Modified HG Combat Sequence.

[Ptah]

The following is a modified version of HG combat initially created to provide multiple ranges. As an initial post I have kept this as generic as possible so that whatever resolution mechanics you use can be inserted. I do expand on the Escort Penetration step somewhat.

This combat sequence is very much wargame inspired with attention to the move-fire-move issues of wargames. Initiative and the active or inactivation of units plays a role. A detailed play sequence is provided to give an example.

Fundamental Aspects

A. Combat Map
Map is divided into range bands. For each player within each range band are two zones: (1) Force; and (2) Escort.

B. Reserves
Three alternatives are presented.
Alternative 1: Are stationed in any Force box behind the line.
Alternative 2: Are stationed in a Reserve Box that extends over three range bands.
Alternative 3: No reserves per se, reserves are just your ships you keep out of the fight.

C. Overview of Combat Resolution Sequence

(0) Detection
(1) Initiative
(2) Pre-Fire
(3) Designate Zones
(4) Jump Entrance / Emergence
(5) Launch
(6) Movement
(7) Damage Control and Medical
(8) Missile Resolution
(9) Turret & Bay Weapon Fire
(10) Escort Penetration
(11) Boarding Actions
(12) Spinal Weapon Fire
(13) Breakthrough (if Reserves used)

D. Detailed Example of Combat Resolution Sequence

*"Turned-over" units are considered inactive units and cannot act during a resolution step.

(0) Detection

(1) Initiative, Form Attack Groups & Options
Side without strategic initiative forms all attack groups first.
Side with tactical initiative selects Pre-Fire OR Movement Control.
edit OPTIONS
Declare Emergency Agility, side without tactical initiative declares first shipt then alternate. Flip-over units declaring and mark with token. (I would not allow a ship with emergency agility to engage in missile combat)
Declare Black Globe, player without strategic initiative chooses first ship then alternate.


(2) Pre-Fire (at option of side with Pre-Fire Control Option)
Turn-over units that pre-fire and return pre-fire.
Only turret & bay weapons may pre-fire.

(3) Designate Zones
Choose Force, Escort or Reserve zone.
(Turned-over units may not change zones.)

(4) Jump Entrance / Emergence
*Ships emerge into Force zone, no attack groups can be formed from emerging ships.
Flip all units face up.

(5) Launch & Form Attack Groups
Form attack groups from launched ships.
Turn-over missile and ships launching without launchers.
Turn-over launched craft & ship launching without Launch Tubes.

(6) Movement
Side without Movement Control Option moves all ships first.
Turn-over ships that move.

(7) Damage Control and Medical
Attempt Damage Control and Medical.
Turn-over ships that attempt.
Flip all units face up.
Attempt Damage Control and Medical.
Turn-over ships that attempt.
Flip all units face up.

(8) Missile Resolution
Defender presents attack group for attack by missiles.
Allocate salvos in range.
Screen fire by ships in Escort Box.
Turn-over units that screen fire.
Attacker option to attack ships that screen fire
(@ auto-lock and +n hit)
Target ship defensive fire.
Fire point defense weapons
Fire non-point defense weapons (optional)
Turn-over IF non-point weapons used in defensive fire.
REPEAT until all salvos in range gone.
(Unallocated in range salvos are lost)

(9) Turret & Bay Weapon Fire
Player with initiative, A, chooses Force Box attack group.
A attacks any desired ship of other player.
Turn-over A attack group.
D’s attacked ships can counter-attack A’s attack group (optional)
Turn-over D attack-group if it counter-attacks.
REPEAT alternating between players.
Apply Damage.

(10) Escort Penetration
Flip all non-enemy units in Escort Box face up.
Enemy ships in Escort Box may try to reach Force Box

Escort Intercept:
Roll Over on 2D6
N – diff. in agility – diff. TL + odds mod.
Odds Mod. (3-on-1) +4
(2-on-1) +2
(1-on-2) -2
(1-on-3) -4

IF Intercept Successful, Escort attacks Enemy.
Note Damage.

IF Enemy proceeds to Force Box.
Apply Damage.
Escort attacks enemy.
Apply Damage.

IF Enemy engages escort.
Enemy counter-attack.
Turn-over enemy.
Apply Damage.

Turn-over escort ships that attempt intercept.

Enemy units in Force Box may attack unit in Force Box.
Missile Attacks, auto-hit, point defense permitted.
Turret Weapon Attack. (Counter-attack not permitted.)
Turn-over attacking enemy ships.

Flip all units face up.

(11) Boarding Actions
Boarding Resolution
Turn-over ships that use “all hands” to repel.

Boarding Attempts
Turn-over ships that attempt.
Turn-over ships that use “all hands” to repel.

