MT... no wait... it was T4... I think... ugh. I'm a reasonably smart guy, pretty good memory, but the sheer volume of material feels a bit like trying to catch rain drops... you may get some of it, but there so much more you miss. These four file folders are bad enough and then there is MgT which I haven't bought anything for yet.... I think I hate them for publishing MORE stuff and I don't even know them!!! LOL
The point, burried in all the above in my own special rambling way boils down to this. T5 will be argued over by the veteran players and fanboys, some who will love it, some who will hate it, some who will love parts of it and hate others. But you guys can always fall back on your favorite MTU (at least I'm figuring out some of these abbreviations... progress! :rofl: ) and house rules or combination of rules from different versions. Not so for those of us who are new. You guys have an encyclopedic knowledge (probably more than many of you realize) of OTU and can use that to fill in blanks, explain things, etc... not so for new players. For those of us new, we don't yet know enough to know what our favorite rules or milieu is... we don't even know enough to know where to start figuring that out. I'd be willing to bet that I'm an exception, I doubt most players would go out, buy up as much of four entire rule sets / milieus as they can get their hands on and then begin systematically reading them. I'm just uber-geeky that way. Most wouldn't, most would get frustrated and find a game that was more accessible.
For me, as a new player, OTU isn't accessible in the same way as say... Fading Suns is (which despite mechanics that just FAIL, no functional economy and other problems, the setting is just plain captivating). Too much of the information is spread across too many sources (which prevents OTU from being captivating in the same way to new players). My opinion, my persepective, is that T5 needs to accomplish two things... first, a solid well written but easy to use set of core rules... the definitive set (one set of rules to rule them all, and in the jumplanes bind them...). Second, it needs to present the OTU in a consolidated, accessible form that draws people in and makes them WANT to explore it. I believe, in my opinion, that if it doesn't do those two things T5 will end up just another edition among many instead of becoming the definitive edition it could and should be.
I also worry that the rules will try to be too comprehensive and end up too much like "the game that shall not be named" (otherwise known as F.A.T.A.L. which turned out to be rahter ironically named). That is... too many tables, too much detail. My experience is that many players (and this seems to be part of the love affair some have with CT) is short and simple CharGen, starship construction rules, and fast combat rules. The compromise is to make the core rules something that can create a character in 5 min, build a starship on a scratch pad in about the same and keeps a round of combat down to again, around 5 min or less. But then there's the optional rules that allow detailled chargen and pregame development for layers upon layers of rich character background. Optional starship rules that would make any gearhead salivate allowing almost any sort of starship, from a dreadnaught to a fleet carrier to a small trader to a long range exploration ship to a heavily automated asteroid mining and processing ship. Optional combat rules for mass combat, detailed hit locations, called shots, martial arts and whatever else players might want.
And the setting. I'd vote for a series of Milieu books as well as a "build your own Traveller Universe" book for those who want to tackle that but don't know where to start. The Milieu books should be captivating, written so that they present a setting that sparks the imagination and draws you in. Many newer gamers today are used to having canned settings handed to them, and don't necessarily know where to begin creating their own. Write a book that shows them how, takes them through it step by step and breaks it down into manageable chunks and you might have a source book that gets bought my more than just Traveller fans.
At least that's my perspective on it.
Now if you'll excuse me... I've got a lot of CT stuff left to read while scribbling notes for my own ATU (cause after all this, I've come to conclude if I want to put a game together sometime this year it'd be easier to write my own setting than wait til I feel I'm up to speed on all things OTU). But thought maybe the different perspective might be constructive.
Let me preface things with a little background regarding my convoluted history with Traveller. My first exposure to Traveller was around 1983 (to the best of my memory) by a High School friend who couldn't stop praising it. At the time however I was more involved in AD&D and Star Frontiers and never took a serious interest in Traveller, something I kind of regret at this point. Traveller left my "radar" until around 2003 when I started looking for something to fill in the gaps in Fading Suns (a game I was initially enthusiastic about but then became increasingly disenchanted with, a case of great story line, lousy mechanics and no depth). At first this was just individual books like Hard Time and Pocket Empires, which I bought to mine for ideas. As time passed I found myself increasingly acquiring more books for Traveller, but in a haphazard way and still mainly as a "resource" to mine for ideas (starship construction, surprisingly the Traveller rules work better for designing FS ships than the FS rules... I've always wondered about that). To wrap this up, in the last two years I've taken more of a serious interest in Traveller and really begun collecting (at present I have most of the stuff for CT, MT, TNE and T4 in pdf form, and now I'm eyeballing the few items I'm missing and some of the MgT stuff). But as yet I've not attempted a serious Traveller campaign mostly due to time constraints (job, home life, crazy economy, etc.) and still clingin to Fading Suns which... finally... I think I'm finished with, the love is gone, its over... maybe we can still be friends (that's a lie of course, I'm not gonna call). That said, I'm actually at a point where I'd like to run or play in a serious Traveller game. Which brings me round to the persepective (finally you're thinking, this guy babbles way too much...).
