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MgT2 and T5 computers

robject

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I was comparing the two.

Assumption 1: TL is the unifying element of the two tables.
Assumption 2: Indirect and underlying assumptions relate the two.
Corollary to 2: They're measuring different things, so they won't just match up.
Assumption 3: "bis" is a bit more powerful in T5 than MgT.

Code:
TL  Traveller5 name & MCr  Mongoose2 name & MCr
--  ---------------------  --------------------
 7                         Computer/5      0.03
                           Computer/5bis   0.045

 8        Model/0     0.1
          Model/0bis  0.5

 9        Model/1     1.5  Computer/10     0.16
          Model/1bis  3.0  Computer/10bis  0.24

10        Model/2     5.0
          Model/2bis  7.5

11        Model/3    10.5  Computer/15     2
          Model/3bis 14    Computer/15bis  3

12        Model/4    18    Computer/20     5
          Model/4bis 22    Computer/20bis  7.5

13        Model/5    27    Computer/25    10
          Model/5bis 33    Computer/25bis 15

14        Model/6    39    Computer/30    20
          Model/6bis 45    Computer/30bis 30

15        Model/7    52    Computer/35    30
          Model/7bis 60    Computer/35bis 45

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
IN A PINCH,
You can just convert a MgT Computer to a T5 Model by dividing Computer power by 5. It's close enough.
You can just convert a T5 Model to a MgT Computer by multiplying Model number by 5. It's close enough.


LONG-WINDED DISCUSSION
As you can see, they are not equivalent. Each is making some different key assumptions. Those keys are in their descriptions.

TL 8's Model/0 seems like it could match a hypothetical Computer/7.

TL 9-10 feel particularly chaotic to me.

Some measurable and predictable regularity sets in around TL 11, though price doesn't seem to settle down until TL 13 or 14.

I. Processes T5 models are (major) task resolvers; they are a subset of the computers detailed in MgT, which span simple processing devices to starship computers.

Very generally, it seems that each 3 to 5 MgT levels or so corresponds roughly to 1 T5 model number.

II. Parallelization. T5 models are specifically parallel or perhaps 'simultaneous' processors. MgT computers are not required to be such, and many of them probably aren't.

Minor Notes
Volume is an inconsequential issue. In T5, computer volume is explicit, but ship tonnage is flexible. In MgT, computer volume is implicit, and ship tonnage is less flexible.
 
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Not "No Volume" just "Volume that is covered by the Bridge component".

Not even that, but "distributed throughout the ship".

Volume is an inconsequential issue. In T5, computer volume is explicit, but ship tonnage is flexible. In MgT, computer volume is implicit, and ship tonnage is less flexible.
 
It's become an abstract conceptual ship system, dependent on how much you want to spend on it, ironically what's happening with our current personal computers.

The most powerful computer(s) can be present in the smallest possible spacecraft, recalling the Rule of Two, a Master and a Backup.
 
The most powerful computer(s) can be present in the smallest possible spacecraft...

That's true, and to that extent, it is a flaw in Mongoose Traveller, since computer is intended to be a cipher for combat capability, and something that you can't just buy your way into.
 
And then there's always the fact you could run your spaceship, and astrogation, through your smartphone.

Once you make that realization, virtualization of the shipboard computers is probably the path of least resistance.
 
And then there's always the fact you could run your spaceship, and astrogation, through your smartphone.

Once you make that realization, virtualization of the shipboard computers is probably the path of least resistance.

It's probably worth considering that in LBB5, computers are also a proxy for active ECM. Seriously, you're not going to be pushing 250MW (1EP) into a 3Td computer just so it can do math.

For reference, the "Russian Woodpecker" (wikipedia) Cold War era over-the-horizon radar system broadcast at up to 10MW. The array was 150m tall and 700m wide.
 
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It's probably worth considering that in LBB5, computers are also a proxy for active ECM. Seriously, you're not going to be pushing 250MW (1EP) into a 3Td computer just so it can do math.

No, sensors and avionics are part of the bridge. The computer may perhaps perform signal processing for the sensors.

The computer is just a computer. Computers were large and power hungry in the 70's.


Just as they are today:


Note the extensive power handling equipment in the fore ground and the data centre in the background. "The computer" is a large building, one of many serving the same purpose...

And that is why your cell phone works so well, using so little power.


But, OK, current data centres generally don't draw GW or even hundreds of MW, but more like tens of MW.
 
