MEGATRAVELLER MILIEU

[kafka47]

<i><sargasm mode on>Say, Avery, just how much would you want for the MT rules sans background... <sarcasm mode off></I>

I think this is a brilliant idea, if it could only be developed further. I really applaud MJD effort to bring back a TNE backstory without rules. Why cannot we see a comprehensive set of rules for Traveller that would reflect all the great innovations built into the system. Of course, we would want the High Tech feel, therefore it is logical that we adopt a corrected MT or FF&S.

My biggest problem is that I actually also like the Rebellion Milieu. Although, the secret for me was always keep it as the background not the foreground of events in the campaign. Something that I think originators had in mind, but then got sucked into massive space battles and epic campaigns. Rather than ordinary Smoes just trying to get to work while the universe is in chaos.

 

[J]

Your right the rebellion made a nice backdrop for a campaign. If you set the game in a region between 2 factions you can create a campaign background that moves with the passing of time.

A rebellion era sourcebook would be nice, taking all the background material from the GDW MT books and removing the rules. The result should be usable with any traveller rule set. Perhaps it could even offer alternate endings to the rebellion, instead of the slow decline of the empire as in Hard Times. A cold war situation could develop between Dulinor and Lucan. One side could even win the war!

Any new rules set should be created independent of milieu. While I would agree with the need for a high tech feel I'm not sure adapting MT or FF&S is the way to do it. To create a high tech feel to a game you do not need high tech, complex rules. What you need is to present a high tech feel to the game and to the situations the players find themselves in. Spacecraft should appear high tech, but that doesn't make a space craft built with FS&S or MT "feel" any more high tech to the players than a Book 2 spacecraft.

I doubt you will ever get a "fixed" version of FS&S, you'll never get everyone to agree. If I was writing T5 i'd go all the way back to the little black books and start from there.

J.

 

[kafka47]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by J:
Your right the rebellion made a nice backdrop for a campaign. If you set the game in a region between 2 factions you can create a campaign background that moves with the passing of time.

A rebellion era sourcebook would be nice, taking all the background material from the GDW MT books and removing the rules. The result should be usable with any traveller rule set. Perhaps it could even offer alternate endings to the rebellion, instead of the slow decline of the empire as in Hard Times. A cold war situation could develop between Dulinor and Lucan. One side could even win the war!
J.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Any takers? I would like to see this also played out on a larger canvas of not only two empires battling it out but a multitude which is what make the Rebellion era so interesting. Brothers of Varan doing secret sabotage behind Lucan lines. Norris emmissaries trying to break through Corridor. Vilani secretly plotting to take back the Imperium. The Solomani caught in the intrigues that are present in Margaret's court. A lone Craig trying to compromise with the relentless drive of the Aslan.
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.
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And, for me against the slow decay of the Hard Times milieu slowly creeping forward.

I tell you there is so much potential in the MT Milieu, I wish that it could get the support of Marc releasing some of the planned supplements for the MT era that never saw the light of day. eg. Flashbacks, Black Duke & Rebel Tales. Or if Sanger would at least let us know what treasures DGP had planned

 

[aramis]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kafka47:
Any takers? I would like to see this also played out on a larger canvas of not only two empires battling it out but a multitude which is what make the Rebellion era so interesting. Brothers of Varan doing secret sabotage behind Lucan lines. Norris emmissaries trying to break through Corridor. Vilani secretly plotting to take back the Imperium. The Solomani caught in the intrigues that are present in Margaret's court. A lone Craig trying to compromise with the relentless drive of the Aslan.
.
.
.
And, for me against the slow decay of the Hard Times milieu slowly creeping forward.

I tell you there is so much potential in the MT Milieu, I wish that it could get the support of Marc releasing some of the planned supplements for the MT era that never saw the light of day. eg. Flashbacks, Black Duke & Rebel Tales. Or if Sanger would at least let us know what treasures DGP had planned<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree. Now, A friend and I have been discussing (for many years) how we feel thigs progressed post "Capital Smashing" by Dulinor in the 30s... assuming virus never existed.



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-aramis
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Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!