Essentially, I'm still a new player. I've read through this entire thread and at times it was a little difficult to keep up. I wonder if some of you realize just how much information, trivia, etc. you have accumulated over the years and how overwhelming that seems to someone new. In trying to "catch up" I've been going through my CT folder and re-reading everything... after which I plan to go through my MT folder and do the same, then the TNE folder and finally the T4 folder (I've read most of it before, but this time I'm being more methodical to try an keep it all straight). I wonder, however, what I'll miss because of those things I still don't have... JTAS articles and Challenger magazines for example. For someone new trying to "get up to speed" in the OTU, its daunting, at times confusing, and at times frustrating. I find myself confusing rules references... was that rule about power plants from CT or MT... no wait... it was T4... I think... ugh. I'm a reasonably smart guy, pretty good memory, but the sheer volume of material feels a bit like trying to catch rain drops... you may get some of it, but there so much more you miss. These four file folders are bad enough and then there is MgT which I haven't bought anything for yet.... I think I hate them for publishing MORE stuff and I don't even know them!!! LOL
The point, burried in all the above in my own special rambling way boils down to this. T5 will be argued over by the veteran players and fanboys, some who will love it, some who will hate it, some who will love parts of it and hate others. But you guys can always fall back on your favorite MTU (at least I'm figuring out some of these abbreviations... progress! :rofl: ) and house rules or combination of rules from different versions. Not so for those of us who are new. You guys have an encyclopedic knowledge (probably more than many of you realize) of OTU and can use that to fill in blanks, explain things, etc... not so for new players. For those of us new, we don't yet know enough to know what our favorite rules or milieu is... we don't even know enough to know where to start figuring that out. I'd be willing to bet that I'm an exception, I doubt most players would go out, buy up as much of four entire rule sets / milieus as they can get their hands on and then begin systematically reading them. I'm just uber-geeky that way. Most wouldn't, most would get frustrated and find a game that was more accessible.
For me, as a new player, OTU isn't accessible in the same way as say... Fading Suns is (which despite mechanics that just FAIL, no functional economy and other problems, the setting is just plain captivating). Too much of the information is spread across too many sources (which prevents OTU from being captivating in the same way to new players). My opinion, my persepective, is that T5 needs to accomplish two things... first, a solid well written but easy to use set of core rules... the definitive set (one set of rules to rule them all, and in the jumplanes bind them...). Second, it needs to present the OTU in a consolidated, accessible form that draws people in and makes them WANT to explore it. I believe, in my opinion, that if it doesn't do those two things T5 will end up just another edition among many instead of becoming the definitive edition it could and should be.
I also worry that the rules will try to be too comprehensive and end up too much like "the game that shall not be named" (otherwise known as F.A.T.A.L. which turned out to be rahter ironically named). That is... too many tables, too much detail. My experience is that many players (and this seems to be part of the love affair some have with CT) is short and simple CharGen, starship construction rules, and fast combat rules. The compromise is to make the core rules something that can create a character in 5 min, build a starship on a scratch pad in about the same and keeps a round of combat down to again, around 5 min or less. But then there's the optional rules that allow detailled chargen and pregame development for layers upon layers of rich character background. Optional starship rules that would make any gearhead salivate allowing almost any sort of starship, from a dreadnaught to a fleet carrier to a small trader to a long range exploration ship to a heavily automated asteroid mining and processing ship. Optional combat rules for mass combat, detailed hit locations, called shots, martial arts and whatever else players might want.
And the setting. I'd vote for a series of Milieu books as well as a "build your own Traveller Universe" book for those who want to tackle that but don't know where to start. The Milieu books should be captivating, written so that they present a setting that sparks the imagination and draws you in. Many newer gamers today are used to having canned settings handed to them, and don't necessarily know where to begin creating their own. Write a book that shows them how, takes them through it step by step and breaks it down into manageable chunks and you might have a source book that gets bought my more than just Traveller fans.