(12) Spinal Fire
Player without tactical initiative, D, presents ship for attack.
A attacks D ship with spinal weapons.
Note Damage.
Turn-over A attacking ships.
Player with tactical initiative, A, presents ship for attack.
D attacks A ship with spinal weapons.
Note Damage.
Turn-over D attacking ships.
Apply Damage
REPEAT until all ships presented
Note: damage is Applied before all ships have fired.

(13) Breakthrough to Reserves

 

[The Oz]

I'll look at this and get back to you. I like it, at first glance.

 

[mike wightman]

Ptah, sorry for not replying sooner.

There are lots of good ideas in here.

It may take a little while to get used to the new turn structure

How long does it usually take to play out once you are familiar with the sequence?

Do you usually use any other markers or play aids to help things along?

 

[Ptah]

Sigg, was about to launch into some answers on these questions, but our internet connectioon is aboout to go down. In short, a storm knocked down a tree here and its now on top of the live power lines with the cable intertwined. All will be disconnected soon, no idea when it will be back up but will try to post from work tomorrow..

 

[RainOfSteel]

What about breakaway and Emergency Agility decisions?

Where do they fall?

 

[Whipsnade]

Ptah,

Why are boarding and damage control located in the sequence where they are?

You board before you fire?

Why does damage control occur in the middle of the turn?

Why does combat occur last?


Have fun,
Bill

 

[Ptah]

OK, we still have cable and power. The cable guy decided not to touch, or create, a potentially live line. So some time to answer questions. I'll get to Siggs then the others. Please note I will make a few edits to the original post when done.

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Ptah, sorry for not replying sooner.

There are lots of good ideas in here.

It may take a little while to get used to the new turn structure

How long does it usually take to play out once you are familiar with the sequence?

Do you usually use any other markers or play aids to help things along?

I’ve only been able to test this in solitaire play, so I guess that’s about as fast as it can get. Using about a half dozen “attack groups” on a side I can run through a turn at about 1-2 min per “attack group”. Including beer drinking and consumption of salty snacks. This is probably fast, as I used to play a lot of wargames and speed chess, so I don’t dally over my moves. This also includes several rule modifications that speed play. If following pure HG, probably 2-3 x times as long as it would take you to play HG. That doesn't bother me since I'm aiming for a wargame.

The big play aids are ship cards with boxes for screen, weapon etc. factors with mark off boxes for hits. This is also how I keep track of missiles. I use a “/” to note damage then complete the “X” when damage is applied. I actually get about 2 big ships per A4 or letter size sheet, and 4-6 fighter squadrons.

I use a counter for each ship (nothing fancy just a home made one with a type and id number, like BB-1, BB-2 etc.). I also use a counter for each missile.

Now with BeRKAs fine counter-creator I will note movement, agility and TL, as these are stats used on board (movement) and in escort penetration (agility, TL). Now no need to ask you opponent this information to formulate your strategy or look down at your ship card. Those numbers will tell you how fast they can close or run and how hard they are to intercept.


Here’s a somewhat more detailed breakdown on turn length consideration; together with the rational, game-play goal, I’m aiming for, and errata:

(0) Detection
Nothing happens until this occurs, so it is really a pre-combat step.

(1) Initiative
Simple die roll modified by skill, one roll for strategic, another for tactical.

(2) Pre-Fire
This step is not necessarily used every turn, rather it is normally used when:
(a) you have worse drives than your opponent so want to strike before they get out of range;
(b) you fear them jumping away; and/or
(c) you fear their fighters or missiles as damage is applied at the end of this step (edit made above in bold) .
This was instigated so the player with initiative had the option of firing at a given range before movement potentially changed that range. Common wargame stuff. A ship that pre-fires will have to skip steps (3) and (4), so no running or moving to reserves if you have them.
This step is often skipped if you have better drives than your opposition
If you use HG mechanics, this step will be the length of a HG turn minus missile and spinal fire.

(3) Designate Zones
For me, this is a very fast step, seconds.

(4) Jump Entrance / Emergence
A very fast step, seconds per ship jumping.
The placement of this step determines how you view the readiness of ships emerging from jump and how easy you want it to be to retreat. The step is placed after (2) so a player with initiative can get a shot before retreat. This step (4) is placed before (5) b/c I like the idea of jumping in an launching and more importantly to require a carrier to go through steps (6)-(13) if it wants to recover launched craft then jump. One could always split launch and recovery to make things more (e.g., recover-jump-launch) or less favorable (e.g., launch-jump-recover).
At the end of this step flip all units face up so all units ready to act in the next step.

