Law and Communication

[DangerousThing]

And even today on the most modern sea going ships known to humankind we still have ships loose people. It happens and that isn't because we spaced some one on purpose, it's because space like the sea is very unforgiving of stupid or not paying attention to details.

True. I believe that Heinlein said "Stupidity is the only universal capital crime." Probably from the notebooks of Lazarus Long.

So, I stand by my statement, the Captain is the Law when at Sea. And yes he will have to answer for his or his delegates' actions but unless he has a habit of sloppily offing the wrong people spacing one murdering jewel thief with a record and a body is probably going to the Captain's favor.

I think the captain being "The Law" while at sea is something that is a long time gone, but I'm too tired to look up the legalities of this. I may very well be wrong; it's happened a few times before.

However, IMTU, in the Phoenix Empire, the captain is not a law enforcement agent, and cannot deal out justice by killing people. He can, if he has some evidence, lock them up or put them into low passage.

However, this will have to be justified to a review board when he gets to a starport and it will at least delay his next trip and might have more serious charges depending on what happened.

Now, killing mutineers or pirates is most likely self defense. Killing a jewel thief is a bit out of line, though locking her up would be acceptable.

And if the captain of the ship is a noble, then he might have the right of middle justice. Though again, he will still have to go through the review board.
-
Jay

 

[jshiggin]

And now the characters have to prove they are not guilty by finding the real guilty party.

Somehow, I missed the part where the characters had any need whatsoever to find the real guilty party. Security hauled off their employer, so they have to find the real guilty party? Why not just sit back, wait for the ship to land, let the real police handle it?

 

[jshiggin]

spacing one murdering jewel thief with a record and a body is probably going to the Captain's favor.

Do note that the hypothetical "murdering jewel thief doesn't actually have a record. The police have suspected her several times, but have yet to prove anything. Which amounts to nothing more than tabloid fodder...

 

[rancke]

Do note that the hypothetical "murdering jewel thief doesn't actually have a record. The police have suspected her several times, but have yet to prove anything. Which amounts to nothing more than tabloid fodder...

Unless Imperial law is radically different from what we're used to in modern democratic societies (or authoritarian regimes of the Age of Sail for that matter), The captain would be in trouble even if there was a record. Someone may be a murdering jewel thief, but unless he was a clear and present danger to the safety of innocent people, it's not the captain's job to punish him. Governments tend to be jealous of their monopoly of law enforcement and very intolerant of vigilantism. They don't like it when civilians play judge and executioner.

If the Imperium practices proscription, a civilian would be able to kill someone on the proscription lists, but he'd still do well to keep the body with him to prove to the authorities that the person he killed was actually someone from the list.

If the space walker doesn't even have a record, I don't see any reason why the captain won't be up against murder charges.


Hans

 

[aramis]

Unless Imperial law is radically different from what we're used to in modern democratic societies (or authoritarian regimes of the Age of Sail for that matter), The captain would be in trouble even if there was a record. Someone may be a murdering jewel thief, but unless he was a clear and present danger to the safety of innocent people, it's not the captain's job to punish him. Governments tend to be jealous of their monopoly of law enforcement and very intolerant of vigilantism. They don't like it when civilians play judge and executioner.

Hans

we know that the 3I allows local law of registry to be enforced aboard ships. (It's mentioned in a couple sources.) So, if the port of registry allows executing any felons, the captain can do so once a crime is committed. (At present, it actually does work that way aboard ship, as well - but few nations allow captains to execute crew, let alone passengers, having actual laws against same.)

We also know that MANY worlds in the imperium are religious dictatorships on par with radical islamist states, or worse, but with the tech to actually get the right people.

Blasphemy aboard ship may be an execution offense... on some ships.

 

[rancke]

we know that the 3I allows local law of registry to be enforced aboard ships. (It's mentioned in a couple sources.)

Where?

So, if the port of registry allows executing any felons, the captain can do so once a crime is committed. (At present, it actually does work that way aboard ship, as well - but few nations allow captains to execute crew, let alone passengers, having actual laws against same.)

There's also the quite likely possibility of a mixture of Imperial law and local law of registry; that local law of registry apply unless contrary to Imperial law.

We also know that MANY worlds in the imperium are religious dictatorships on par with radical islamist states, or worse, but with the tech to actually get the right people.

Many worlds in and out of the Imperium, yes. In fact, exactly the same proportion inside and outside the Imperium. But that's by the way.

Blasphemy aboard ship may be an execution offense... on some ships.

All that is true, but it doesn't address my main argument: That governments tend to frown on civilians infringing on their prerogatives, among which the right to punish malefactors. This applies to religious dictatorships just as much as to any other form of government. Just because blasphemy is an offence punishable with death doesn't automatically mean that ship captains are authorized to cast the first stone, or indeed any stone.


Hans

 

[Whipsnade]

I'm answering this one first because I view it as an attack on MTU.

It wasn't an "attack" on YTU. I was unaware that you were talking about YTU because the usual IMTU tags were missing in your posts.

Quite frankly, I've read little of your descriptions of YTU because those descriptions haven't interested me. That's not an attack either, it's merely an opinion.