Within the OTU, are there any minerals, gems, or ores that have great value to high TL societies that may be considered worthless by low TL people. Since Traveller uses fusion, dilithium crystals are right out. I want to set an adventure with a mining company securing rights to a lode of something on a low tech planet that the inhabitants don't value as precious. Any advice would be appreciated.
Minerals valuable to high TLs only??
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M
Malenfant
Guest
"zuchai crystals" are supposed to be used in jump drives. I have no idea what they're actually supposed to be (presumably they are a crystalline compound of some elements in the periodic table...), or even if they're canonical since they might have been introduced by DGP.
Lanthanum is the obvious important element in the OTU, since it is used to make the jump grid (I dunno if it's coincidental, but it is a good 'sponge' for hydrogen) - the problem is that (a) it's a very rare element and (b) doesn't occur in anything so convenient as veins or geodes or other such concentrations (and that would be the same all over the universe - unless you change the universal laws of physics and chemistry). Lanthanum is always found in small amounts, always in mineral form and almost always mixed up with other lanthanides, and most likely in the crusts of larger planets.
See this page for more details.
Lanthanum is the obvious important element in the OTU, since it is used to make the jump grid (I dunno if it's coincidental, but it is a good 'sponge' for hydrogen) - the problem is that (a) it's a very rare element and (b) doesn't occur in anything so convenient as veins or geodes or other such concentrations (and that would be the same all over the universe - unless you change the universal laws of physics and chemistry). Lanthanum is always found in small amounts, always in mineral form and almost always mixed up with other lanthanides, and most likely in the crusts of larger planets.
See this page for more details.
Lanthanum, hmm... The website says,"...Lanthanum is found in the ores monazite sand [(Ce, La, etc.)PO4] and bastn°site [(Ce, La, etc.)(CO3)F], ores containing small amounts of all the rare earth metals." Maybe I can say that there is a deposit of monazite sand in a stretch of desert or wasteland. Also, what's DGP??
I think zuchai crystals are OTU, as they are supposedly mentioned in Adventure 4: Leviathan (ADV-4), at least according to the Traveller Library site
I think zuchai crystals are OTU, as they are supposedly mentioned in Adventure 4: Leviathan (ADV-4), at least according to the Traveller Library site
M
Malenfant
Guest
Oh. DGP = Digest Group Publications. Publishers of Megatraveller stuff, now decanonised because of legal dispute between Marc Miller and Roger Sanger (who now owns the rights to that material). Joe Fugate is now on these boards, he used to run the company, go see the MT board for details.
As for monazite:
http://mineral.galleries.com/minerals/phosphat/monazite/monazite.htm
Hey, it's radioactive too!
It forms in "phospatic pegmatites". IIRC that means it forms when deep underground magma chambers full of molten rock that have a lot of water (and in this case phosphates) in them cool down very slowly - the slow cooling causes the crystals that form to grow quite large, but the water in the magma causes the crystals to grow even bigger than usual as the magma solidifies.
Eventually, this gets uplifted and eroded, and then you get your monazite sand - assuming that the magma chamber that formed it had the right composition in the first place.
So if you don't get uplift and erosion, you don't get your monazite being exposed on the surface and eroded, which makes it about a zillion times harder to find it since it's buried in a magma chamber a few km below the crust that's very hard to find.
Net result - you'll probably find Lanthanum on large, tectonically active worlds, and not on small, dead rockballs.
(if you want to do it realistically, that is. You could, alternatively say that there are mountains of pur lanthanum on some wacky world or other
)
As for monazite:
http://mineral.galleries.com/minerals/phosphat/monazite/monazite.htm
Hey, it's radioactive too!
It forms in "phospatic pegmatites". IIRC that means it forms when deep underground magma chambers full of molten rock that have a lot of water (and in this case phosphates) in them cool down very slowly - the slow cooling causes the crystals that form to grow quite large, but the water in the magma causes the crystals to grow even bigger than usual as the magma solidifies.
Eventually, this gets uplifted and eroded, and then you get your monazite sand - assuming that the magma chamber that formed it had the right composition in the first place.
So if you don't get uplift and erosion, you don't get your monazite being exposed on the surface and eroded, which makes it about a zillion times harder to find it since it's buried in a magma chamber a few km below the crust that's very hard to find.
Net result - you'll probably find Lanthanum on large, tectonically active worlds, and not on small, dead rockballs.
(if you want to do it realistically, that is. You could, alternatively say that there are mountains of pur lanthanum on some wacky world or other
)
Captain Zoom
SOC-9
You might want to double-check. I don't think the DGP or MT stuff has been decanonized. There is a copyright issue preventing re-printing alot of the DGP stuff.Originally posted by Malenfant:
Oh. DGP = Digest Group Publications. Publishers of Megatraveller stuff, now decanonised because of legal dispute between Marc Miller and Roger Sanger (who now owns the rights to that material). Joe Fugate is now on these boards, he used to run the company, go see the MT board for details.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Hunter has publically stated that they (DGP materials) are still canon.
Unless something has changed in the last few months...
Unless something has changed in the last few months...
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Oh, and the element onnesium is a vitally important resource for the production of many high tech toys.
roberthawk
SOC-2
Oh, and please don't forget; jabbertronium,kenesium,elephanetrillium,and boxetonium....
omnimpotent
SOC-3
Ah, yes, the leaverite minerals.
Ran Targas
SOC-14 1K
Neutronium? Neutron star matter? Nothing harder, nothing denser, nothing heavier.