 

[J]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kafka47:
Any takers? I would like to see this also played out on a larger canvas of not only two empires battling it out but a multitude which is what make the Rebellion era so interesting. Brothers of Varan doing secret sabotage behind Lucan lines. Norris emmissaries trying to break through Corridor. Vilani secretly plotting to take back the Imperium. The Solomani caught in the intrigues that are present in Margaret's court. A lone Craig trying to compromise with the relentless drive of the Aslan.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your right all the situations you mention are interesting parts of the rebellion. I suppose thats part of the problem, the imperium is so big and their are so many interesting factions. MT ended up covering them all in a broad context instead of concentrating on one or two specific areas.

CT's supplements detailed the Spinward Marches and the Solomani Rim, leaving the rest of the imperium for individuals. MT tended to jump from area to area. "Knightfall" was set in Masillia, "Flaming Eye" in Vland/Lishun, each adventure was set in a different place.

Perhaps whats needed is a detailed sector for use with MT. Pick a sector and detail what happens in that area during the rebellion, detailing what each factoins influence on the local area is. This would create a more "local" background for the rebellion, which would be more suited to the "ordinary smoes" type of campaign.

The problem is picking a sector.....

J.

 

[kafka47]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by J:

Perhaps whats needed is a detailed sector for use with MT. Pick a sector and detail what happens in that area during the rebellion, detailing what each factoins influence on the local area is. This would create a more "local" background for the rebellion, which would be more suited to the "ordinary smoes" type of campaign.

The problem is picking a sector.....

J.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Or at least another supplement which montitors the advancement of Hard Times in a particular region. Alas, it is a pity that there were not more stringent guidelines for writing in Challenge...

But, I guess nobody else wants really to see a Megatraveller milieu resurected, as much as I. I would just like to see all those lost supplements that were promised by GDW see the light of day. However, remember to those that also would... Marc has mentioned that he would consider releasing MT in a PDF format on CD Rom, if interest was great enough. So keep the flame alive.

I would agree that the problem with MT was that it was vast compared to CT. But, as I only started playing Traveller in 1984. I never suffered from the handicap that I believed that the Imperium was not insurmountable just very big. The legacy that CT seems to be is concentrate on one sector, not the big picture. I hope that T20 will once again break free of this sectoral bias. Afterall, they are starting in a domain rather than just a sector. So there is hope, yet. How do all you others envision the big picture?

 

[aramis]

For me, the biggest hassle was that the expansions were scattered through so much material. The expansions to the design sequences: 5 challenge articles. Two of which were updated in a supplement. Aircraft were in a supplement.

The setting was nice. Hard Times was fun. But I'm more interested in MT rules as a ruleset. Even though I don't think it modern enough to sell well.

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-aramis
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Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!

 

[J]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kafka47:
But, I guess nobody else wants really to see a Megatraveller milieu resurected, as much as I. I would just like to see all those lost supplements that were promised by GDW see the light of day. However, remember to those that also would... Marc has mentioned that he would consider releasing MT in a PDF format on CD Rom, if interest was great enough. So keep the flame alive.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can't see there being a market for a complete resurrection of the milieu. I would guess that most people who are still interested in megatraveller/the rebellion have most of the books. I'm only missing a couple now. I'm not sure I'd shell out for a complete set of reprints just to get the last 3, but a CD wouldn't cost too much.

The unpublished supplements do interest me whatever form their in. But there's no real market for them so they are unlikely to see the light of day.

The MT rules are really only a upgrade of CT. I liked the integrated design sequence, but the implementation wasn't brilliant, I used it for a while but then gave up and used High Guard instead. But High guard is almost as complex as MT and most of the published designs for HG are wrong.

As for resurrecting the milieu the best thing to do is to keep running games set in the rebellion, or if you like the rules keep using them. I'm sure there must be more MT/Rebellion fans out there, there just isn't the same internet presence as for other versions so it's harder to find them.

J.

[This message has been edited by J (edited 08 January 2002).]

 

[T. Foster]

MegaTraveller is by far my favorite Traveller ruleset, and thus by convenience my games usually end up set against the Rebellion background, but I still don't see much need for a Rebellion Era Milieu Book anytime soon. For one thing, the era has already been pretty well detailed through the existing supplements (including DGP material and magazines), but, more importantly, the subsequent OTU timeline has made the Rebellion Era pretty much meaningless -- since we all know that the war is just going to stagnate into Hard Times and then Collapse under Virus, there's no real drama or 'rooting interest.' Those who already like the setting can and will continue to use it, but I see no 'selling point' to attract new players: "now you too can be a part of the futile destruction of a civilization!"