At least that's my perspective on it.
Now if you'll excuse me... I've got a lot of CT stuff left to read while scribbling notes for my own ATU (cause after all this, I've come to conclude if I want to put a game together sometime this year it'd be easier to write my own setting than wait til I feel I'm up to speed on all things OTU). But thought maybe the different perspective might be constructive.
shadowcat20
SOC-12
I enjoy all the history of the Imperium. Everything has a place and you understand how things work. Part of the reason I stayed away from MT was the lets kill the emp and blow everything up mind set. Thank the stars I missed the " this is not enough,lets just kill everyone else and blow more things up" TNE.
For me making ships, building Striker vehicles and weapons, and discovering a new world every time I rolled one up helped keep the game alive even when I was not playing.
There are lots of things players can still do. They can even build subsectors above or below the canon ones. Space is not 2D. Just consider the planets in layers with a few bridges between them, sort of like the J5 path across the rift. Let the players go up 3 or 4 systems and it flattens out to a whole new sector to explore.
Or you can do the Firefly thing and take a system and nuts and bolts out every rock, planet, and rock field. Let the party run around a system dropping off supplies to miners for the company. Lots of chances to rough it and get into trouble while they try to fix up their beater starship to jump out. Or even just fix the J drive so they can micro jump to the binary star at the edge of the system a few hundred AU's out. Then deliver more stuff to the miners there.
Core exploring is another way to go, or just one massive misjump to places unknown. Sort of like voyager, Find out where you are, and try to get home. New worlds, new empires, new tech without violating canon for the Imperium, and new aliens. "You are from where? They are HOW big?" Every small empire will want to talk to them.
The game was built to be open in the early days. Players wanted more background so they got it. And then some...and them some more....But lots of rocks were left unturned. Flip a few and see where they lead.
For me making ships, building Striker vehicles and weapons, and discovering a new world every time I rolled one up helped keep the game alive even when I was not playing.
There are lots of things players can still do. They can even build subsectors above or below the canon ones. Space is not 2D. Just consider the planets in layers with a few bridges between them, sort of like the J5 path across the rift. Let the players go up 3 or 4 systems and it flattens out to a whole new sector to explore.
Or you can do the Firefly thing and take a system and nuts and bolts out every rock, planet, and rock field. Let the party run around a system dropping off supplies to miners for the company. Lots of chances to rough it and get into trouble while they try to fix up their beater starship to jump out. Or even just fix the J drive so they can micro jump to the binary star at the edge of the system a few hundred AU's out. Then deliver more stuff to the miners there.
Core exploring is another way to go, or just one massive misjump to places unknown. Sort of like voyager, Find out where you are, and try to get home. New worlds, new empires, new tech without violating canon for the Imperium, and new aliens. "You are from where? They are HOW big?" Every small empire will want to talk to them.
The game was built to be open in the early days. Players wanted more background so they got it. And then some...and them some more....But lots of rocks were left unturned. Flip a few and see where they lead.
The original poster said this 5+ years ago:
My brain, not working so well it seems, finally wondered what a "new setting" means in terms of adventures? What would it offer that's actually new?
For example, take a "Faraway Sector" setting that's sort of colonial -- a Firefly-esque setting, with a trimvirate of powerful worlds, a surrounding shell of supporting worlds, and an outer crust of frontier worlds. Just a couple of subsectors of humans.
A different starchart, a different governmental style. Different ship designs, to a certain degree, although they'd use the same design system. But what on the player's level would be different?
The only thing I could think of is that the future hasn't been written, which only means that the referee is free to do what he wants, or wait for developments, and players might feel less bounded. This might be a valid "color" for a new setting.
But how does this differ from a homebrew setting? Is it a production quality issue? A completeness and consistency issue?
Trying to wrap my head around what "new setting" really means.
Chargen, combat, weapons, equipment, starships, smallcraft, worldgen, beasts, sophonts, etc all follow the same rules, even if different versions of them are invented. Won't that make it feel like Just Another Traveller Adventure?
My brain, not working so well it seems, finally wondered what a "new setting" means in terms of adventures? What would it offer that's actually new?
