Merchants and GURPS Vehicle Builder CD

[Hyperkit]

Hi,
I need some advice, please. I use Traveller for designing ships for my novels, as some may remember from long ago previous posts of mine. I need, for plot reasons, a merchant ship big enough for a 150dt ship to land inside. Dimensions 130 ft long by 120 ft wide (mainly "wings" with fuel) by 37.4 ft high.
I am postulating the merchant big enough for customers to land inside it and "shop" as well as it to send shuttles down to planets with ordered goods. Is this a reasonable scenario? I may need a 1,000dt ship to get a cargo bay large enough for this.

I also just bouhgt the cd for GURPS vehicle builders - does a great job, a Tom Blunt (sp?) program in concert with someone else. BUT it still assumes knowledge I don't have. Not sure what versions of GURPS Traveller I have, all I can find is mention of 1998 copyright.

My problems stem from knowing how many manoeuver drives I need etc. Did the tutuorial making Beowolf (everyone uses this ship ) but am no wiser cos it tells you what you need to put in, not how to get to the conclusion you need X manoeuvers, Y Jumps and fuel for it.

Is there anywhere I can get a Primer as it were with all this info in it or find it in a relevant book for this CD? No explanations in the manual for it, nor Links to a GURPS or Traveller book. I also have GURPS Space 3rd ED.

Help on either, preferably both

appreciated.
Thanks!

 

[Pwyll]

Originally posted by Kitt:
Hi,
I need some advice, please. I use Traveller for designing ships for my novels, as some may remember from long ago previous posts of mine. I need, for plot reasons, a merchant ship big enough for a 150dt ship to land inside. Dimensions 130 ft long by 120 ft wide (mainly "wings" with fuel) by 37.4 ft high.
I am postulating the merchant big enough for customers to land inside it and "shop" as well as it to send shuttles down to planets with ordered goods. Is this a reasonable scenario? I may need a 1,000dt ship to get a cargo bay large enough for this.

I also just bouhgt the cd for GURPS vehicle builders - does a great job, a Tom Blunt (sp?) program in concert with someone else. BUT it still assumes knowledge I don't have. Not sure what versions of GURPS Traveller I have, all I can find is mention of 1998 copyright.

My problems stem from knowing how many manoeuver drives I need etc. Did the tutuorial making Beowolf (everyone uses this ship ) but am no wiser cos it tells you what you need to put in, not how to get to the conclusion you need X manoeuvers, Y Jumps and fuel for it.

Is there anywhere I can get a Primer as it were with all this info in it or find it in a relevant book for this CD? No explanations in the manual for it, nor Links to a GURPS or Traveller book. I also have GURPS Space 3rd ED.

Help on either, preferably both

appreciated.
Thanks!

heya kitt

wow, glad i never bought gurps... sounds like i'd have been unhappy.
anyway, tips on design. everything on a starship should have a strong economic reason for being there. if your ship can charter small craft in-system to make its deliveries, do that instead of putting them on your merchant. hangars consume large amounts of interior space and should be avoided if possible. perhaps space used as "show-rooms" could use holo-projectors to save space.
hope you found this helpful.

 

[Hyperkit]

GURPS, since I am come late to Traveller, and only as my Editor said "Design your ships then you can write about them realisticall." does provide an easier way, its modular design system, than the number crunching I found so awful when using original Traveller Classic and High Guard ship design methods.

What you say makes sense, unfortunately for Plot reasons I need to put this ship, a black ops one, inside a merchant ship "if I can".

Anyone have any info on what space is assumed to be between decks for essential cables etc? I know decks are assumed to be 8-9 ft high, but need an idea of 'tween deck space when calculating how many decks on a ship with X feet in height.
Sorry, can't even think in meters so am sticking to feet, and yes, I am a bit of a luddite at times.

 

[vegascat]

You pinpointed the reason why I still design ships using High Guard. The later editions are complications of the high guard system. For Manuver drives, use a percentage of the total tonnage.
1G 2%
2G 5%
3G 8%
4G 11%
5G 14%
6G 17%
The rest of the High Guard design system is as easy to use.

