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Making heads and tails out of Imperial nobility

The sector duke plays the subsector dukes in order to maintain their own position.

Communication time makes these Machiavellian plots a bit limited since it could take months for a sector duke to receive word about what a distant subsector duke is up to...

To move this up to the domain scale you are talking many months for an archduke to get updates on the sector dukes and the subsector dukes...

the Emperor only finds out years later.
 
I should also add that the above, while it still applies somewhat, is not totally going to be the case with knights. They're the lowest rung on the nobility ladder, and unless they are knighted by family relations or something like that, the politics and such don't fully apply to them. They're like ensigns or second lieutenants and not worthy of a lot of notice by the nobility--yet. If, on the other hand, you roll up the character as a noble out-of-the-box, then I can assume that your family are somebodies and there are higher nobles in your house and family name. That means all of the above apply and you, being a relative nobody, are a target for rival noble houses.

Let's say you did that (roll up out of the gate as a noble) and you are from a well-known and connected House. The way I'd play that on you is you land on Swamplandia a backwater with a baron running it. He wants to gain status so he connives to get you in a situation where you are either going to prison for like forever and disgraced or you're marrying his butt ugly daughter who thinks she's a princess. Damned if you do, damned if you don't...
 
I should also add that the above, while it still applies somewhat, is not totally going to be the case with knights. They're the lowest rung on the nobility ladder, and unless they are knighted by family relations or something like that, the politics and such don't fully apply to them.
Having tried to play a noble in @Grav_Moped 's PBP game, I rolled up a noble career and mustered out after 1 term (at age 22) as a Baroness (Social: C) ... I realized that there needed to be some sort of "rhyme or reason" link to the nobility assigned to The Map™.

The way that I interpreted all of that was to postulate that ONLY the people "doing the Noble career path" were actually Nobles "in post" assigned to specific worlds. Therefore, the social standing B+ was not something exclusive to the "ruling class" (so to speak).
  • Social: B = Knights ... 1 post per world.
  • Social: C = Barons ... 1 post per rich or agricultural world.
  • Social: D = Marquis ... 1 post per local cluster of worlds, one of which needs to be high population.
  • Social: E = Count ... 1 post per industrial world.
  • Social: F = Duke ... 1 post per subsector.
The idea being that there will of course be a lot more people with Social: B+ than there are "positions" for people with such social standing to fill, hence why only those on the Noble career path get assigned to posts for specific worlds/fiefs as the Emperor's representative to that world government.

The important point here is that the "local noble(s)" do not RULE over worlds directly (as petty tyrants, per se). Instead, the local noble(s) are more like "ambassadors" from the Imperium to each of the worlds within the polity, since each world is autonomously governed by their own domestic politics.

The entire game of You Need To Know Who's Who In Order To Know What's What is really more of a "parlour game" in noble society, because there are ups and downs, entries and exits from the scene, happening all the time. Some people on the Noble career path start out as a Knight ... and they never get "promoted" to Baron, even after a lifetime of service. Some people get posted to a particular world, but then for whatever reason decide that "the job" just isn't really for them and they muster out from the career path.



MOST of the time, "ordinary" Travellers aren't going to have much to do with the nobility (except when the situation calls for it during a scenario or an ongoing campaign). Nobles are kind of like the "celebrities" of the Third Imperium. It's a bit like "big Hollywood names" or influential politicians. Sure, most people have HEARD of them and quite a few people know who they are ... but how many Big Names™ have you actually met in person (let alone hung out with or gone on adventures with?).

For example, I know who Johnny Depp is ... but I've never met him in person.
I know who my US Congressman is ... and have actually met him, in person, TWICE in my lifetime ... but both interactions were brief (and years apart).



The way I see it, the "job" of Nobles (on the career path) is to represent the Emperor to their (respective) constituency worlds, where their fiefs are, and to engage in interstellar diplomacy on behalf of their world(s) to advance their fortunes. In some ways, it's kind of a glorified Public Relations job ... just with a lot more loyalty oaths and greater responsibility for outcomes.



The fact that the nobility of the Third Imperium is NOT extensively detailed is something of a blessing in disguise. As mentioned upthread, it means that Referees (and other creators) can "slot in" whatever types of personalities into the nobles in their campaign that they want, as needed. Under most nominal circumstances, that will probably "never" be necessary.
while it still applies somewhat, is not totally going to be the case with knights. They're the lowest rung on the nobility ladder
Landed Knights are literally as common as mainworlds.
There's nothing "particularly special" about them ... other than the fact that they're Social: B, while "domestic world nobility" are Social: A. It's a more exclusive club than the social elites of a particular world, but that's because you're switching from the "planetary pool" (Social: 1-A) to the "interplanetary pool" (Social: B-F) ... and yes, being a Knight is the lowest rung of that social ladder on the interstellar scale.