For example, take a "Faraway Sector" setting that's sort of colonial -- a Firefly-esque setting, with a trimvirate of powerful worlds, a surrounding shell of supporting worlds, and an outer crust of frontier worlds. Just a couple of subsectors of humans.
A different starchart, a different governmental style. Different ship designs, to a certain degree, although they'd use the same design system. But what on the player's level would be different?
The only thing I could think of is that the future hasn't been written, which only means that the referee is free to do what he wants, or wait for developments, and players might feel less bounded. This might be a valid "color" for a new setting.
But how does this differ from a homebrew setting? Is it a production quality issue? A completeness and consistency issue?
Trying to wrap my head around what "new setting" really means.
Chargen, combat, weapons, equipment, starships, smallcraft, worldgen, beasts, sophonts, etc all follow the same rules, even if different versions of them are invented. Won't that make it feel like Just Another Traveller Adventure?
BardicHeart
SOC-12
Then there is the question of "new to whom?"
For me, pretty much everything is new, as it will be for any new player. For new players its not so much a need for a new setting as making the existing setting more easily accessible and understood.
"New setting" is really a concept that only applies when dealing with the veteran players and in that case "new" probably means "something different than what we have now." "New" might be a sector developed with new material, perhaps new aliens or a new polity or it might be a completely new "universe". It could be a different approach to what you have now. For example, drawing from Fading Suns there are entire source books dealing with heretics, rebels, terrorists and other counter-culture movements, does the 3I have any counter cultures and has that been developed? If by the time of HardTimes the 3I had been "rotting from within" then maybe "new" might be looking at the social reaction to that, did anyone resist it, protest it, did that contribute to the collapse? Sometimes "new" is just taking the opposite perspective of what you have now. But either way, "new" seems to mean something different than what we have now.
Since anything new would be new to new players then it seems the question really only relates to what would be new to you "old-timers" (couldn't resist using that
) So what has been done so far? You've got a had a huge empire, various alien empires, a civil war, a hyper active computer virus, oh.. and ancient aliens... what does that leave? What hasn't been done yet?
Another way to look at it... when people say they want something new, maybe its that they want an alternative. If that's a case an alternative to what? What do you have in OTU that doesn't have an alternative of some kind. What I mean is... if you don't like the 3I, is there an alternative to that? Has that alternative been developed in any way?
Just some thoughts.
For me, pretty much everything is new, as it will be for any new player. For new players its not so much a need for a new setting as making the existing setting more easily accessible and understood.
"New setting" is really a concept that only applies when dealing with the veteran players and in that case "new" probably means "something different than what we have now." "New" might be a sector developed with new material, perhaps new aliens or a new polity or it might be a completely new "universe". It could be a different approach to what you have now. For example, drawing from Fading Suns there are entire source books dealing with heretics, rebels, terrorists and other counter-culture movements, does the 3I have any counter cultures and has that been developed? If by the time of HardTimes the 3I had been "rotting from within" then maybe "new" might be looking at the social reaction to that, did anyone resist it, protest it, did that contribute to the collapse? Sometimes "new" is just taking the opposite perspective of what you have now. But either way, "new" seems to mean something different than what we have now.
Since anything new would be new to new players then it seems the question really only relates to what would be new to you "old-timers" (couldn't resist using that
) So what has been done so far? You've got a had a huge empire, various alien empires, a civil war, a hyper active computer virus, oh.. and ancient aliens... what does that leave? What hasn't been done yet?Another way to look at it... when people say they want something new, maybe its that they want an alternative. If that's a case an alternative to what? What do you have in OTU that doesn't have an alternative of some kind. What I mean is... if you don't like the 3I, is there an alternative to that? Has that alternative been developed in any way?
Just some thoughts.
I’m not sure I agree with the original sentiment: there is much of the OTU I still don’t know. Parts of the Outrim Void are still undetailed, there’s the Hiver/K’Kree wars, the Julian Wars, what’s spinward of the Solomani Rim? And even with the great efforts of Chris Lineham the Zhodani Core Route expeditions were only lightly covered (and that’s now AWOL). As for life within the 3I … what (for example) is the organisational structure of the Ministry of Colonisation? What’s its agenda, resources, and modus operandi? The questions go on and on.
And as robject pointed out, short of making rules changes it’s hard to see what different types of adventure couldn’t fit into the OTU somewhere.