If a decent processor draws about 300W to 1000W then 250MW is only 250,000 to 750,000 processors (TL8). So a small to medium grid array.

The processor on the computer that wrote this generates more heat per cubic cm than my central heating boiler!
 
And then there's always the fact you could run your spaceship, and astrogation, through your smartphone.

Just as an offhand remark: I would never trust my phone with my life... well to that degree anyhow.

Let's use Imperial-certified hardware and an Imperial-certified setup.

1. Sufficient computing power: easy.
2. Network has to be of a sort we know nothing about.
3. I/O sensing, sampling, and protocols are multiple, probably COTS, and of a sort we know nothing about.
4. Monitoring and reporting processes are of a kind we probably know nothing about.
5. Systems administration, including software package management, is going to be highly technical in a way that we can only guess. (Hint: the "cloud" will be exponentially older than "mainframe" is today).
6. Failover and disaster recovery is probably understood by us in general: double the hardware, add backup power, and climate control.
7. Security is probably generally understood by us. A combo of software and hardware setup.

Now even totaled together those don't equal 15 tons. I can grant that.


The form factor will be based on human access into a small room with climate control and, to a large degree, centralized components.


I suspect we'll want a rack and a few 1U, a UPS, a BIG battery for that UPS, an accessible patch panel, dedicated climate control, and put it in a little room.
 
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At any rate, I'm thinking of a rationalization path between these models in particular:

Code:
TL  Traveller5 name & MCr  Mongoose2 name & MCr
--  ---------------------  --------------------
 9        Model/1     1.5  Computer/10     0.16
          Model/1bis  3.0  Computer/10bis  0.24

10        Model/2     5.0
          Model/2bis  7.5

11        Model/3    10.5  Computer/15     2
          Model/3bis 14    Computer/15bis  3

The gaps in Mongoose's computer power has this little jump here, which picks up the pace after TL 11. Meanwhile, T5 sticks to a linear scale. Mongoose is mapped perhaps a bit more closely to jump technology.

T5 meanwhile perhaps plays a sort of catch-up game... but maybe it's better to say it's relatively decoupled from jump considerations and is more about starship automation.

And I think that's the defining difference between MgT and T5 computers. MgT is about finer grained software, and T5 is about automation.

If that's true, then I can figure out a path relating the two... or perhaps, I can make the statement that they are completely different solutions to similar problems, which allows them to mingle freely.
 
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Apple Starmaps
 
Considering Apple's holistic approach to product management, it could be that you can control the starship through the iPhone, but they sell you the complete starship, with the the ship systems outsourced but integrated by them.

iStar.
 
And then there's always the fact you could run your spaceship, and astrogation, through your smartphone.

Once you make that realization, virtualization of the shipboard computers is probably the path of least resistance.

cdaecd50e8fab4f66e77ac9030cd6e3e502befadr1-720-1280v2_hq.jpg


Apple Starmaps

Thankfully, we have Apple StarshipPlay.

"Hey Siri, take me to Regina".

"I've found one Regina, it is a capital world in the Regina Subsector within the Spinward Marches. It's 4 Parsecs away, which will take two jumps, and it rates 3.5 stars on Yelp. Is that the one you'd like?"

"Yes"

"Jumping to Regina..."
 
Thankfully, we have Apple StarshipPlay.

"Hey Siri, take me to Regina".

"I've found one Regina, it is a capital world in the Regina Subsector within the Spinward Marches. It's 4 Parsecs away, which will take two jumps, and it rates 3.5 stars on Yelp. Is that the one you'd like?"

"Yes"

"Jumping to Regina..."


As a referee, I would do my utmost to fail this spectacularly if the group is in a silly frame of mind. Otherwise, sure, why not?

Consider the ship's computers in Jack McDevitt's series that includes the awe-inspiring book Chindi. The personality simulations are so good that it sometimes makes the pilots wonder at the level of sophistication there.
 
Considering Apple's holistic approach to product management, it could be that you can control the starship through the iPhone, but they sell you the complete starship, with the the ship systems outsourced but integrated by them.

iStar.
Knowing Apple, they would have it that the starship can now only be repaired or maintained by an Apple-certifidd or owned shipyard.
 
They prefer that you buy the current decade's model.

And if something goes wrong with the starship, you can fly it (or have it towed), to the Genius Gar(age).
 
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