Misjumps and Scouts

[Hal]

Hello Folks,
I figured I'd hit you all with the question as outlined in the topic line...

Why do Scout ships have an easier time handling misjumps?

As the table shows - scoutships gain a -2 Bonus roll against the Misjump table. If they are jumping within 100 planetary diameters, and they are not hit with the penalty for use of unrefined fuel, the odds of a misjump occuring are:

2d6+5-2 or at worst case scenario: 12+5-2 or 15.
Naval ships have a worst case scenario of 16, while civilian ships have a worst case scenario of a 17. This means that scout ships NEVER suffer a destroyed in misjump event, while 1 in 36 naval ships end up destroyed in mis-jump, while 1 in 18 civilian ships are destroyed in misjump.

I'm wondering "Why"?

What is it about scout ships that make them that much more resistant to misjump effects? Why didn't HIGH GUARD make that element part of the ship building process? In other words, is it the Jump Engines that make scouts that much more resistant in mis-jump circumstances? Is it the computer program they run that does this? How does one buy a military grade ship used, and then value the "feature" that their ship now has that ordinary civilian built ships do not have?

Don't ya love a person who asks dumb questions?

 

[Andrew Boulton]

It's just one of the early-CT quirks that were later dropped.

 

[far-trader]

Because Scouts do "it" better

Actually the way I have it figured is thusly*:

Scout ships: Normally DM -1 per missing engineer cancelled because the Type S doesn't need one and DM -1 for unrefined fuel cancelled because the Type S has purifiers. This translates to the blanket DM +2 for Scout ships in CT B2.

Navy ships: DM -1 for unrefined fuel cancelled because all Navy ships have purifiers. This translates to the blanket DM +1 for Navy ships in CT B2.

One implication may be that NO civilian ships are allowed purifiers and the powers that be control the technology to maintain the monopoly on the price of refined fuel at starports.

* which I see now must have been part house rule derived since misjump chance doesn't factor Engineers or maintenance.

 

[Malenfant]

One could argue that scout ships have a higher quality astrogation database (due to the nature of the work they do)? But you're right, if you have the tech to avoid a misjump then every ship should have it too.

 

[kaladorn]

You'd think it would involve said astrogation database (and why wouldn't they be forced to share it with the Navy and civilians if it made things safer?) and also better sensor suites. With that, you could justify the DMs. But they anyone who got the better DB and the better sensors should get the mod, yes?

 

[Pickles]

I could see the imperium keeping back it's best level of astrogation detail from public consumption, just as the major powers on Earth do today.

"Information's the name of the game, and you can't win the game if you're a man short."

 

[Malenfant]

I dunno, it's not like holding back super-accurate GPS data that the military satellites on Earth kills thousands of people (if not more) and destroys billions of dollars of cargo per year. But that would be the case given that a full 5.6% (1 in 18) of all civilian shipping is destroyed because of withholding that information, that makes that sort of thing a LOT harder to justify.

That said, I guess Hal was talking about worst case scenario - remind me what are the stats for just normal usage of jump drive (i.e. beyond 100 diameters, using refined fuel etc)?

 

[far-trader]

In normal usage there is zero chance for misjump in CT. Roll 2d6 and misjump only on a result of 13+. So the only way to misjump is to apply penalties in the way of DMs for using unrefined fuel, and/or initiating jump within 100D. I don't see how Navigation applies. Unless one imagines the Scouts and Navy are the only ones who can find 100D

Oh, and I goofed earlier on the Engineering DM, that only applies to the general drive failure check. Must have been a house rule that applied all DMs to all drive failures including misjumps. So I guess I don't know why Scouts do it better in the OTU

 

[kaladorn]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
I dunno, it's not like holding back super-accurate GPS data that the military satellites on Earth kills thousands of people (if not more) and destroys billions of dollars of cargo per year. But that would be the case given that a full 5.6% (1 in 18) of all civilian shipping is destroyed because of withholding that information, that makes that sort of thing a LOT harder to justify.

