kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Because the gravitic and jumpspace conditions change from hour to hour and require readings on the spot right before jump.
Is that true? I dunno.
Does it NEED to be true? Up to OP.
Jumping like it's 1977
- Thread starter BwapTED
- Start date
Because the gravitic and jumpspace conditions change from hour to hour and require readings on the spot right before jump.
Is that true? I dunno.
Does it NEED to be true? Up to OP.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
No it isn't. You can handwave such stuff as the reasons but real world science is pretty good at calculating orbits, gravitational tidal effects etc.
Nope, if that's the way things are done in someone's game then fair enough. I just wanted to point out the consequences of changing the underlying assumptions.
If I can think it, players in the game can think it and you may have to have an answer.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Newtonian motion sure.
<Puts on TL9 space brain hat>
But you don't know how to build antigrav modules or use gravitic fusion containment or the underlying principles or even where the missing mass of the universe is, do you?
So you don't know about the constantly shifting substrate of gravitic eddies, unimportant for a planet, critical for a ship executing exit from normalspace.
TL 8.2, it's like bear skin and stone knives around here!
It may be that the calculations involved in any jump involve many minute adjustments based on radiation levels and fluctuations in the local fabric of space-time.
You can't do those calculations in port because you cannot take the jump point measurements in port.
If so, how can jump casettes exist?
They not only canot make those last minute calculations, but don't know when they will be used...
That's part of why you still need a pilot/navigator, and it still takes a week.
Then what are those jump casettes for?
As I said, I have no access to 77 version, but when I've read about them latter, they seem to substitute the navigator for a single specific jump...
One possibility:
The jump cassettes include information about the route/making the jump between systems.
But they don't include the time-sensitive, variable information that has to be gathered, analyzed, and plugged into the jump drive and computers on the spot.
And they certainly don't sub for the other work involved in making a jump.
Having the jump cassettes without doing all the pilot and navigational support and other prep is like trying to go on a road trip with a map, but you forget to bring the keys, you've let the battery die and forgotten to charge it, etc.
You aren't going anywhere.
The jump cassettes include information about the route/making the jump between systems.
But they don't include the time-sensitive, variable information that has to be gathered, analyzed, and plugged into the jump drive and computers on the spot.
And they certainly don't sub for the other work involved in making a jump.
Having the jump cassettes without doing all the pilot and navigational support and other prep is like trying to go on a road trip with a map, but you forget to bring the keys, you've let the battery die and forgotten to charge it, etc.
You aren't going anywhere.
They are essentially flight plans for one specific jump.
With a jump cassette, you don't need to have the generate program on your computer. But, as you note, it's a single use item and only good for a particular route.
One page 32, the book explains how generate works. The pilot or navigator inputs information, and generate creates a flight plan.
To jump, both the jump and navigate programs must be running.
Generate only needs to run long enough to make the flight plan.
(I looked in the 1981 book, and this part is pretty much the same.)
But this doesn't necessarily mean you don't need a navigator, even if he's actually the ship's the pilot filling in.
The book strongly implies unmanned starships are not allowed.
That is, it gives a pilot/navigator requirement for ships of 200 tons and smaller, and requires a pilot and a navigator for larger ships.
So my reading is that the pilot/navigator are doing things during the jump sequence that cannot just be done by software and hardware.
Otherwise, why not automate the whole thing? Spend the space and money that would be used on life support and staterooms on more computer power, weapons, fuel, whatever.
Stick a few robots on board for such tasks as may arise.
This is assuming a fairly high TL, of course.
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mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
CT 77 has jump capable missiles, they are unmanned (I assume, maybe they were removed from the game because they require a crewmember to be strapped to them).
You don't need a navigator on a ship less than 200t.
How boring is it going to be sitting at the jump point (as a sitting duck target waiting for pirates) for a week? Ok, possibly not boring :devil:
You don't need a navigator on a ship less than 200t.
How boring is it going to be sitting at the jump point (as a sitting duck target waiting for pirates) for a week? Ok, possibly not boring :devil:
CT 77 has jump capable missiles, they are unmanned (I assume, maybe they were removed from the game because they require a crewmember to be strapped to them).