That said, I'd like to eventually see a whole range of Milieu Books, and I'd include the Rebellion Era as one of those, including a number of possible 'alternate Rebellions' for those who don't like being straitjacketed by the OTU timeline, but I wouldn't put it anywhere near the top of my Milieu Want List.

[edited to add:] On the matter of those 'lost supplements,' I don't want to be accused of bubble-bursting but I very highly doubt any of them were ever actually written. I'm sure at one time there were some 1-2 page prospecti and some rough draft notes and outlines (which are probably themselves lost in the mists of time), but I'd be very surprised to hear that anything approaching a finished manuscript ever existed for any of these 'announced' titles. That's just the way the game industry seems to work -- first you announce the title and set a release date, then you find somebody to actually write it.

[This message has been edited by T. Foster (edited 08 January 2002).]

 

[aramis]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by T. Foster:

[edited to add:] On the matter of those 'lost supplements,' I don't want to be accused of bubble-bursting but I very highly doubt any of them were ever actually written. I'm sure at one time there were some 1-2 page prospecti and some rough draft notes and outlines (which are probably themselves lost in the mists of time), but I'd be very surprised to hear that anything approaching a finished manuscript ever existed for any of these 'announced' titles. That's just the way the game industry seems to work -- first you announce the title and set a release date, then you find somebody to actually write it.

[This message has been edited by T. Foster (edited 08 January 2002).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Last I was in contact with RS, he'd gotten possession of a working draft of Alien Races vol 3, full text, no illos. Vol 4 & 5 were less than rough draft stage (loose notes)

As for the GDW, I've no idea.

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-aramis
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Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!

 

[J]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by T. Foster:
For one thing, the era has already been pretty well detailed through the existing supplements (including DGP material and magazines), but, more importantly, the subsequent OTU timeline has made the Rebellion Era pretty much meaningless -- since we all know that the war is just going to stagnate into Hard Times and then Collapse under Virus, there's no real drama or 'rooting interest.'<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good point, but surely the same applies to all milieu books? The time line has been plotted all the way up to the new stuff MJD is producing for TNE, so any milieu prior to that will have the problem of being predetermined. The only options are to do away with the official timeline (as GURPS did) or to play in a static part of the time line where nothing much changes (the CT setting) but doesn't quite have the same interest.

Alternative rebellion endings could prove interesting particularly if you want a campaign where the PC's can change the course of the rebellion.

J.

 

[T. Foster]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by J:
Good point, but surely the same applies to all milieu books? The time line has been plotted all the way up to the new stuff MJD is producing for TNE, so any milieu prior to that will have the problem of being predetermined. The only options are to do away with the official timeline (as GURPS did) or to play in a static part of the time line where nothing much changes (the CT setting) but doesn't quite have the same interest.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To an extent this is true, which is the primary reason I'm not all that crazy about having a 'future-past' as the game's primary setting and am a big supporter of MJD's timeline-revival efforts, but an important distinction is that all of the other seriously-proposed Milieux to date (Interstellar Wars, M:0, M:200)* have been periods of growth, expansion, and optimism, and the fore-knowledge of the players would tend to create a sort of 'manifest destiny': they know they're doing the right thing and in the Big Picture their side is going to win eventually. Pre-knowing the historical 'end' of the Rebellion Era would create the opposite feeling: there can be no happy endings even in the short-term -- everything's going to come crashing down, and it's going to happen Soon!

*T20's M:1000 doesn't quite fit this pattern, but it's close enough to the CT-era that I suspect the 'feel' will be largely identical and its era-backdating mostly just a gimmick.

 

[mjwest]

Just to amplify what T.Foster is saying: In all of the other future history settings, what will be is based on what is. So, even if your character(s) is(are) on the losing side, life will go on. The character, what they built, their decendants all go forward.

With the Virus, there is a hard line in 1130 where (for all intents and purposes) EVERYONE dies. EVERYONE loses. Gone. Goodbye. Game over. Time to start again.

With the Rebellion period, you damn well better make sure you end up in the Marches by 1130, or you have just seen the future and you ain't in it!

 

[Takei]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kafka47:
Marc has mentioned that he would consider releasing MT in a PDF format on CD Rom, if interest was great enough. So keep the flame alive.

[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd be interested in this as long as it was updated to include ALL of the errata. If it came out and I bought a copy only to find errata as included documents on the CD I'd be seriously annoyed.

