Knowledges? Burden?

[SpaceBadger]

I don't have T5 yet, and won't have it until it is available in PDF, but am trying to follow along w some of the T5 discussions. There are a couple of new concepts that I am not quite grokking: Knowledges and Burden.

Knowledges seem similar to Skills but different?

At first I thought that Burden was simply a measure of encumbrance as related to weapons and equipment, but lately I have seen the term used in connection with a ship in a way that seems to indicate I was wrong about that.

Could someone kindly explain these two terms for me?

Thanks.

 

[LiminalMask]

I don't have T5 yet, and won't have it until it is available in PDF, but am trying to follow along w some of the T5 discussions. There are a couple of new concepts that I am not quite grokking: Knowledges and Burden.

Knowledges seem similar to Skills but different?

At first I thought that Burden was simply a measure of encumbrance as related to weapons and equipment, but lately I have seen the term used in connection with a ship in a way that seems to indicate I was wrong about that.

Could someone kindly explain these two terms for me?

Thanks.

Knowledges are similar to Skills, and the two often go hand in hand and can each help with different die rolls. There are a fixed number of Skills in T5. (64) There are potentially unlimited number of knowledges. Sometimes, Knowledges are a 'subgroup' of a skill. I.e. "Animals" is a skill. "Rider" or "Teamster" is a Knowledge. "Fighter" is a skill (refers to the ability to perform personal combat of all sorts), where "Beams" is a knowledge (the ability to use laser weaponry.) Other times, Knowledges represent a body of learning and understanding that is not necessarily directly linked to a skill, but your character might have it. (The Sciences for example, are Knowledges, but there isn't a "Science" skill. Likewise, if you spend time in the Navy, you might gain the "Navy" knowledge, reflecting your knowledge of how the Navy operates, is organized, and gets things done.)

Burden, is part of QREBS. QREBS is a game mechanic that allows you to modify any item--from starships to spanners--according to 5 different statistics and thus, make the item more or less effective. (Quality, Reliability, Ease of Use, Burden (or Bulk), and Safety.) Burden is "Burden measures the difficulty of carrying or transporting using a piece of equipment. It expresses ergonomic fitness for transport or manipulation. Alternatively, it measures the bulk or unwieldiness of an object." Burden ranges from -5 to 5. The lower the burden, then less the object 'seems' to weigh. Does that answer your question?

 

[robject]

Something I would like to know is: what does Burden mean when applied to a Jump Drive?

 

[SanDragon]

A press of a button versus a smack with the palm of your hand versus a slam with a spanner to get it to work?

 

[robject]

That sounds like ergonomics or Ease Of Use (E). But, it could have a burdensome aspect. "The rheostat-bolts on these controls are beautifully tuned, and ergonomically designed to please the eye, and the spanner used to adjust the drive is a coveted piece of equipment. However, turning the bolts requires considerable force..."

 

[LiminalMask]

Something I would like to know is: what does Burden mean when applied to a Jump Drive?

It could weigh more. The QREBS chapter talks about 1 BUR=1 kg on personal items, but what's a few kg on a 10-ton J Drive? Maybe it's a percentage of standard weight? 10% per point? Alternatively, maybe it takes up more space (tons) per point, eating into cargo space? ( or the reverse, for low B)

 

[Reban]

Something I would like to know is: what does Burden mean when applied to a Jump Drive?

I'm thinking high Burden would mean a more massive drive. Same volume tonnage but some component is built with heavier engineering or materials. Likewise lower Burden would have less massive components, maybe a "lightened array support cross member and extensive use of foamed composites are the hallmark of the Zing LLC Mark xxx-3x Jumpdrive.


There might also be a deckplan application for Burden. A high burden might mean the Jumpdrive is spread over two decks or requires the Engineer to climb a ladder onto a gantry to access important parts of the drive. Low burden might have all the control panels and controls in one of those nice close little triangles that kitchen design is based on, you know where appliances are placed that means the minimum amount of movement between them for the person cooking.


That's ergonomics; how much though has been put into how the sophont interacts with the object which in my head is slightly different to ease of use.

 

[BytePro]

Oh, J-Drives should definitely have a Bulk rating... for when PCs attempt sneaking the stolen J-Drive across the docking bay and installing it in their own ship!

Actually, G-Lifters could make it a one man job when it comes to mass, but they will be slowed down or stopped if the space available requires a lot of maneuvering to fit the drive between and around gantry cranes, girders, docking tubes, cargo sleds, sleeping guards, etc.