You don't need a navigator on a ship less than 200t.
How boring is it going to be sitting at the jump point (as a sitting duck target waiting for pirates) for a week? Ok, possibly not boring :devil:
Ah, but the 1977 rules also specify that the pilot acts as the navigator for those smaller starships, Mike. He can fill in other jobs as needed. So there is still a navigator. Just not a dedicated navigator. The pilot does a dual job.
P 16.
The jump capable missiles for messages are indeed a big question mark, and I think you are spot on as to why they were eliminated.
I've addressed such missiles in my initial post. My take is that they are TL16+ devices, and use a form of built-in AI pilot/navigator.
The AI is a hybrid between jump cassette technology and early forms of ''strong" AI. It gets wiped by the jump, though the hardware might survive and be reprogrammable. I haven't decided on that second point.
But I also really like your crewmembers strapped to the jump torpedo idea. Did you see the Italian WW2 era two-man ''torpedo'' image to which I linked in the other thread?
I like the idea that a TL 17 or higher AI (as it appears on the TL chart in Book 3) can be designed/programmed/taught to be a starship pilot or navigator. Or steward, engineer, etc., for that matter.
Ships with AIs are not really unmanned. They are manned by AIs.
RE sitting ducks
There are several ways to go with this.
The way I read it, you need to fly past 100 diameters to set up a jump(unless you want that whopping -5 DM and a big chance of misjump). I'm not sure anything in the rules suggests you must remain at a particular point in space.
How long range are ship's sensors?
Maybe there's plenty of wiggle room. Measurements can be taken of multiple possible jump points in the general area (leaving that vague for now) but not within 100 diameters. Too much gravitational distortion, perhaps.
But, yes, remaining in real-space for a week, past 100 diameters, does mean that pirates may catch ships before jump is completed.
It also suggests space battles not set up by mutual agreement will be more common.
Navy ships can also catch pirates and enemy navy vessels before they jump out of system.
Space patrols/navies may use q ships pretty often. Go out past 100 dees, send out false signals that make it look like you are prepping a jump, and wait for the pirates to come sniffing.
Pirates may be a serious threat. But doesn't that tend to mesh well with the encounter charts in the '77 rules?
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Oh, and I think prize money and bounties on pirates will be part of my ATU.
My guess is that pirate vessels are usually skips, hijacked starships, rogue military vessels full of deserters, or enemy commerce raiders.
In any of those cases, it seems likely someone will likely pay you good money for capturing a pirate vessel, even one that's pretty banged up. The bank, a world gov't, an empire, etc.
And if nobody pays, maybe you can sell the salvaged parts.
If the ship actually still works, now...
Hunting pirates for fun and profit? You need to be pretty bold to do this.
My guess is that pirate vessels are usually skips, hijacked starships, rogue military vessels full of deserters, or enemy commerce raiders.
In any of those cases, it seems likely someone will likely pay you good money for capturing a pirate vessel, even one that's pretty banged up. The bank, a world gov't, an empire, etc.
And if nobody pays, maybe you can sell the salvaged parts.
If the ship actually still works, now...
Hunting pirates for fun and profit? You need to be pretty bold to do this.
In game terms:
The Cassette plus navigator means not having to run the Generate program, but you still must run both Jump and Navigate to use the course, whether it's on cassette or from the generate program
A jump cassette (not Jump Tape, as Mike likes to point out) simply means the ship doesn't need to run the Generate program in order to jump.
The Cassette plus navigator means not having to run the Generate program, but you still must run both Jump and Navigate to use the course, whether it's on cassette or from the generate program
Cassettes now make me giggle. Reminds me of TRS-80 Model 1 with tape cassette drive.
And a whopping 16K of memory.
You're lucky. You had the upgrade model. The one in our high school computer lab only had 4K and was on the other side of the punch card machines.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Much more fun if astronavigation is a proscribed skill and profession
Or, ala, Fading Suns or Wing Commander] must have a psychic component when performed by individuals...
D.
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