siefertma2
SOC-13
Quick question about Meson Guns: I know that they ignore the AR when figuring out AC for "to hit." However, are they handled differently when determining damage?
Meson Gun Damage.
- Thread starter siefertma2
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mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I've read the rules on page 157 to mean that thr regular armourAR is ignored for AC and damage reduction. The wording implies to me that the meson screen rating is used instead for AC calculation and damage reduction.
<Aside- and since it's not "armour" critical hits don't ignore it, but this is more of a rules fudge to prevent T20 meson bays being ship killers.>
<Aside- and since it's not "armour" critical hits don't ignore it, but this is more of a rules fudge to prevent T20 meson bays being ship killers.>
siefertma2
SOC-13
That's what I would think. The rules in Striker (both versions) idicate that anything unlucky enough to be under meson gun bombarment is toast.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I wonder why there are no battlefield meson screens?
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Or maybe meson screens only work in vacuum? So spaceships have them while most battlefields have some atmosphere and so it was never developed?
The handwave comes from their description. Both the Nuclear Dampers and the Meson screens require two projectors separated by some distance to generate a interference field. In addition to the bulky size and power requirements of the field generators, the volume protected is a factor of separation.
So, like flykiller said, by the time you add the node generator, power plant, computer control system, and separation, you are into the 1000dton ship size.
Striker had rules for mounting 1/2 a Nuclear damper into an AFV, so if you had two, plus a sensor network a big computer and a data connection between them, you could have a battlefield nuclear damper covering several square km.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
So why can't you do the same thing with a meson screen? The smallest ship mounted nuclear damper is the 8dt TL14 #4, 40EP. The smallest meson screen is 16dt TL14 #4, 40EP worth protects a 5000dt ship. So your AFVs would have to be a bit bigger
Mercenary gave us battlefield meson guns but no meson screen, just made me wonder if someone had ruled that meson screens don't work in an atmosphere. Otherwise they seem to be just as feasible as a battlefield nuclear damper system.
using HG2 rules and a little bit of interpretation a factor 1 nuclear damper screen can be squeezed onto four 20-ton gigs - two for the screen, one for the power plant, and one to do fuel runs and purification. adding another gig for computer and comms should cover any loose ends.
is a few square miles sufficient coverage? nukes have a big "close enough" radius.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
This idea could be extended to escort class ships. They could carry the components to create a nuclear damper field or meson screen around other vessels to add another line of defence against these ship killing weapons.
YMMV, of course
YMMV, of course
And to get the thread back on track. Meson damage is tooooooo high. Drop it to D12 in line with PA, drop crit to x2 leaving Fusion as the short range but realy nasty ship killer. Leave crit as is but use meson screens as both AC and AR.
Thus meson damage is the same as PA but with a higher crit chance as it explodes inside your hull and only meson screens protect against it requiring hi tech screens and power which takes up space on the ships. This way a meson spinal will hurt, on a crit it will realy smart but your DNs can actualy take a hit and move on (well limp off) rather than the current situation where DN plus meson spinal =
Thus meson damage is the same as PA but with a higher crit chance as it explodes inside your hull and only meson screens protect against it requiring hi tech screens and power which takes up space on the ships. This way a meson spinal will hurt, on a crit it will realy smart but your DNs can actualy take a hit and move on (well limp off) rather than the current situation where DN plus meson spinal =
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
A question I have never got the answer to yet is, in the real world, how much damage would a proximity nuclear explosion cause to a spaceship at 100m, 500m, 1km etc.
There is no atmosphere for a blast wave, and all ships have to be hardened against radiation and temperature extremes anyway.
Contact detonation, or hull penetration followed by detonation should kill a ship with one hit, but what about near misses? What is "close enough"?
There is no atmosphere for a blast wave, and all ships have to be hardened against radiation and temperature extremes anyway.
Contact detonation, or hull penetration followed by detonation should kill a ship with one hit, but what about near misses? What is "close enough"?
Most of the "blast damage" of a nuke is space is due to the burst of x-rays it generates. In an atmosphere, the air absorbs these x-rays, becoming superheated and causing the blast effect we all know and love.Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
A question I have never got the answer to yet is, in the real world, how much damage would a proximity nuclear explosion cause to a spaceship at 100m, 500m, 1km etc.