[IMO, Burden may relate directly to mass, but Bulk relates more to how the mass is distributed with respect to the difficulty of moving said mass - ex: ski's can be difficult to run with thru a crowded mall, especially if held only from an end rather than in the middle; modern sofas are not that heavy, but manipulating them up several flights of switchback stairs is generally time consuming. Note, I do not have T5.]

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Me too.

I'm thinking high Burden would mean a more massive drive. Same volume tonnage but some component is built with heavier engineering or materials. Likewise lower Burden would have less massive components, maybe a "lightened array support cross member and extensive use of foamed composites are the hallmark of the Zing LLC Mark xxx-3x Jumpdrive.


There might also be a deckplan application for Burden. A high burden might mean the Jumpdrive is spread over two decks or requires the Engineer to climb a ladder onto a gantry to access important parts of the drive. Low burden might have all the control panels and controls in one of those nice close little triangles that kitchen design is based on, you know where appliances are placed that means the minimum amount of movement between them for the person cooking.


That's ergonomics; how much though has been put into how the sophont interacts with the object which in my head is slightly different to ease of use.

that is pretty much my view too. Basically, the higher the Burden the more it has odd fittings that stick out and badly placed access panels and the like.

Ease of Use is more software oriented, Burden is more hardware related in my head.

 

[Murdoc]

Not to me. Ease of Use can apply to a hammer, no software there. To me, B is also Bulk, and that means size. It seems perfectly reasonable to me that a badly designed jump drive (or whatever) would simply take up more room than a better designed one, even if there is no provision for such in the rules right now. It makes more sense to me than playing these words games trying to figure out ways of redefining it, so it looks like an omission. Just my view anyway.

 

[warwizard]

From a ship design basis I'm advocating applying burden for a jump drive as in increase or decrease in the standard volume by 10 % per level with a minimum size = to the minimum size in the Drive formulae table p.337 .

A J-Drive A (J-Drive 9 ULT) Has a minimum size of 10 and thus even though you have the ult mod -4 on burden, it's still going to be 10 tons displacement, while Drive D is 25 tons and would take up 15 tons displacement as a 9 ult with a burden of -4.

The Experimental Hop -14 drive D (Burden MOD +3) is going to take up 32.5 tons instead of 25 (and would need to be fitted into Hull B or less to work at all).

 

[Reban]

Not to me. Ease of Use can apply to a hammer, no software there. To me, B is also Bulk, and that means size. It seems perfectly reasonable to me that a badly designed jump drive (or whatever) would simply take up more room than a better designed one, even if there is no provision for such in the rules right now. It makes more sense to me than playing these words games trying to figure out ways of redefining it, so it looks like an omission. Just my view anyway.

Well its not playing with words to redefine it because these words are in the description.

I do agree with you about ease of use not simply being about software. Its about the interface, in your example thats the handle of the hammer.


I have an example: The Skateboard

A skateboard is very low in bulk but it has poor ease of use. It masses very little and all you have to do to use it is stand on it, but to use it effectively ie. make it move at speed and do tricks with it, you are required to shift your weight and center of balance. effective use of a skateboard requires some skill. Very good ease-of-use should mean an object requires little skill.

 

[Reban]

From a ship design basis I'm advocating applying burden for a jump drive as in increase or decrease in the standard volume by 10 % per level with a minimum size = to the minimum size in the Drive formulae table p.337 .

A J-Drive A (J-Drive 9 ULT) Has a minimum size of 10 and thus even though you have the ult mod -4 on burden, it's still going to be 10 tons displacement, while Drive D is 25 tons and would take up 15 tons displacement as a 9 ult with a burden of -4.

The Experimental Hop -14 drive D (Burden MOD +3) is going to take up 32.5 tons instead of 25 (and would need to be fitted into Hull B or less to work at all).

I can't find any reference to including QREBS in the formulas on p337.

You should take a look at the table on p500 that shows how volume is affected by Stage Effects.

I'd council against modifying volume by a second modifier thats not in the rules because it might make it difficult to port your ships into other peoples TU. But if it's IYTU exclusively then there'd be no problem.

 

[warwizard]

I can't find any reference to including QREBS in the formulas on p337.

You should take a look at the table on p500 that shows how volume is affected by Stage Effects.

I'd council against modifying volume by a second modifier thats not in the rules because it might make it difficult to port your ships into other peoples TU. But if it's IYTU exclusively then there'd be no problem.

Ok that's a much more severe change, the Experimental Hop drive D will have a base size of 75 tons without regard to burden, for 37.5% of your ship's volume assumming hull B as noted above. Better get a top of the line corporation to do your prototyping, get that drive downsized some:
Corp burden mod -3 + EXP Burden mod +3 + Flux (hope for a good flux roll).