- A thin layer could be used to provide artificial gravity to an otherwise micro-gee surface
- A little thicker layer could be used as hull plating for starships or orbital habitats
- A pellet could be used as an incredibly effective armor piercing projectile
- A tethered toroid or rod could be used to draw samples or collect gases or liquids from gas giants
- A thin walled hollow sphere could be used as an orbital habitat with it's own interior and exterior gravity
Who knows the other useful properties of neutron matter other than a building material? What are the expected electrical properties? Could it be used as a heat sink or battery?
Imagine using super high capacity batteries to harness lightning for power (who needs fusion !?!). Maybe bombarding neutronium with exotic subatomic creates bizarre subspace effects leading to breakthroughs in faster drives or FTL communications or matter transport.
Now, where do you get it? Supernovae nebula? Neutron star ejecta? You'd definitely need a high tech level just to handle the stuff.
- A thin layer could be used to provide artificial gravity to an otherwise micro-gee surface
- A little thicker layer could be used as hull plating for starships or orbital habitats
- A pellet could be used as an incredibly effective armor piercing projectile
- A tethered toroid or rod could be used to draw samples or collect gases or liquids from gas giants
- A thin walled hollow sphere could be used as an orbital habitat with it's own interior and exterior gravity
Who knows the other useful properties of neutron matter other than a building material? What are the expected electrical properties? Could it be used as a heat sink or battery?
Imagine using super high capacity batteries to harness lightning for power (who needs fusion !?!). Maybe bombarding neutronium with exotic subatomic creates bizarre subspace effects leading to breakthroughs in faster drives or FTL communications or matter transport.
Now, where do you get it? Supernovae nebula? Neutron star ejecta? You'd definitely need a high tech level just to handle the stuff.
M
Malenfant
Guest
Neutronium is also (naturally) ridiculously dense - one cubic millimetre of it would weigh about 100,000,000 kg! Even a thin layer around something would probably weigh trillions of tons, and would sink through the ground like hot knife through butter. Just ever so slightly impractical to use (and you'd need to pump a huge amount of energy into contragrav systems to counteract the mass).
Besides, high TL Superdense armour is partially collapsed, and at higher TLs you can manipulate that to be even better (Bonded Superdense, Coherent Superdense, etc).
Besides, high TL Superdense armour is partially collapsed, and at higher TLs you can manipulate that to be even better (Bonded Superdense, Coherent Superdense, etc).
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
And how the heck would you mine the stuff in the first place???
Ran Targas
SOC-14 1K
Mal,Originally posted by Malenfant:
Neutronium is also (naturally) ridiculously dense - one cubic millimetre of it would weigh about 100,000,000 kg! Even a thin layer around something would probably weigh trillions of tons, and would sink through the ground like hot knife through butter. Just ever so slightly impractical to use (and you'd need to pump a huge amount of energy into contragrav systems to counteract the mass).
Besides, high TL Superdense armour is partially collapsed, and at higher TLs you can manipulate that to be even better (Bonded Superdense, Coherent Superdense, etc).
I know that neutronium is extremely dense and would be a very unforgiving material to handle. I was just trying to answer the question asked in the title of the thread ... neutronium would definitely only be available to extremely high TL's and who knows why they would want it.
And your description made me think of one use for neutronium, to carve open planets. If you're building a Dyson sphere or ring world, you'd need to be able to carve planets up for building materials. There's your knife.
A miniscule pellet would be near impossible to handle in a gravity field. It would have a nasty tendance to inhale all matter around it, or if not in metallic form, assume a volume equivilent to it's mass quite explosively.
Version A
"Hey Fred, be careful around that pellet, it's nutronium! Fred? Fred where are you? Frank, have you seen Fred? Oh well, time to hire another lab assistant."
Version B
"Fred, now slowly lower the grav field on the neutronium pellet. Don't let it get below the red line at 500,000 G pressure." "Chuck, the pellet is starting to get a bit wobbley at 521,000 G pressure, are you sure it's metallic and not fluidic based?" "Fred, increase pressure!, Ah $#!^, it was fluid based. KNow where we can get another bay, this hundred tonner burst on us."
Version A
"Hey Fred, be careful around that pellet, it's nutronium! Fred? Fred where are you? Frank, have you seen Fred? Oh well, time to hire another lab assistant."
Version B
"Fred, now slowly lower the grav field on the neutronium pellet. Don't let it get below the red line at 500,000 G pressure." "Chuck, the pellet is starting to get a bit wobbley at 521,000 G pressure, are you sure it's metallic and not fluidic based?" "Fred, increase pressure!, Ah $#!^, it was fluid based. KNow where we can get another bay, this hundred tonner burst on us."
Ran Targas
SOC-14 1K
Vegas/Anthony,
Again, I only said this would be a material that high tech level civilizations may deem useful. That implies they have means and methods to manipulate it with minimal chance of incident.
Again, maybe they use it to create wormholes, power starships, or armor planet killers. Who knows? Maybe those properties you state are the properties found to be most useful. If it had just one incredibly useful application, it would probably be sought after.
Neutronium is a material we have atleast postulated on, unlike Handwavium and Transparent Aluminum. Why not try to figure out what future technologists would use it for?
Again, I only said this would be a material that high tech level civilizations may deem useful. That implies they have means and methods to manipulate it with minimal chance of incident.
Again, maybe they use it to create wormholes, power starships, or armor planet killers. Who knows? Maybe those properties you state are the properties found to be most useful. If it had just one incredibly useful application, it would probably be sought after.
Neutronium is a material we have atleast postulated on, unlike Handwavium and Transparent Aluminum. Why not try to figure out what future technologists would use it for?