My point exactly. And more importantly, even if they started out to keep this data private, nothing precludes better survey data from private sources getting out (at least of the civilized systems) and you know someone would compile it and sell it to merchant captains. Also, lawyers might get in the Imperium's face with that whole 'significant impact' (even if it was 0.5%!) aspect. And we can add the fact that in the modern day, civilian GPS systems that want to spend the money can be as accurate as military grade (I believe) and good hi-res imagery of the ground is available from non-governmental channels. So trying to keep Pandora in the box ain't workin'...

 

[Icosahedron]

Originally posted by far-trader:

So I guess I don't know why Scouts do it better in the OTU

"The Force is strong in these people. This is why they 'chose' the lifepath of Scout, my son."

 

[Golan2072]

Originally posted by far-trader:
In normal usage there is zero chance for misjump in CT. Roll 2d6 and misjump only on a result of 13+. So the only way to misjump is to apply penalties in the way of DMs for using unrefined fuel, and/or initiating jump within 100D.

This is a very important point - a ship operating under standard safety regulations (refined fuel and jumping beyond 100 planetary diameters) will NEVER misjump under CT-LBB2 rules. Ships using refined fuel are not going to risk a ship-destroying misjump even if they jump within 10-100 diameters. So I guess that LBB2 naval/scout vessels should be more expensive to make than civilian ones, as they'd probably have extra hardening on their drive in order to allow for emergency jumps close to planets.

Sure, civilians could have refineries as well, but if you're a small merchant operating within a reasonably civilized area of space, you'll be wasting mony and cargo space on it.

All in all, I agree with Andrew Boulton - this is an artifact of proto-traveller that was apparantly dropped later on, when Hg came out; otrwise we'd have different civilian and military drives.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Icosahedron:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by far-trader:

So I guess I don't know why Scouts do it better in the OTU

"The Force is strong in these people. This is why they 'chose' the lifepath of Scout, my son."

</font>[/QUOTE]But they burn witches in the OTU!

I was thinking about this again last night after posting. The psionic angle is interesting, but it's not really the Scouts that gain the bonus, but the Scout service (ships). It makes little enough sense in B2, and less so after HG.

I suspect the real reason was so my DD Scout could abuse the heck out of that old Type S without blowing himself up. And I did sooo abuse that little ship

Always skimming my own unrefined fuel, never waiting for 100D, even jumping as early as orbit to avoid exchanging pleasantries with those annoying Guild Traders

Oh I misjumped lots. It's a great way to travel when you have no destination and just a need to see what's out there, that-a-way, no matter where that is. And she never once blew up

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Employee 2-4601:
So I guess that LBB2 naval/scout vessels should be more expensive to make than civilian ones...

Should be but aren't. Should cost more for that included military sensor suite too but it doesn't. They must get an extra discount, not shown in the design steps, that evens out the extras.

Originally posted by Employee 2-4601:
Sure, civilians could have refineries as well, but if you're a small merchant operating within a reasonably civilized area of space, you'll be wasting mony and cargo space on it.

Actually, with the HG purifiers once the minimum size is small enough it does pay to have one, even if you buy the unrefined fuel at port. The break-even on buying unrefined fuel is with a TL10 purifier. Anything after that TL or if skimming free fuel pays dividends. And that is for a J1 200ton ship, anything bigger or with longer legs saves even more.

Originally posted by Employee 2-4601:
All in all, I agree with Andrew Boulton - this is an artifact of proto-traveller that was apparantly dropped later on, when Hg came out; otrwise we'd have different civilian and military drives.

I disagree. As I read it the earlier rules are not superceded, HG designs still roll for misjump the same way. The B2 note about "if using unrefined fuel (and not equipped to do so)" certainly hints at the purifiers in HG. In B2 all military ships seem to be so equipped by virtue of the extra DM which implies purifiers are standard to the B2 drives for military ships. It's the fact that B2 design is simplified (and different) and ignores the differences in the drive cost and size (as well as the sensor differences which aren't addressed in HG at all) that leads to confusion I think.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

The modifier isn't present in later rulebooks.

 

[far-trader]

Post CT/CT+ everything changes

Some maybe even for the better The only point I was disputing above was that HG and B2 are not the same universe.