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Paul

 

[kafka47]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mjwest:
Just to amplify what T.Foster is saying: In all of the other future history settings, what will be is based on what is. So, even if your character(s) is(are) on the losing side, life will go on. The character, what they built, their decendants all go forward.

With the Virus, there is a hard line in 1130 where (for all intents and purposes) EVERYONE dies. EVERYONE loses. Gone. Goodbye. Game over. Time to start again.

With the Rebellion period, you damn well better make sure you end up in the Marches by 1130, or you have just seen the future and you ain't in it!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To this and similar threads. Yes, this is cannon history but surely one can always play outside of cannon. The grind of history is not always a disadvantage. Remember there are always exceptions even within cannon. As remember the Hard Times was also part of the MT milieu. Maybe some of these polities escaped the devastation of the virus either by powering down ahead of time (eg, Candles Against the Night, or someone who was sufficiently high enough in INI or the research community or a system that was really isolated --although, that makes it unlikely to be high tech unless it was non-Imperial). Or perhaps...there are civilizations that would either not suffer from a full scale vampire invasion, remember, GDW wanted the virus to be used sparingly. Or better yet, make tribute to one of the systems dominated by the Virus. One could also speculated that the further you got from the Virus centres eg. Sol. Rim, Black Curtain. The weaker it actually got, because if we assume that the virus is some sort of insane machine life...rather than a psionic entity then it will have centres of power which it might pay homage to. It was already eluded that the ships tend to go to the chips homeworld.

I am sure any much of reasonable intelligent PCs could also figure out a way to by-pass their computer (just I disconnected the spedometer on a rental). If they saw that their ship was "turning" against them.

Lastly, there is no reason why the factions do not still carry on the fight even after the death of their leaders. Crusty generals and admirals who want see their side win just would degenerate into warlords and TEDs.


The Hard Times milieu provides lots of opportunity for greater adventures. I think the secret with the Rebellion milieu is to think big but act small.

 

[kafka47]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Takei:
I'd be interested in this as long as it was updated to include ALL of the errata. If it came out and I bought a copy only to find errata as included documents on the CD I'd be seriously annoyed.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Marc did not mention whether it would simply scans (read: complete with errata) or that erratia free version that is somewhere out there on the web.

Many people mention they have been in contact with RS. How does one do it. All the time his email keeps changing. Pity we won't see AM3&4.

 

[J]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kafka47:
Yes, this is cannon history but surely one can always play outside of cannon.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course you can play outside of the cannon history. Traveller has always encouraged games to take their own course, the history provided in sourcebooks should be taken as a suggestion, not set in stone.

Gurps traveller breaks from the cannon history. Why not change the rebellion, or at least consider a few "what if" situations. What would have happened if the Moot had recognised Lucan and he managed to defeat Dulinor. What would the imperium be like? Well the Brothers Varian may still exists and the Vargr may still invade corridor and cut Norris off.

Just don't expect eveyone else to follow the same heresy

J.

 

[aramis]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by J:
What would have happened if the Moot had recognised Lucan and he managed to defeat Dulinor. What would the imperium be like? Well the Brothers Varian may still exists and the Vargr may still invade corridor and cut Norris off.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If Varian still exists, Lucan's SOL... as Varian is the older.

If Lucan manages to get confirmed, well, I've enough jackbooted thugs IMTU without Lucan adding more.

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-aramis
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Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!

 

[J]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aramis:
If Varian still exists, Lucan's SOL... as Varian is the older.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not Varian, I was talking about "The Brothers Varian" the terrorist organisation, theres a page on them in the rebellion source book.

Hmmm, what about if Varian did survive? what would have happened then?

J.

 

[kafka47]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by J:
Hmmm, what about if Varian did survive? what would have happened then?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I speculate that his side would stand for the moral revulsion of the whole war effort and actively bomb all sides in order to stop the maddness of the killing. If you have seen the film Underground, this is best played out as the character Blacky at the end. Turning the logic of war against war into war against all.

But, imagine how much fun one could have as Varian as a free agent. All the intelligence agencies trying to capture him to make him their poster boy. Lucan, trying, to protray himself according to the official history as a hero. The Vilani trying to prove that Vilani blood ought to rule the Imperium. Similarly, the Sols making the same claim. Norris actively seeking a vestige of the glory that no longer is. This idea has potential...

Although, for me, I might, if I get a campaign restarted in the MT milieu have it, that Varian's clone survived in a mental hospital and is possibly slightly unbalanced...