(5) Launch
A pretty fast step as well, since it involves only placing or removing a marker from the board. If the ship launches from external racks or launch bays (in my approach much cheaper and taking much less space) these ships won’t get to act until half way through step (7).
With respect to “attack groups” I have the stats for fighter groups pre-noted so it takes no time to form them. Attack group values are also easy to calculate on the fly with my weapon factor approach. I use a power of 2 scale. For example, 1 weapon = factor-1; 2 weapons= factor-2; 4 weapons = factor-3. So by “simple” geometric math, 1+1=2, 2+2=3, 3+3=4, 1+2=2, 2+3=3, 1+1+2=3. TL advantage is accounted for in a different way than HG, but can produce the same results in the end on a tons-per-factor basis.

(6) Movement
This takes seconds per ship and missile. Missiles can move in this step if active (errata #1edit made above in bold).
Requiring one side to move first greatly speed combat IMHO. From my experience with wargames simultaneous movement greatly slows play although it is more realistic. The idea of pre-fire compensates some for non-simultaneous movement in wargames. Hence, here if you have initiative you can choose either to have a pre-fire phase or to move last, but not both.
G’s equal number of range bands change, there are 100 range bands in my personal approach. This dovetails with my strategic scale aspect, where the hex is 100 times a tactical combat hex scale.

(7) Damage Control and Medical
This step actually takes a little time to consider what to fix. But 2 simple rolls per ship, one for engineering and one for crew (if you have a sick-bay in my approach).
Basically, if you do not move or launch without tubes or launchers, you get 2 damage control rolls each for ship and crew.

(8) Missile Resolution
This step can take a long time (basically the time of a normal HG combat step) if you allow multiple rolls per ship per weapon type. I use a different approach to avoid this. A ship defensive firing must group all its weapons of a given type into a single factor. Defensive fire is then an active “attack” instead of a penetration roll. This weapon then attacks the missile in a range band and can do hits equal to its factor. For example, a factor-4 laser could take out 8 factor-1 missile salvos.
To place it more on a footing with the HG penetration roll, I would have the attacker group all missile salvos into one factor and then group all active defense factors into one factor and roll against that.
Screen fire really doesn’t take too long.
What I’m trying to avoid is the 100 separate rolls from 100 missile-1’s and the 200 separate rolls to penetrate 200 sandcaster-1’s. I’m also trying to avoid using odds tables. I’d rather have a mechanic that favors grouping; or rather one that doesn’t provide an advantage to conduct lots of little attacks. This is certainly based on my view of tactical combat: lasers etc. fire at least once per second so in my typical combat round (12.9 minutes) there is ample time to fire on and acquire multiple targets.

(9) Turret & Bay Weapon Fire
This step takes the longest time as I allow a single ship to attack multiple targets, I still require grouping of weapon types on the ship attacked.
On review of the “official” sub-sequence, I realize in solitaire play I never followed this. It was always A does all attacks then D does all attacks, apply damage. Since damage is applied after all attacks order doesn’t matter. errata #2 Edit has been made to remove over-complication.
Players that fired in this step won’t get a chance to penetrate the escort in step (10) but they can still be fired on.

(10) Escort Penetration
One roll per escort “attack group” so this part very quick. Then up to two attack rolls. I limit the weapons types and mounts that can be used in this role.

(11) Boarding Actions
Haven’t conducted one of these, but this where it will happen since the boarding ship needs to penetrate the escort.

(12) Spinal Weapon Fire
The sub-sequence looks complicated but it is really just I fire and apply damage, you fire and apply damage, etc.
This step is placed near the end as I envision spinal fire to be 1 shot per turn. These massive weapons (for your TL) build up energy and release it in one shot. In addition, I still like spinals as deadly weapons but with a chance to silence them before they fire.

(13) Breakthrough (if Reserves used)
Haven’t played with reserves but I think I will. Breakthrough of the Force Box uses the same conditions as in HG.

 

[Ptah]

Originally posted by RainOfSteel:
What about breakaway and Emergency Agility decisions?

Where do they fall?

Breakaway can occur two ways (1) if the ship moves off of the map (this actuallly moves them tothe next strategic scale hex in my system). Then it becomes a matter of pursuit until they are in weapons range again (so not as abstracted as HG tow range band approach) and (2) by jumping away step (4).

Emergency Agility would fall under step (1) under options. errata #3I'll add it in.

Black globe declarations would also be made in step (1), I would make the player without strategic initiative choose first then alternate. errata #4I'll add it in.

 

[Ptah]

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:
Ptah,

Why are boarding and damage control located in the sequence where they are?

You board before you fire?

Why does damage control occur in the middle of the turn?

Why does combat occur last?