The ship you are describing sound like an express boat tender from Sup 7. It has a large 600 ton bay for express boats and scouts. If you rally want a ship for others to dock in , maybe you should try a high port.

 

[Pwyll]

soon i will finish my ship design util that does the number crunching for you

 

[Andrew Boulton]

An xboat tender might be what you need.

Decks are 3m high, ~50cm of which are taken up with grav plates, pipes, etc.

 

[Pwyll]

from Kitt:
What you say makes sense, unfortunately for Plot reasons I need to put this ship, a black ops one, inside a merchant ship "if I can".

sounds like you want something like an 800 ton merc cruiser that looks like a merchant, correct?

 

[clementk]

You may want to look at GT: Starships. Although I don't have it yet it may have some more detail on spaceship design both in game and out.

As for space for wiring and such you may want to look into real world design specs to give you an estimate.

And I have a feeling someone's already hashed out such detail on the TML.

Casey

 

[Hyperkit]

Vagascat, thanks for the stats - have written em down in my notes. Unfortunately I only borrowed HG and Classic Traveller books and no longer have access to them or the friend who had them.
The Express boat tender - is there a picture or better still plans on the net at all? Sounds like it would be OK.

Andrew, thanks.

Casey, will see if I can get a look at the GT Starships book first - so many are just full of the same old deckplans and specs I already have.

 

[clementk]

Originally posted by Kitt:
Casey, will see if I can get a look at the GT Starships book first - so many are just full of the same old deckplans and specs I already have.

/me nods

That's why I've not bought it yet.

Casey

 

[far-trader]

Hello Kitt. The idea of using an Xboat Tender is not a bad one. It could be purpose built for your story's character(s) or (more likely from a Traveller perspective) purchased as decomissioned surplus and then refit for your story's purpose.

There is a most excellent graphic of it by Jesse DeGraff. His welcome page is here:

Vision Forge Graphics

Just enter (click) the airlock (b&w picture) and then on the next page select "The Traveller Gallery" link and scroll down. There's a "Tender Progress" link to his early work on it and a little below that a final render with the ship bay open.

I'm sure there are deckplans for it out there somewhere. I'll post back if I can track them down again, gotta look through some old bookmarks.

As for dimensions, you can figure (like I do) a clear deck height of about 10 feet (if you must stick with such measures for comfort ). Cargo and hanger decks are about this high with few if any overhead obstructions, and may even be double or more decks in height if needed. Interior decks where comfort is required fit all the needed wiring, ducts, etc. in overhead or underfloor spaces with access, usually about 2.5 feet high leaving a 7.5 foot ceiling for rooms and corridors.

 

[Hyperkit]

Thanks for the reply and the Link. Lovely art he has.

 

[vegascat]

Correction to my previous numbers, I had to go back and actually check the book instead of my memory. The numbers for manuver drives are actually:

1G 2%
2G 5%
3G 8%
4G 11%
5G 14%
6G 17%

Apologies for the error.

 

[Hal]

Howdy,

First thing to do is this: Decide how much volume your craft has to take total. A space hangar uses twice the volume of the ships it is intended to hold. You can either use that rule, or use the actual dimensions of the hold you want. Every 500 cubic feet = 1 Dton in GURPS TRAVELLER (an area 10 feet x 10 feet x 5 feet deep). So if you know that the dimensions of the ship you want to have inside is a 24' wide craft by 10 feet tall by 25 feet long (who cares about its actual volume here) - then you'd likely want a bay that is 36' wide, 15' tall by 35 to 40 feet long. 36 x 15 x 40 is 21,000 cubic feet or 42 dtons. If you want it to hold 150 dtons in its "hold", then you need to allocate 300 dtons to your space dock. Rule of thumb? Your merchant should have roughly 1.6 Dtons of ship hull for every 1 dton of cargo space it carries. Assuming you want to carry 200 dtons of cargo space *and* a space dock of say, 300 dtons - your ship should be about 1.6 x 500, or 800 dtons. (just a rule of thumb that I find useful myself)

 

[Hyperkit]

Thanks, Hal, good tip.