Going from Social: A to Social: B is a bit like going from being a high school senior to a college freshman.
You move from being on top of a small pool (the high school) to being at the bottom of a larger pool (an entire college).
You move from having hundreds of peers (high school) to having (tens of) thousands of peers (college).
And not everyone is an Honors Student every single time.
Not everyone BURNS with ambition, or reaches for Fame & Glory. Some people are celebrities, while others are wallflowers.

And nobles in post can "retire" from the career path, letting someone else move in to take their place/posting.
And some LUCKY FEW get PROMOTED to higher postings ... and someone else needs to move in to take the place/post that they have to vacate due to getting promoted.



The way I see it, any character that during CharGen takes the Noble career path need to successfully roll for Position before they get assigned a posting as a landed Imperial Noble. Until then, you're basically "staff" to some other noble who is actually in post. Until you successfully roll Position, you're basically an "apprentice" noble, learning the ropes (so to speak). To continue the knight analogy, you're basically a page/squire until you roll Position, in the role of staffer to some other noble on the career path.



Hope that (loose) perspective on the structure of the nobility helps. 😅
 
Having tried to play a noble in @Grav_Moped 's PBP game, I rolled up a noble career and mustered out after 1 term (at age 22) as a Baroness (Social: C) ... I realized that there needed to be some sort of "rhyme or reason" link to the nobility assigned to The Map™.

The way that I interpreted all of that was to postulate that ONLY the people "doing the Noble career path" were actually Nobles "in post" assigned to specific worlds. Therefore, the social standing B+ was not something exclusive to the "ruling class" (so to speak).
  • Social: B = Knights ... 1 post per world.
  • Social: C = Barons ... 1 post per rich or agricultural world.
  • Social: D = Marquis ... 1 post per local cluster of worlds, one of which needs to be high population.
  • Social: E = Count ... 1 post per industrial world.
  • Social: F = Duke ... 1 post per subsector.
The idea being that there will of course be a lot more people with Social: B+ than there are "positions" for people with such social standing to fill, hence why only those on the Noble career path get assigned to posts for specific worlds/fiefs as the Emperor's representative to that world government.

The important point here is that the "local noble(s)" do not RULE over worlds directly (as petty tyrants, per se). Instead, the local noble(s) are more like "ambassadors" from the Imperium to each of the worlds within the polity, since each world is autonomously governed by their own domestic politics.

The entire game of You Need To Know Who's Who In Order To Know What's What is really more of a "parlour game" in noble society, because there are ups and downs, entries and exits from the scene, happening all the time. Some people on the Noble career path start out as a Knight ... and they never get "promoted" to Baron, even after a lifetime of service. Some people get posted to a particular world, but then for whatever reason decide that "the job" just isn't really for them and they muster out from the career path.



MOST of the time, "ordinary" Travellers aren't going to have much to do with the nobility (except when the situation calls for it during a scenario or an ongoing campaign). Nobles are kind of like the "celebrities" of the Third Imperium. It's a bit like "big Hollywood names" or influential politicians. Sure, most people have HEARD of them and quite a few people know who they are ... but how many Big Names™ have you actually met in person (let alone hung out with or gone on adventures with?).

For example, I know who Johnny Depp is ... but I've never met him in person.
I know who my US Congressman is ... and have actually met him, in person, TWICE in my lifetime ... but both interactions were brief (and years apart).



The way I see it, the "job" of Nobles (on the career path) is to represent the Emperor to their (respective) constituency worlds, where their fiefs are, and to engage in interstellar diplomacy on behalf of their world(s) to advance their fortunes. In some ways, it's kind of a glorified Public Relations job ... just with a lot more loyalty oaths and greater responsibility for outcomes.



The fact that the nobility of the Third Imperium is NOT extensively detailed is something of a blessing in disguise. As mentioned upthread, it means that Referees (and other creators) can "slot in" whatever types of personalities into the nobles in their campaign that they want, as needed. Under most nominal circumstances, that will probably "never" be necessary.

Landed Knights are literally as common as mainworlds.
Going from Social: A to Social: B is a bit like going from being a high school senior to a college freshman.
Not everyone BURNS with ambition, or reaches for Fame & Glory. Some people are celebrities, while others are wallflowers.

I see it quite differently. First, nobles are not something transitory for the most part. The ones that really count are long-lived families (Houses) that have real clout and power at some level be it a world, a subsector, sector, or domain.

At the domain level, the various Houses vie, to a degree, for the title and role of emperor. This is the level of rarified politics and beyond a Traveller rpg game for the most part.