Have fun,
Bill

Boarding is located after escort penetration as escort penetration is required for the boarding ship to reach a ship in the Force Box. A boarding ship can also reach a ship in the Escort Box. Additional reasons, I wanted escort ships to be able to engage in there duties and still repel with all hands. I wanted boarding parties to have the potential to disrupt spinal weapon fire (probably wouldn't happen the first turn unless one used "all hands" to repel as I use a abstract region/zone concept of the ship and the boarding party fights (in the abstract) towards a zone))

SInce I'm allowing damage controll and medical on ships outside the Reserve I wanted a way for damage from one round to carry over to the next andf this can be moved depending on what activity you want to be harder to repair. I wanted damage to jump engines, launch capability and drives to be harder to repair. That is, yoiu do not get a chance to repair them between damage application and the next time you need to use them. There are three other primary reasons: (1) I did not want to take away a part of the Pre-Fire advantage with respect to movement (i.e. you may damage drives so thereby gain in the Movement step); (2) I wanted damage from the last round to effect Pre-Fire so reapair was placed after pre-fire; and (3) I wanted a mechanism to provide an extra repair roll, hence I went with placing repair after steps (5) and (6) so you can trade certain actions in (5) and (6) for an extra repair roll. This results in trading movement, which was an attempt to somewhat reflect the HG requirement of being in the reserve to repair.

I placed boarding before firing your spinal so there is a chance this can stop a spinal weapon. All other ship combat occurs before boarding. (I had role-playing in mind for this one as well, the old super-spinal weapon threatens innocents, PC Marines board and figth to disable before fired.)

Under pure HG, I don't think you can board if the spinal is still working, but I may be wrong on this.

Boarding resolution comes before boarding attempts. My view is first you need to get on board (suceed in the attempt) next turn you'll get a chance to fight your way to the next zone of the ship. I view boarding as very hard against a prepared warship. I should note a HG variation I use, I don't require all weapons to be dead to board or all drives to be zero (you do need superior drives and agility and be smaller if the ship can move). However, I do make the modifiers such that point defense weapons/turrets on a ship pretty much auto-hit something the size of a boarding vessel on its final approach and do extra damage. My thinking is that unlike contact missile, the boarding ship needs to come somewhat close in matching velocity even if grappnels are used to match rotational rate, etc. and pull the ship in. This all making it much easier to hit and hurt.

I view spinal weapon fire as one shot during the entire combat turn as compared to many-many shots of the lighter weapons so I wanted to give other weapons in steps (2), (8) and (9) a chance to reduce the spinal, as well as give ships penetrating the escort a chance. This is a personal design choice and it does weaken spinals. An approach closer to HG would place spinal fire in step (9) and it would fire as any other weapon.

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by Ptah:
Under pure HG, I don't think you can board if the spinal is still working, but I may be wrong on this.

Ptah,

You've remembered correctly.

In HG2 before a vessel can be boarded it must be disabled; no maneuver drive or powerplant left and no offensive weapons, and it can't be protected by any friendly ships.

The last bit occurs when a player decides to abandon a ship by choosing to open the range from 'short' to 'long' or by jumping away.

All of this really flows from the HG2's limited movement system; short, long, emergency agility, etc. It's very abstract because of that.

Mayday lets you board if you match vectors; which of course requires that the target vessel no longer be able to change it's vector. The weapon requirement is moot, if your ship or small craft can withstand the hits from the target vessel then board away!

I can understand your desire to allow a boarding party to prevent spinal weapons fire; it's a nice role-playing touch, but your players are going to ask why they can't board to prevent missile fire, laser fire, sandcasters, etc. too.

As a wargamer, I want boarding to be tough. The physical nature of an OTU space battle reuires that. Traveller ships engage at multiple light second ranges on differing vectors at accelerations measured up to 6gees. Sending a cutter full of marines to board an opposing ship should take time and careful planning, just matching vectors will take lots of time.

However, as a roleplayer, I'd like to see more boarding actions because it means more chances to role-play!

Balancing those two desires is tough, but it looks like you're off to a good start!


Have fun,
Bill

 

[Ptah]

Thanks Bill,
I agree that much flows from HG's limited movement system, and I think GDW did a great job of making the two range + reserve abstraction work.
I probably didn't really realize this until I tried to modify it.

On the role-playing front, why of course your disabling lasers (next turn's laser shots . My off the cuff role playing answer is boarding takes time, but the easiest weapon system to disrupt is the spinal mount, so that is the one you might take out first.

I agree that matching vectors makes it very tough. I use Mayday like movement within at a more strategic turn scale on top of the combat sequence. Movement at this scale has a vector matching component to help simulate this.

Even if you lock onto the hull, I wouldn't want to be the first Marine through the door.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Why would any Marine be the first one through the hatch? That's Robbie's job! Or, at worst, a single armored hand tossing grenades each way down the passageway....

 

[Ptah]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
Why would any Marine be the first one through the hatch? That's Robbie's job! Or, at worst, a single armored hand tossing grenades each way down the passageway....

I've always been partial to the concept that a boarding shuttle has a special hatch gun (basically a squad scale weapon) that clears the passage then pivots up out of the way. Then we send in the drones...Robbie can come to.