Personally I only play Traveller for the OTU setting. Until recently I bought anything that had “Traveller” on the cover. Now that MgT are producing alternative settings that’s no longer true.
Long live the OTU. Long live the 3I.
And as robject pointed out, short of making rules changes it’s hard to see what different types of adventure couldn’t fit into the OTU somewhere.
Personally I only play Traveller for the OTU setting. Until recently I bought anything that had “Traveller” on the cover. Now that MgT are producing alternative settings that’s no longer true.
Long live the OTU. Long live the 3I.
I have also enjoyed the 3I setting. But the Traveller system was originally meant to be used for gm's to create their own. Of course GDW made money on the 3I. But what if they had a setting just in one planetary system or hell just one planet?
There was a series of books by Piers Athony(I think) set in our solar system. The 'Tyrant' series. It ran about 6-7 books. No aliens, no ftl drive, just one man's life until he ruled everything.
Or what if they had done an espionage or horror game with the system?
I feel the original system could have been better used if they had done more with it.
There was a series of books by Piers Athony(I think) set in our solar system. The 'Tyrant' series. It ran about 6-7 books. No aliens, no ftl drive, just one man's life until he ruled everything.
Or what if they had done an espionage or horror game with the system?
I feel the original system could have been better used if they had done more with it.
Bio of a Space Tyrant. Piers Anthony.
BardicHeart
SOC-12
I haven't read that in ages. An by ages I mean not since High School. Which was over.... okay thanks for making me feel old. 
o:
Good series though.
o:Good series though.
I haven't read that in ages. An by ages I mean not since High School. Which was over.... okay thanks for making me feel old.
Good series though.
Yes a good series. Set in our solar system. A good example of space adventure without ftl drive. We forget how big a system can be.
Also you probably just graduated from high school last year. All you kids have ADD. ;-)
Just to add fuel and feed the Zombie thread.
Someone else mentioned, and I think it's relevant, that there's two kinds of Canon. I'd say it's three kinds.
1) The rules. The rules are the physics of the game. Making things that "break the rules", breaks the physics. Obviously a complication over time is that the rules changed, and thus the foundations changed.
2) The technology. These are the rules made concrete in devices: ships, guns, vehicles, etc. Obviously there are several Traveller archetype technologies: Jump drive, Free Trader, Gauss Rifle, FGMPs. To me, those techs shout out "Traveller".
3) The political. The Imperium and its effect.
In theory they're all separate, but in reality they're all related. A glaring relationship is how much the Imperium is based on the Jump drive. How much would the Imperium be different with Stargates, or with Stutterwarp. The whole system is based on the speed of information, and the speed of action/reaction.
Consider FF&S and it's mention of Stutterwarp. It also mentions the changes necessary to Combat if a "normal" ship were to fight a Stutterwarp ship. But really, it's only a paragraph with some guidelines. Hardly a complete treatment of how the interactions work. And that's at a technical scale.
Now imagine the political side if a new power were to arise a deploy SW capable ships against a conventional fleet. I think the results would be rather ugly.
So, technologies have political realities as they enable or hinder the projection of power, and the polities will build themselves around these technologies.
Traveller for me has been the gear and the Imperium. Intertwined. While T5 can be generic, "sans background", then what does it offer the market place? Just more mechanics. GURPs v27.3.
If T5 came out with a set of mechanics and a gear set (FF&S v5), and then came out with an Imperial source book, and then all of the following adventures are written against that Imperial source book (because that's what the author(s) decide to do), how is that really different from what we have already?
We already have generic mechanics. Point a gun at a character and pull the trigger, and X happens. Build a ship like this, it costs X many Simoleons, goes Y fast, and weighs Z decaBleems.
Many an "Amber Zone" can be written on "some faraway planet", etc. TNE repainted everything with huge brush, waiting for players and refs to fill in the gaps.
If T5 comes out just a set of how dice throws are interpreted, I think it will miss out. Folks need more help than that, especially starting out. If T5 supports more than one "setting", then you get N settings lightly fleshed out rather than one setting well detailed.
I like the Imperium Redux. Imperium 2.0, Imperium Prime. A Canonical book about the Imperium, cleaned up, made more consistent. I'm also comfortable with that being a "place in time". Stable, not necessarily stagnant. I think TNE had the right idea here. Stable, old school, "same as it ever was" Regency. New, budding, rebooting from the ground up Coalition, and, literally, the Wild Wild West. The frontier. Anything goes.