Each noble House is not some small entity. They are extended families and take things like having heirs and their familial relations very seriously. Each House can also be either a general sort of nobility, usually "old money" if you will that has been around forever and isn't going anywhere. They may be ambitious, or they may just be very cautious clinging to their wealth and power as it exists and not letting it slip away.

Or, Houses can be specialized. They can be politically oriented, or maybe militaristic. They can also be economic like Delgado or Ling where they control a megacorporation, or other large business entity. So, you could have a House renowned for its military prowess and producing generals or admirals for the Empire. A business House runs a major corporation and has serious economic clout. They are listened to on things like economic policy, trade with other polities, and the like. The political houses run the Empire, but they have to have military and economic support from those types of Houses to do it.

That's why who you are related to matters. If you are a character who is a B (knight), it could well be you are progeny of a family in a Soc D House (your uncle) that is Soc C (eg., daddy is a baron). You aren't THE baron, but as his spawn you are closely related and possibly the next heir.

If you were say, a C or D, you could potentially be the ruler of a single world with a lower population. On the other hand, if you were nobility by military achievement and from a military House, you would be seen as a rising star in running major military operations for the emperor or some high ranked duke.

A standalone might be a B or C ranked academic noble who has achieved great success in their field. The noble title is granted to you and you alone. Military nobility can be the same way. You got knighted or a barony because you were a standout as a military leader. Again, the title lives and dies with you.

This makes your backstory as a noble critical even in terms of a rpg as a character. You are NEVER a nobody if you are a noble. When you start out as a noble, I'd think you are from some House and got that title at 18 because of your family as you have no personal successes to warrant getting it otherwise.

The character you mention, a baronesss, at 22 could have married into nobility. That means the character is attached to a House of one sort or another.
And nobles in post can "retire" from the career path, letting someone else move in to take their place/posting.
And some LUCKY FEW get PROMOTED to higher postings ... and someone else needs to move in to take the place/post that they have to vacate due to getting promoted.

I don't see that. If you have the title--that is, you are the one with the title, not just related--then you can either abdicate (big issue) or you die in with it and it only then goes to the next in line to inherit it. If you are related, then depending on your position in the House you might be the next to inherit the higher title. That's something you'd know out of the gate.

The female side of nobility is where most of the upward mobility is. The daughter of a baron is married off to a viscount or marquis, and her family's status is elevated. To marry 'down' is to be a disgrace to your family or to be of no importance to it. Females who aren't to inherit or are not in the immediate line of succession are married off to Houses that their House wants to have greater influence with.
The way I see it, any character that during CharGen takes the Noble career path need to successfully roll for Position before they get assigned a posting as a landed Imperial Noble. Until then, you're basically "staff" to some other noble who is actually in post. Until you successfully roll Position, you're basically an "apprentice" noble, learning the ropes (so to speak). To continue the knight analogy, you're basically a page/squire until you roll Position, in the role of staffer to some other noble on the career path.

Hope that (loose) perspective on the structure of the nobility helps. 😅
The noble path in CharGen simply means YOU have the actual title and are not just a relation to it within a noble House. You are either the title holder or the immediate heir to that title. You are NOT "staff." You are either the noble in question or being groomed to be the noble of that House. Your job is to learn to be a noble but also prove you can do the job. In the case where you're the actual noble, that means you might have inherited the position unexpectedly like a death from combat, assassination, or disease taking the holder's life early. A "boy king" of sorts.

I'd also add, that if you are such a noble, you better act the part or there will be consequences, and they will be serious.
 
There are names here on CotI for the sector Dukes and a few others in Verge Sector. The version here is for 1116. I've backdated them to 1105 for the wiki.

I have a list for Fornast that I need to update. The Fornast list was done as part of the "lab work" to understand Marc's vision of the Nobles in T5. The Nobles articles in Imperiallines 7 & 8 were the (so far only) published result of that.

MegaTraveller material gave us a number of Sector Dukes, Archdukes, and a few others. GURPS a few more. Rob added a number of the Dukes of Deneb in his MGT1e sector book, though I don't know how many survived the transit to 2e.
(Put away that banjo and let Waylon Jennings sleep, you.)

The "problem" that has led to this is that Traveller's setting materials have frequently been written to the two extremes of scale. While that has given us some grand histories and the machinations of individuals, matters of State have generally been viewed from too far away, the players of the Great Game obscured and anonymous. We know of Archduke Brzk, but not of his subsector Dukes, how they reacted to his political maneuvers, nor the consequences to them of those actions. We know of Archduke Dulinor, but not of the likely studied "turnover" of his Dukes to set up his plans for 1116; Ilelish Sector was likely a bad place to be important in during the 1100s and 1110s...

Heck, you have to dive *deep* to figure out what all of Norris' Titles mean, though I think they were finally spelled out in GT.
 
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