There is no atmosphere for a blast wave, and all ships have to be hardened against radiation and temperature extremes anyway.
Contact detonation, or hull penetration followed by detonation should kill a ship with one hit, but what about near misses? What is "close enough"?
In space, you create this giant burst of x-rays (and neutrons from some effects). These spread following the inverse square law of all light sources (twice as far, one quarter the damage). When the x-ray burst hits something solid (like your ship), the outer layer of armor absorbs the photons, becoming heated in the process.
As a general rule, anything over a few hundred meters will have little or no effect on an armored hull, and over a few km won't have much effect even on a lightly armored hull. The nuclear blast in the recent Battlestar Galactica was just about right on for a close, but non-contact nuke hit.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Thank you, tjoneslo
.
Against an armored ship, there are two probable long-range problems caused by a nuclear weapon.
A 1 kiloton nuclear weapon puts out 4.2x10^12J, of which 80-90% is soft X-rays, and the remainder is penetrating radiation (gamma and neutrons).
At a range of 180 meters, total dose is 1 kilojoule per cm^2. This will basically melt the surface of the hull, fairly reliably destroying everything actually on the surface (focal lenses and sensors will be rather unhappy), and will probably create shockwaves in the hull due to vaporized material.
At a range of 580 meters, total dose is 100J/cm^2. This probably won't do electronics any good, and is likely to damage lenses and the like, and would ignite many materials in atmosphere, but won't damage bulk metal objects.
At a range of 1.8 kilometers, total dose is 10J/cm^2. This will temporarily heat the surface by a hundred degrees or so, which will destroy fragile objects with thermal shock. Electronics may be unhappy, paint will probably be stripped, weapon optics should be ok.
At a range of 5.8 kilometers, total dose is 1J/cm^2. This will kill unshielded humans due to radiation exposure, but shouldn't much affect an armored hull.
For larger weapons, simply multiply radius by the square root of kilotons, so a 10 megaton weapon will probably cause substantial damage to surface features at 58 kilometers.
A 1 kiloton nuclear weapon puts out 4.2x10^12J, of which 80-90% is soft X-rays, and the remainder is penetrating radiation (gamma and neutrons).
At a range of 180 meters, total dose is 1 kilojoule per cm^2. This will basically melt the surface of the hull, fairly reliably destroying everything actually on the surface (focal lenses and sensors will be rather unhappy), and will probably create shockwaves in the hull due to vaporized material.
At a range of 580 meters, total dose is 100J/cm^2. This probably won't do electronics any good, and is likely to damage lenses and the like, and would ignite many materials in atmosphere, but won't damage bulk metal objects.
At a range of 1.8 kilometers, total dose is 10J/cm^2. This will temporarily heat the surface by a hundred degrees or so, which will destroy fragile objects with thermal shock. Electronics may be unhappy, paint will probably be stripped, weapon optics should be ok.
At a range of 5.8 kilometers, total dose is 1J/cm^2. This will kill unshielded humans due to radiation exposure, but shouldn't much affect an armored hull.
For larger weapons, simply multiply radius by the square root of kilotons, so a 10 megaton weapon will probably cause substantial damage to surface features at 58 kilometers.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I wish I'd asked this question on CotI earlier , thanks to you too Anthony.
p.s. the question arises due to a group of PCs once trying to run from a nuclear missile, fired from a TL8 world, in a scout/courier.
, thanks to you too Anthony.p.s. the question arises due to a group of PCs once trying to run from a nuclear missile, fired from a TL8 world, in a scout/courier.
Several related questions Questions:
1) What would the accomponing EMP from the Nuke do to the ship's electronics and computers?
2) How would this EMP affect sensors and communications of other ships and satilates not in the blast radious. Would it nock out communications and sensors as if a very powerfull radar jamming went up. And how long would that effect last?
3) How do I translate all of this wonderful science into game Mechanics?
1) What would the accomponing EMP from the Nuke do to the ship's electronics and computers?
2) How would this EMP affect sensors and communications of other ships and satilates not in the blast radious. Would it nock out communications and sensors as if a very powerfull radar jamming went up. And how long would that effect last?
3) How do I translate all of this wonderful science into game Mechanics?
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