Those are good, wide brushes that can be filled in by authors of all scales. As a control, keep the scenarios more limited. Don't get the players involved in galactic politics. They can work their corner of the galaxy, but keep the "canon" out of the larger landscape. As I said, stable, but not stagnant. Many a generation has lived exciting times under a detached higher authority, a King they don't elect, and have no direct affect upon, etc.
Someone else mentioned, and I think it's relevant, that there's two kinds of Canon. I'd say it's three kinds.
1) The rules. The rules are the physics of the game. Making things that "break the rules", breaks the physics. Obviously a complication over time is that the rules changed, and thus the foundations changed.
2) The technology. These are the rules made concrete in devices: ships, guns, vehicles, etc. Obviously there are several Traveller archetype technologies: Jump drive, Free Trader, Gauss Rifle, FGMPs. To me, those techs shout out "Traveller".
3) The political. The Imperium and its effect.
In theory they're all separate, but in reality they're all related. A glaring relationship is how much the Imperium is based on the Jump drive. How much would the Imperium be different with Stargates, or with Stutterwarp. The whole system is based on the speed of information, and the speed of action/reaction.
Consider FF&S and it's mention of Stutterwarp. It also mentions the changes necessary to Combat if a "normal" ship were to fight a Stutterwarp ship. But really, it's only a paragraph with some guidelines. Hardly a complete treatment of how the interactions work. And that's at a technical scale.
Now imagine the political side if a new power were to arise a deploy SW capable ships against a conventional fleet. I think the results would be rather ugly.
So, technologies have political realities as they enable or hinder the projection of power, and the polities will build themselves around these technologies.
Traveller for me has been the gear and the Imperium. Intertwined. While T5 can be generic, "sans background", then what does it offer the market place? Just more mechanics. GURPs v27.3.
If T5 came out with a set of mechanics and a gear set (FF&S v5), and then came out with an Imperial source book, and then all of the following adventures are written against that Imperial source book (because that's what the author(s) decide to do), how is that really different from what we have already?
We already have generic mechanics. Point a gun at a character and pull the trigger, and X happens. Build a ship like this, it costs X many Simoleons, goes Y fast, and weighs Z decaBleems.
Many an "Amber Zone" can be written on "some faraway planet", etc. TNE repainted everything with huge brush, waiting for players and refs to fill in the gaps.
If T5 comes out just a set of how dice throws are interpreted, I think it will miss out. Folks need more help than that, especially starting out. If T5 supports more than one "setting", then you get N settings lightly fleshed out rather than one setting well detailed.
I like the Imperium Redux. Imperium 2.0, Imperium Prime. A Canonical book about the Imperium, cleaned up, made more consistent. I'm also comfortable with that being a "place in time". Stable, not necessarily stagnant. I think TNE had the right idea here. Stable, old school, "same as it ever was" Regency. New, budding, rebooting from the ground up Coalition, and, literally, the Wild Wild West. The frontier. Anything goes.
Those are good, wide brushes that can be filled in by authors of all scales. As a control, keep the scenarios more limited. Don't get the players involved in galactic politics. They can work their corner of the galaxy, but keep the "canon" out of the larger landscape. As I said, stable, but not stagnant. Many a generation has lived exciting times under a detached higher authority, a King they don't elect, and have no direct affect upon, etc.
I'm not sure I understand this thread. Traveller has always been a vanilla flavored RPG, and intentionally so. Trek's Federation? You got it. SW's Evil Galactic Empire? It's there. Earth II? Already set. Logan's Run? Just tailor the city to your heart's content.
I think the official canon stuff is interesting, and is certainly more fleshed out in the GURPS' T-books than anyplace else. My little .02Imp.-cr says that if you want the official Imperium and all of it's milieu in various iterations, then just mine the GT books, or other already available source material. Otherwise make up your own "multi-verse", whatever they may be.
I think sticking with generic stuff is the way to go. Specifying too much will narrow the scope of the game, and its original intent.
I think the official canon stuff is interesting, and is certainly more fleshed out in the GURPS' T-books than anyplace else. My little .02Imp.-cr says that if you want the official Imperium and all of it's milieu in various iterations, then just mine the GT books, or other already available source material. Otherwise make up your own "multi-verse", whatever they may be.
I think sticking with generic stuff is the way to go. Specifying too much will narrow the scope of the game, and its original intent.
